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Right ... Champions League is back tomorrow and you may not agree we do have a few positives to look at:

Let's begin with this ... and it's not my own theory, but been stuck in my head since I heard a fellow blue call on talksport and give them their own medicine as the jokers were going on and on about City and Mancini being poor in Europe. He simply said, replace Man United or Chelsea or Arsenal with us in this group and tell me where would they end ... and for a good 5 seconds there was a silence on air. Surely they'd get thrashed beyond imagination by German and Spanish champions both and would be very lucky to get a draw against the Dutch champions as well ... so let's not worry too much about where we stand in our group. Sure, we could have done better and there is no excuse for just losing the whole plot against Ajax there but well this is where we are.

With Mancini already writing this off, there won't be any pressure on our players, and we are at home tomorrow where we are not only unbeaten in the Premier League but also in Europe for some long spell (is it 17 or 18 games now?) ... so I am pretty upbeat about our chances of taking all three points tomorrow.

Question is what would be good for us in the other game? Ajax beating Dortmund at home? That could make the last round of games real interesting as all four teams could potentially end up with 8 points each. But more importantly, it would give Ajax something to play really hard for against Real in their last game.

Europa League anyone? I know most of you are of the opinion (gathered from various comments in other posts) that we should just forget that and come fourth in this group and avoid Thursday nights altogether to focus purely on the League and the FA Cup this year ... but I think we should really go for it. Not just another trophy but will help our European co-eff. Just look at Atletico Madrid and Athletic Bilbao's co-eff how it has gone over the last two years. Else, we will continue to get shitty groups in CL ... plus who doesn't fancy watching a few extra City games this year? ... and we surely have the squad to cope with all three.

AG7 wrote:Right ... Champions League is back tomorrow and you may not agree we do have a few positives to look at:

Let's begin with this ... and it's not my own theory, but been stuck in my head since I heard a fellow blue call on talksport and give them their own medicine as the jokers were going on and on about City and Mancini being poor in Europe. He simply said, replace Man United or Chelsea or Arsenal with us in this group and tell me where would they end ... and for a good 5 seconds there was a silence on air. Surely they'd get thrashed beyond imagination by German and Spanish champions both and would be very lucky to get a draw against the Dutch champions as well ... so let's not worry too much about where we stand in our group. Sure, we could have done better and there is no excuse for just losing the whole plot against Ajax there but well this is where we are.

With Mancini already writing this off, there won't be any pressure on our players, and we are at home tomorrow where we are not only unbeaten in the Premier League but also in Europe for some long spell (is it 17 or 18 games now?) ... so I am pretty upbeat about our chances of taking all three points tomorrow.

Question is what would be good for us in the other game? Ajax beating Dortmund at home? That could make the last round of games real interesting as all four teams could potentially end up with 8 points each. But more importantly, it would give Ajax something to play really hard for against Real in their last game.

Europa League anyone? I know most of you are of the opinion (gathered from various comments in other posts) that we should just forget that and come fourth in this group and avoid Thursday nights altogether to focus purely on the League and the FA Cup this year ... but I think we should really go for it. Not just another trophy but will help our European co-eff. Just look at Atletico Madrid and Athletic Bilbao's co-eff how it has gone over the last two years. Else, we will continue to get shitty groups in CL ... plus who doesn't fancy watching a few extra City games this year? ... and we surely have the squad to cope with all three.

I was of the opinion lets not bother with uefa but am slowly changing my mind the final is in Amsterdam and the whole co-efficient thingy needs upping.

If we don't qualify then of course we should go for the uwaffer thingy. Since when have City fans deemed any european trophy to be beneath us .... tsk

Chinners wrote:If we don't qualify then of course we should go for the uwaffer thingy. Since when have City fans deemed any european trophy to be beneath us .... tsk

If we'd finished 5th, then great, I'd expect us to try and win it. The whole putting the CL failures into it is ridiculous. Added to which, from what I saw of Athletico vs Chelsea, they'd tear us apart.

So I can live without another couple of games at £40 a pop for a tournament even UEFA aren't interested in before getting knocked out just as it was about to become interesting.

Given the choice, I'd rather win the league again and we've all see that Mancini won't/can't concentrate on two competitions at the same time.

We've a big game against Chelsea coming up so tomorrow we should put out a second string team.

That would ruffle a few feathers ....

The coefficient doesn't need upping. Ajax have already dropped way below us and as things stand now, we are 16th out of the teams who made the group stages

Shakhtar and I think it was benfica or Porto are set to lose some really hefty points this season regardless how they do, because of their haul 5 years ago

The issue for us is the 2008/9 season where we got 5 points, vs every other year where we have had 15-20. Once that drops out of the mix in 2014, we will be guarantee 2nd pot so long a we keep qualifying for the groups stage

I reckon we will be about 9 or 10th by then, so a good run in a competition would help push us into the top seeds, but I'm really not arsed as we are always nailed on to get one of barca, real, ac, inter or Munich as first seeds so long as united arsenal and Chelsea are top seeds.

For us of course nothing short of a win will do ... and the bigger the goal difference the better ... Those who can't work out what would be a good result for us in the other game ... when Ajax hosts Dortmund, here are some exciting prospects:

We need a victory by Ajax over Dortmund. Why? If Dortmund can't squeeze a point against Ajax, and we win our game, then City vs. Dortmund in Germany essentially becomes an elimination match. Criteria is away goals between the two head to head first, then goal difference overall, then highest no. of goals scored, and last highest uefa ranking. That's all we can ask for now and hope for at this point from that game. We will be in bigger trouble if Ajax doesn't help us out tomorrow.

Let's also not get caught up in the whole Real Madrid hype. They haven't kept a single clean sheet in four games, and had to scramble from behind in two of the four matches to get results. There's been a lot of goals scored in Group D, and there's only been the one clean sheet in eight matches, and if we (and Joe Hart) can string two together, we'll do ourselves huge favours in GD.

Amazingly, a scenario exists where all four teams in this Group could end up with eight points each. We must win both matches. Dortmund has to lose at Ajax, and then Ajax has to sneak a draw out of Real Madrid. None of this is out of the realm of possibility, but it was also a long shot that City would have two points through four matches before it all began.

The other crazy scenario would see Real Madrid losing both matches, Dortmund beating Ajax and then City finishes second outright. I know, good luck, right?

Anyway, here are ALL the possible scenarios should we win both our games (for the eternal optimists like me):

- Dortmund beat Ajax and Real beat Ajax = BD11, RM10, MC8, A4 ... City finish third
- Dortmund beat Ajax and Real draw with Ajax = BD11, RM8, MC8, A5 ... City finish second if they beat Real by two goals, or one goal if they score four or more in that match, a 3-2 win means they need a better overall goal difference than real (currently need six goal swing)
- Dortmund beat Ajax and Real lose to Ajax = BD11, MC8, RM7, A7 ... City finish second

- Dortmund draw with Ajax and Real beat Ajax = RM10, BD9, MC8, A5 ... City finish third
- Dortmund draw with Ajax and Real draw with Ajax = BD9, RM8, MC8, A6 ... City finish second if they beat Real by two goals, or one goal if they score four or more in that match, a 3-2 win means they need a better overall goal difference than real (currently need six goal swing)
- Dortmund draw with Ajax and Real lose to Ajax = BD9, A8, MC8 RM7 ... City finish third due to Ajax's better head-to-head record

- Dortmund lose to Ajax and Real beat Ajax = RM10, MC8, BD8, A7 ... City finish second due to better head-to-head with Dortmund
- Dortmund lose to Ajax and Real draw with Ajax = MC8, BD8, RM8, A8 ... City's final position determined by goal difference
- Dortmund lose to Ajax and Real lose to Ajax = A10, MC8, BD8, RM7 ... City finish second due to better head-to-head with Dortmund

I cant stand talkshite , but after recieving a text i listend in whilst a few scousers were defending MCFC and our group of death , there opinion being NO British team would get out of it its that tough !

In the cold light of day WE MCFC are playing REAL fuckin MADRID at home in the Champions league and if we win we are still alive !!!!!

Would any of us have dreamt this just 4 or 5 years ago , nevermind 15 - 20 years ago.

AG7 wrote:For us of course nothing short of a win will do ... and the bigger the goal difference the better ... Those who can't work out what would be a good result for us in the other game ... when Ajax hosts Dortmund, here are some exciting prospects:

We need a victory by Ajax over Dortmund. Why? If Dortmund can't squeeze a point against Ajax, and we win our game, then City vs. Dortmund in Germany essentially becomes an elimination match. Criteria is away goals between the two head to head first, then goal difference overall, then highest no. of goals scored, and last highest uefa ranking. That's all we can ask for now and hope for at this point from that game. We will be in bigger trouble if Ajax doesn't help us out tomorrow.

Let's also not get caught up in the whole Real Madrid hype. They haven't kept a single clean sheet in four games, and had to scramble from behind in two of the four matches to get results. There's been a lot of goals scored in Group D, and there's only been the one clean sheet in eight matches, and if we (and Joe Hart) can string two together, we'll do ourselves huge favours in GD.

Amazingly, a scenario exists where all four teams in this Group could end up with eight points each. We must win both matches. Dortmund has to lose at Ajax, and then Ajax has to sneak a draw out of Real Madrid. None of this is out of the realm of possibility, but it was also a long shot that City would have two points through four matches before it all began.

The other crazy scenario would see Real Madrid losing both matches, Dortmund beating Ajax and then City finishes second outright. I know, good luck, right?

Anyway, here are ALL the possible scenarios should we win both our games (for the eternal optimists like me):

- Dortmund beat Ajax and Real beat Ajax = BD11, RM10, MC8, A4 ... City finish third
- Dortmund beat Ajax and Real draw with Ajax = BD11, RM8, MC8, A5 ... City finish second if they beat Real by two goals, or one goal if they score four or more in that match, a 3-2 win means they need a better overall goal difference than real (currently need six goal swing)
- Dortmund beat Ajax and Real lose to Ajax = BD11, MC8, RM7, A7 ... City finish second

- Dortmund draw with Ajax and Real beat Ajax = RM10, BD9, MC8, A5 ... City finish third
- Dortmund draw with Ajax and Real draw with Ajax = BD9, RM8, MC8, A6 ... City finish second if they beat Real by two goals, or one goal if they score four or more in that match, a 3-2 win means they need a better overall goal difference than real (currently need six goal swing)
- Dortmund draw with Ajax and Real lose to Ajax = BD9, A8, MC8 RM7 ... City finish third due to Ajax's better head-to-head record

- Dortmund lose to Ajax and Real beat Ajax = RM10, MC8, BD8, A7 ... City finish second due to better head-to-head with Dortmund
- Dortmund lose to Ajax and Real draw with Ajax = MC8, BD8, RM8, A8 ... City's final position determined by goal difference
- Dortmund lose to Ajax and Real lose to Ajax = A10, MC8, BD8, RM7 ... City finish second due to better head-to-head with Dortmund

Good lad.

AG7 wrote:For us of course nothing short of a win will do ... and the bigger the goal difference the better ... Those who can't work out what would be a good result for us in the other game ... when Ajax hosts Dortmund, here are some exciting prospects:

We need a victory by Ajax over Dortmund. Why? If Dortmund can't squeeze a point against Ajax, and we win our game, then City vs. Dortmund in Germany essentially becomes an elimination match. Criteria is away goals between the two head to head first, then goal difference overall, then highest no. of goals scored, and last highest uefa ranking. That's all we can ask for now and hope for at this point from that game. We will be in bigger trouble if Ajax doesn't help us out tomorrow.

Let's also not get caught up in the whole Real Madrid hype. They haven't kept a single clean sheet in four games, and had to scramble from behind in two of the four matches to get results. There's been a lot of goals scored in Group D, and there's only been the one clean sheet in eight matches, and if we (and Joe Hart) can string two together, we'll do ourselves huge favours in GD.

Amazingly, a scenario exists where all four teams in this Group could end up with eight points each. We must win both matches. Dortmund has to lose at Ajax, and then Ajax has to sneak a draw out of Real Madrid. None of this is out of the realm of possibility, but it was also a long shot that City would have two points through four matches before it all began.

The other crazy scenario would see Real Madrid losing both matches, Dortmund beating Ajax and then City finishes second outright. I know, good luck, right?

Anyway, here are ALL the possible scenarios should we win both our games (for the eternal optimists like me):

- Dortmund beat Ajax and Real beat Ajax = BD11, RM10, MC8, A4 ... City finish third
- Dortmund beat Ajax and Real draw with Ajax = BD11, RM8, MC8, A5 ... City finish second if they beat Real by two goals, or one goal if they score four or more in that match, a 3-2 win means they need a better overall goal difference than real (currently need six goal swing)
- Dortmund beat Ajax and Real lose to Ajax = BD11, MC8, RM7, A7 ... City finish second

- Dortmund draw with Ajax and Real beat Ajax = RM10, BD9, MC8, A5 ... City finish third
- Dortmund draw with Ajax and Real draw with Ajax = BD9, RM8, MC8, A6 ... City finish second if they beat Real by two goals, or one goal if they score four or more in that match, a 3-2 win means they need a better overall goal difference than real (currently need six goal swing)
- Dortmund draw with Ajax and Real lose to Ajax = BD9, A8, MC8 RM7 ... City finish third due to Ajax's better head-to-head record

- Dortmund lose to Ajax and Real beat Ajax = RM10, MC8, BD8, A7 ... City finish second due to better head-to-head with Dortmund
- Dortmund lose to Ajax and Real draw with Ajax = MC8, BD8, RM8, A8 ... City's final position determined by goal difference
- Dortmund lose to Ajax and Real lose to Ajax = A10, MC8, BD8, RM7 ... City finish second due to better head-to-head with Dortmund

Thanks for that!

Personally I love the Europa League. Its something to do on a Thursday so I see the last 2 games as win-win-win

Finish 2nd = 50% of the media hang themselves
Finish 3rd = half days off work and 6pm kick offs! Trips to Minsk!
Finish 4th = concentrate on the league, wrap the team in cotton wool, hope United's round of 16 competition sign Lee Cattermole on Jan 1st!

What channel is the game on tonight ? Hoping its itv but really doubt it. Stuck at friends house Without espn and sky sports ... Might stream if so :-(

Bluedays wrote:What channel is the game on tonight ? Hoping its itv but really doubt it. Stuck at friends house Without espn and sky sports ... Might stream if so :-(

It is on Sky Sports 2 and Sky Sports 2 HD ... If you subscribe to Sky at your place, you can watch it anywhere via Sky Go, on the web or iPhone/iPad.

bobby brows wrote:Personally I love the Europa League. Its something to do on a Thursday so I see the last 2 games as win-win-win

Finish 2nd = 50% of the media hang themselves
Finish 3rd = half days off work and 6pm kick offs! Trips to Minsk!
Finish 4th = concentrate on the league, wrap the team in cotton wool, hope United's round of 16 competition sign Lee Cattermole on Jan 1st!

This ... absolutely and I think this is the biggest positive going for us tomorrow, no pressure whatsoever ...

Will be fucking funny if Ajax and us win next two games then we and Ajax are playing CL, Dortmund find themselves in Europa and RM dumped out altogether ... I'll pay £1000 to see the faces of these sports writers at any newspaper should that happen.

City64 wrote:I cant stand talkshite , but after recieving a text i listend in whilst a few scousers were defending MCFC and our group of death , there opinion being NO British team would get out of it its that tough !

In the cold light of day WE MCFC are playing REAL fuckin MADRID at home in the Champions league and if we win we are still alive !!!!!

Would any of us have dreamt this just 4 or 5 years ago , nevermind 15 - 20 years ago.

Agreed, I listened to some scouser getting well heated under the collar with Jason "Orange Face" Cunty, by the end I really felt like the guy was a City fan venting his spleen saying how all the meeja said how shit City were because we had failed for a second season to qualify. His argument was that the Chavs, Scum or Arse wouldn't do any better than City whereas Cunty kept saying they would have more points than City - but not necessarily qualify.......a fun five minutes if thats possible on talkshite

Im_Spartacus wrote:The coefficient doesn't need upping. Ajax have already dropped way below us and as things stand now, we are 16th out of the teams who made the group stages

Shakhtar and I think it was benfica or Porto are set to lose some really hefty points this season regardless how they do, because of their haul 5 years ago

The issue for us is the 2008/9 season where we got 5 points, vs every other year where we have had 15-20. Once that drops out of the mix in 2014, we will be guarantee 2nd pot so long a we keep qualifying for the groups stage

I reckon we will be about 9 or 10th by then, so a good run in a competition would help push us into the top seeds, but I'm really not arsed as we are always nailed on to get one of barca, real, ac, inter or Munich as first seeds so long as united arsenal and Chelsea are top seeds.

This. Spot on.

Dronny wrote:

City64 wrote:I cant stand talkshite , but after recieving a text i listend in whilst a few scousers were defending MCFC and our group of death , there opinion being NO British team would get out of it its that tough !

In the cold light of day WE MCFC are playing REAL fuckin MADRID at home in the Champions league and if we win we are still alive !!!!!

Would any of us have dreamt this just 4 or 5 years ago , nevermind 15 - 20 years ago.

Agreed, I listened to some scouser getting well heated under the collar with Jason "Orange Face" Cunty, by the end I really felt like the guy was a City fan venting his spleen saying how all the meeja said how shit City were because we had failed for a second season to qualify. His argument was that the Chavs, Scum or Arse wouldn't do any better than City whereas Cunty kept saying they would have more points than City - but not necessarily qualify.......a fun five minutes if thats possible on talkshite

i woder what cundys thinking now chelsea going out and sacking di matteo ycnmiu.