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Never truer words spoken by Gollum after the match yesterday. What the fuck's the problem? We're allowing inferior teams to grow in confidence and then give ourselves a really tough task in the second half. It'd be great to see us springing out of the traps and the Derby would be a great place to start.

Not sure but we start every game very slugglishly at times it's like watching paint dry.I'm not sure what we are trying to achieve.Maybe we are attempting to draw the opposition into a false sense of security and then hit them hard late in the game.

Whatever we are trying to do or achieve at presnet it's tiresome and tediously boring to watch.I would love to see us shake off the shackles and start playing with movement again and probing teams with quick and decisive passing as we did so often last season.

All our best performers from last season are still here as a team they should really be growing and improving as a side.

blues2win wrote:Never truer words spoken by Gollum after the match yesterday.

Despite my despise of Gollum had massively dropped after the brave game they gave at the Filth last season - them alone with the Latics - I don't think that his comments on yesterday penalty, let alone on City getting too many favours of late!, were anywhere near the truth.

Almost joking Mate: I see You make reference to the thread title bit only... ;)
but, yet again, I cant help but feeling some genuine disgust at him and his overall issues with MCFC!

I can't stand Gollum but he's right about our infuriating slow starts.

I'm glad somebody has commented on this, Mancini gets it wrong so many times from the start.
We start playing well when we rip up the plan A and just attack teams because we are better than them.

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:I'm glad somebody has commented on this, Mancini gets it wrong so many times from the start.
We start playing well when we rip up the plan A and just attack teams because we are better than them.

Just out of interest mate, what do you think of the players on the pitch? Are they following Mancini's advice by telling them not to score?

Beefymcfc wrote:

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:I'm glad somebody has commented on this, Mancini gets it wrong so many times from the start.
We start playing well when we rip up the plan A and just attack teams because we are better than them.

Just out of interest mate, what do you think of the players on the pitch? Are they following Mancini's advice by telling them not to score?

I think he makes wrong team selections, his instructions are over cautious and over complicated and often lead to us looking short of direction. Is that fair enough?

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:

Beefymcfc wrote:

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:I'm glad somebody has commented on this, Mancini gets it wrong so many times from the start.
We start playing well when we rip up the plan A and just attack teams because we are better than them.

Just out of interest mate, what do you think of the players on the pitch? Are they following Mancini's advice by telling them not to score?

I think he makes wrong team selections, his instructions are over cautious and over complicated and often lead to us looking short of direction. Is that fair enough?

Course it is mate. Like I say, just trying to understand. No blame on our underperforming frontline or early lack of defensive control.

This is just a feeling and can't be backed up with stats...but I just think we're not sure what we are, and what we're trying to achieve any more. We look lost sometimes.

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:This is just a feeling and can't be backed up with stats...but I just think we're not sure what we are, and what we're trying to achieve any more. We look lost sometimes.

I think we look lethargic at times but not lost. The only time we'velooked lost is when we've changed to 3 at the back. Sometimes it's worked, sometimes it hasn't. Whatsurprises me about this is when certain players have come out and said that they're just not used to it. Well, it maybe true on matchday but they have practiced the scenario in the past so should understand what is asked of them.

We know exactly what we are trying to achieve and if our players don't then we should be looking to move them on. Anybody who's played football knows what their roll is and if you have to change that roll from time-to-time then so be it, it's done for the greater cause.

The problem at the moment for me is our lack of goals. We've had plenty of chances but we're just not clinical enough. After every game I always go to the stats pages to confirm that what I seen was true and on every occassion they've backed up my own conclusions. We have the majority of play, we have the majority of chances, we don't however always have the best goals at the end of the game. That's the worrying part for me and could be made worse if we hadn't had the likes of Dzeko come off the bench to save the day (I blame Mancini for that one ;-)).

I'm not sure how true this is - and if it is true, whether it's a problem.

We score a lot more in the second half, and towards the end of games, but that was the case last season - and I believe it worked. We've also only been losing at half time in two league games this season - nobody has a better record than that.

My best guess is two-fold. Firstly most teams score more goals later in matches - as play becomes stretched, and the time is running down, so more risks are taken by the side that needs a goal. In most matched we are usually the team with the best players, so we're the more likely to score.

Secondly, we play a patient brand of possession football, which can be tiring to defend against. As opponents get tired, more mistakes are made, and our pressure tells.

So, it's partly to do with how we play, but also, partly down to the nature of football - the better team scores more goals when needed. This season United have only let in 2 goals in the last 30 minutes of a league match - during that time they've scored 14. I suspect that's similar for most successful teams.

We are without a doubt a possession based team. As was mentioned, it eventually tires teams out or frustrates them and that is why we score a lot of second half goals.

I wouldnt't say there has been too many matches where we have had less posession, home or away.

It's not very attractive at times but in fairness, our stikers are having a bit of a lean patch and when that sorts itself out we will be a machine again.

Beefymcfc wrote:The problem at the moment for me is our lack of goals. We've had plenty of chances but we're just not clinical enough. After every game I always go to the stats pages to confirm that what I seen was true and on every occassion they've backed up my own conclusions. We have the majority of play, we have the majority of chances, we don't however always have the best goals at the end of the game. That's the worrying part for me and could be made worse if we hadn't had the likes of Dzeko come off the bench to save the day (I blame Mancini for that one ;-)).

We're still second highest scorers, and have the best goal difference (despite the old man across town claiming he'd never lose a title on GD again).

The big difference from last season is that we tonked a few teams early on, and I think that most teams wised up to the fact and decided they would rather get beaten by 1 or 2 goals rather than go chasing the game and end up shipping 4 or 5. We were simply too good on the break, and so now very few teams open up against us at all during the 90 minutes.

Although our overall goals per game is a lot lower than last season (1.87 compared to 2.45) if you compare our results last season post the Norwich win in December then it's much closer (1.87 to 1.96)

blue-nova wrote:

Beefymcfc wrote:The problem at the moment for me is our lack of goals. We've had plenty of chances but we're just not clinical enough. After every game I always go to the stats pages to confirm that what I seen was true and on every occassion they've backed up my own conclusions. We have the majority of play, we have the majority of chances, we don't however always have the best goals at the end of the game. That's the worrying part for me and could be made worse if we hadn't had the likes of Dzeko come off the bench to save the day (I blame Mancini for that one ;-)).

We're still second highest scorers, and have the best goal difference (despite the old man across town claiming he'd never lose a title on GD again).

The big difference from last season is that we tonked a few teams early on, and I think that most teams wised up to the fact and decided they would rather get beaten by 1 or 2 goals rather than go chasing the game and end up shipping 4 or 5. We were simply too good on the break, and so now very few teams open up against us at all during the 90 minutes.

Although our overall goals per game is a lot lower than last season (1.87 compared to 2.45) if you compare our results last season post the Norwich win in December then it's much closer (1.87 to 1.96)

I've put that across in another thread mate. What I'm saying here is that if our strikers had been on form then we could've/should've turned those draws into wins.

We don't seem to me to come out of the gate firing hunting and harrying in packs when we haven't got the ball and giving the opposition no respite. We certainly didn't yesterday nor at Wigan. We are obviously missing a lot of chances but I wish we broke upfield more quickly when an Opposition move breaks down. That's the moment of maximum danger for the Opposition. Once a team like Everton are back in their defensive shape it's bloody hard breaking them down especially as we're not blessed with much pace down the flanks.

Beefymcfc wrote:I've put that across in another thread mate. What I'm saying here is that if our strikers had been on form then we could've/should've turned those draws into wins.

True - I don't think anyone has been on fire yet. Although if any of Tevez, Sergio or Dzeko of them had been on the pitch as much as Defoe, Van Persie or Suarez, then I would expect them to have a similar number of goals. (Dzeko's strike rate is much better per mins on pitch than any of them, Tevez a little worse but not by much).

blue-nova wrote:

Beefymcfc wrote:I've put that across in another thread mate. What I'm saying here is that if our strikers had been on form then we could've/should've turned those draws into wins.

True - I don't think anyone has been on fire yet. Although if any of Tevez, Sergio or Dzeko of them had been on the pitch as much as Defoe, Van Persie or Suarez, then I would expect them to have a similar number of goals. (Dzeko's strike rate is much better per mins on pitch than any of them, Tevez a little worse but not by much).

The thing with Dzeko, as we've seen, is that when he's come on this season as the super-sub we are chasing the game for a win or draw. This chamges our collective mentality and we push the ball around quicker and are more direct, whuch plays to Edin's strengths. Add the fact that the oppo defence is more fatigued and you've got a perfect situation for him to play and score goals.

Maybe we can start adopting this earlier in games but would it have the same effect against a fresh and mentally strong opposition. I'm not sure.

I heard Michael Owen saying that although no one liked coming on as a super sub it had its advantages. You were under no pressure because you hadn't had a full go but you had the chance of being a hero against tiring defences. Dzeko has the added advantage of offering a completely different threat to the Tevez Aguero partnership.

blues2win wrote:I heard Michael Owen saying that although no one liked coming on as a super sub it had its advantages. You were under no pressure because you hadn't had a full go but you had the chance of being a hero against tiring defences. Dzeko has the added advantage of offering a completely different threat to the Tevez Aguero partnership.

Very true - and agree with @Beefymcfc about Dzeko from the start (I don't think he suits the way we play - but whether we would do as well if we changed to accommodate him, I don't know).

I remember reading some forward complaining that he didn't like being taken off for the last 20 mins, even if he'd done well, as the easy pickings were about to arrive. There is a case for letting someone do all the hard work, tiring the defence, while you have a nice sit down, then coming on to grab the glory.

I was wondering on Saturday whether it would help if Dzeko was called over by Mancini after 70 mins and told how useless he is. It might be pressure (was it Trevor Francis saying the same thing this weekend?), but it also looks a little like he needs to prove himself when coming on late - that may well be a stronger emotion than the pressure, which he then forgets about.

Some great posts in this thread. Well done folks.