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Given that Vinnie has currently been "in the news" with his latest red card, I've just been pondering as to how good he both is and has been, for us, since he switched to centre-back. Overall, I think he's been magnificent in this timescale and it drew my mind back to some of the defenders we've had in the past.

I think it's fair to say that, in 1967/68 we won the title with a centre-half who, although totally committed, was fairly crude and, at times, regularly erratic. This was the great George Heslop (who I loved dearly, in spite of everything).

In pure footballing terms, things improved with Tommy Booth who was far steadier, but we didn't get a truly great centre-back until we got the incomparable Dave Watson. Thereafter, there was the promise of Tommy Caton, the underrated Mick McCarthy, the hope that Steve Redmond and Paul Lake could reach the pinnacle as defenders and also the very brief interlude that was Daniel Van Buyten.

However, until Vinnie came along, I don't think we've had anyone who could even start to compare with the imperious Dave Watson.

I know that time causes us to look back through blue tinted spectacles and I know that, in the modern game, Dave Watson wouldn't have got away with some of the tackles he used to make but the question is, all other things being equal, how near could Vinnie become to being in the same, peerless category as 'Big Dave' ??

I don't think he'll ever be as good in the air as Dave Watson but he's a better footballer and he has a certain aura about him which is all his own and, on this basis, the thoughts are :-

(i) Is Vinnie our best central defender since Dave Watson ??
(ii) Can Vinnie surpass the overall quality that Dave Watson possessed ??
(iii) To further develop into a truly great, world class defender, does Vinnie need a great centre-half alongside him, or can he do it all (relatively speaking) "on his own" ??

Dave was top class for sure but he also had a top class player alongside him in Mick Doyle who was very underated. That pairing was equal to any central defenders that this country has ever seen IMO.

There can't be much between them in terms of general quality Mikhail but the one thing that Watson had that Vinnie will never have was the absolute command of the air.
Watson could head a ball harder and further (accurately) than most players can kick it. I have never seen any player in the world, before or since that had such ariel power or prowess.
His battle with Joe Jordan for both Leeds and the rags were open warfare.

I think the Hansen/Lawrenson partnership is the best I've seen. But Kompany is without doubt the best we've had since Watson. Watson was a better passer of the ball than Kompany as well as better in the air. Kompany is more mobile and better at carrying the ball. They both read the game well. The two of them together would have been perfect as far as I'm concerned.

Andy Morrison

I often been told of Watson but never had a chance to see him playing.... sadly. This interesting thread confirms my loss.

I am convinced that, bar maybe a slight sub-greatness ability in the air [just slight], Vincent has nothing less to be on par with the greatest of the role.... and I mean Franz Beckenbauer and Ruud Kroll... not peanuts!
I had the joy to attend many games featuring other two greats, Gaetano Scirea and Franco Baresi, both impeccable as per inttelligenge of the game, positioning and construction from the back, but I've always wondered if they would had been that great if they had had to face the aerial threats of the English game.

Also, we have not seen the best of Kompany yet, I amconvinced: his smart intelligence, in and off the pitch, will have him growing better and better, like a supreme red wine.

Watson was a collossus. Mike Doyle was also magnificent in that centre half role. He was imperious in the 76 LC Final, as was Watson.

Curle was absolutely brilliant at certain aspects of the game and had unbelievable speed. Distin was no mug either.

In all honesty, I think VInnie is the best we've had. His overall game, presence, impact, personality, ability, strenghth, the whole package, is fabulous.

Someopne mentioned Morrison. Well, clearly not in the class of these players, but as a pure beast of burden, just a very big impact signing at a crucial time for City. He was awesome in many ways.

Granted it was a different level of football whgen we had Morrison but he virtually dragged us through that season, imense player and captain for the club at that time

Well traveled our Dave:

Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1966–1967 Notts County 25 (1)
1967–1970 Rotherham United 121 (19)
1970–1975 Sunderland 177 (27)
1975–1979 Manchester City 146 (4)
1979 Werder Bremen 2 (0)
1979–1982 Southampton 73 (8)
1982–1983 Stoke City 59 (5)
1983 Vancouver Whitecaps 26 (3)
1983–1984 Derby County 34 (1)
1984 Fort Lauderdale Sun
1984–1985 Notts County 25 (1)
1985-1986 Kettering Town 14 (3)

Chinners wrote:Andy Morrison

Colin Hendry

chef wrote:

Chinners wrote:Andy Morrison

Colin Hendry

Alan Kernaghan

kompany is the dog bollocks and he has a massive dick, fact.

Crossie wrote:

chef wrote:

Chinners wrote:Andy Morrison

Colin Hendry

Alan Kernaghan

kakhaber tskhadadze

MilnersJaw wrote:kompany is the dog bollocks and he has a massive dick, fact.

+1

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Crossie wrote:

chef wrote:

Chinners wrote:Andy Morrison

Colin Hendry

Alan Kernaghan

kakhaber tskhadadze

Murtaz Shelia

I'm not old enough to remember Watson. I remember the other one more, for shame, the Everton guy. First ones I can recall seeing were Stevie Redmond, and Brian Gayle; people of that era. When we bought Curle, he was the classiest defender I'd seen play for us by a stretch. It really pissed me off that he wasn't recognised more for England, and had the honour of playing right back for Graham Taylor in that awful game against Sweden(?).

Curle was excellent, but Vincent has everything. He also seems to know everything, which is cool. Off the field he is consummate. On it, he has the physique, skills, cool head, common sense to rule any situation in defence, and though he's not been quite as resolute this season, it's always a pleasure to watch him play. Getting back on form now, like the whole team.

Was gonna say 'but could any of these guys play up front as well as Michel Vonk' cos I saw him get drafted up front one game and smash it. Then I read up on Dave Watson, and apparently such was his aerial prowess that he got pushed up front one season for Rotherham and scored 12 in 20! Must have been some footballer.

A few centrehalves mentioned here and not a mention for Dicky Dunne?

Heart of a lion player and when he left I knew he'd never play with that level of devotion for another club. Not a force in the air, but for last ditch tackling(and sometimes own goals) there was no-one better.

Slim wrote:A few centrehalves mentioned here and not a mention for Dicky Dunne?

Heart of a lion player and when he left I knew he'd never play with that level of devotion for another club. Not a force in the air, but for last ditch tackling(and sometimes own goals) there was no-one better.

I miss him.

Cocacolajojo wrote:

Slim wrote:A few centrehalves mentioned here and not a mention for Dicky Dunne?

Heart of a lion player and when he left I knew he'd never play with that level of devotion for another club. Not a force in the air, but for last ditch tackling(and sometimes own goals) there was no-one better.

I miss him.

Fair point, he was often immense for us.

Goataldo wrote:
Fair point, he was often immense for us.

If Vince the Prince had been suspended I would have Dunne in the team for 3 matches no doubt. Is he leaving Villa?