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Originally posted in Ask the Lads by rosbif cuisson 'bleu'

I've noticed recently that when Bale places the ball for free kicks he spends time rotating the ball before placing it on the ground.
I'm guessing he's looking for the valve (if balls still have them...i know that since my day laces have gone...). I reckon it was so he can find the section of the ball that is ever so slightly 'harder' in order to improve the contact when he strikes it.
Does anyone who plays ( or not ) know if this is what's going on or if he's just 'getting in the zone'. He does seem to have found a way to get that fast dip on his free kicks. Tranny used to have a way of striking a free kick that produced a similar flight , but i never saw him looking so closely at the ball.

dazby wrote:Originally posted in Ask the Lads by rosbif cuisson 'bleu'

I've noticed recently that when Bale places the ball for free kicks he spends time rotating the ball before placing it on the ground.
I'm guessing he's looking for the valve (if balls still have them...i know that since my day laces have gone...). I reckon it was so he can find the section of the ball that is ever so slightly 'harder' in order to improve the contact when he strikes it.
Does anyone who plays ( or not ) know if this is what's going on or if he's just 'getting in the zone'. He does seem to have found a way to get that fast dip on his free kicks. Tranny used to have a way of striking a free kick that produced a similar flight , but i never saw him looking so closely at the ball.

Best logical answer I can think of is,
Just playing with his balls .

They're Ronaldos free kicks, bale and that Sunderland guy just copied it.

But yeah I think it's about finding the spot (the valve) where you get most movement then hitting the target with pace and hoping the ball devices the keeper.

Did you see his face on Monday when the ball dipped proper late, he looked well shocked!

Edit: by devices I mean deceives lol

Thinking you are reading too much into it.

Get a ball. Kick it. Then do it again, kicking the valve.

The shit works.

The fact that the balls are so light means that they an swerve so much when kicked with topspin. I'm going to be coaching some players next week on how to do these kicks. Normally, when taking a goal kick it's like a golf shot. Hit the ball low and then allow the studs to go through the grass and sometimes take a divot. With these kicks (note Tranny's winner against us in the first Chumps league game) you place the ball a little more forward in your stance and actually take your divot before you make contact with the ball. This causes topspin on the ball and gives it a much more unpredictable flight path making it much harder to defend.

Note Tevez goal on the weekend. He hits the ground before the ball causing the ball to fly with no backspin. As a result, it goes through the air much faster. Had he of hit it conventionally it wouldn't have generated the same speed and should have been saved.

I was taliking about this in another thread recently.

Tranny used to study the ball quite a lot but doesn't seem to anymore (perhaps the valve is marked for him by his sponsors ?).

If you watch Bale though, he has more than one free kick. If he's on the right side he will often curl the ball in the conventional manner, where you can clearly see the rotation on the ball as it curves in (ala Beckham etc).

When they do this dipping etc shit, there is very little rotation on the ball & I think it's changing shape as opposed to spinning, thus, part of the ball is dragging in the air like the rough side of a cricket ball when it swings. Depending on the shape, it can go left, right, up, down or all 4. The player can't be sure which imo, & if they get it wrong, it hits the back of the stand, at the top end.

I recon the other key is power: the harder you kick it, the more it changes shape, so we sometimes see balls doing that randomly when wellied in open play if they connect with a bit of toe ender in there.

Think back to when you leathered a cheap plastic football as a kid, & it did all manner of bizarre shit..

dazby wrote:The fact that the balls are so light means that they an swerve so much when kicked with topspin. I'm going to be coaching some players next week on how to do these kicks. Normally, when taking a goal kick it's like a golf shot. Hit the ball low and then allow the studs to go through the grass and sometimes take a divot. With these kicks (note Tranny's winner against us in the first Chumps league game) you place the ball a little more forward in your stance and actually take your divot before you make contact with the ball. This causes topspin on the ball and gives it a much more unpredictable flight path making it much harder to defend.

Note Tevez goal on the weekend. He hits the ground before the ball causing the ball to fly with no backspin. As a result, it goes through the air much faster. Had he of hit it conventionally it wouldn't have generated the same speed and should have been saved.

Dazby: When Jimmy Anderson for instance releases a cricket ball it barely rotates, just swings, but on occasion if it makes a half turn, the air flow changes & it starts to go the other way.

Some swing bowlers can still swing it if it rotates provided the seam stays straight of course but I think the majority of top exponents don't have much rotation or at least very slow rotation.

To do that with a football, you must be making contact somewhere close to the centre.

Cricket balls usually swing because one side is rougher, dirtier or has been tampered with. Perhaps Bale is looking for damage, dirt or marks on the ball that might change its aerodynamics slightly; maybe he has something in his hair that he is applying to the ball before he kicks it that has the same result?? Would that be outlawed under current rules -it is in cricket!

blues-clues wrote:Cricket balls usually swing because one side is rougher, dirtier or has been tampered with. Perhaps Bale is looking for damage, dirt or marks on the ball that might change its aerodynamics slightly; maybe he has something in his hair that he is applying to the ball before he kicks it that has the same result?? Would that be outlawed under current rules -it is in cricket!

Ape sweat.

The key to the cricket ball swinging though, is that the two sides of the ball stay pretty much in the same place (ie left & right) rather than turning, so one side drags & the ball either moves toward or away from that side ie reverse swing or conventional swing.

I recon that's what's happening with a football in this instance; it changes shape when wellied but doesn't spin very much so the direction it travels depends on what shape it is at the time.

The technique needed is more of a jab punch than a follow through. Hard to explain.

london blue 2 wrote:The technique needed is more of a jab punch than a follow through. Hard to explain.

Never good when you follow through.

If you hit one small area, the ball doesn't spin as much, as if you are hitting it with a hammer. If you follow through, you will make contact with more of the ball & it's likely to spin.

The grip for swinging a cricket ball involves holding it almost with the tips of the fingers behind the ball so it doesn't make contact with your hand & start to spin; you are almost balancing the ball rather than gripping it, only making a small contact.

Same priniciple.

With a football imo the simplest description is: toe ender.

Ted Hughes wrote:

dazby wrote:The fact that the balls are so light means that they an swerve so much when kicked with topspin. I'm going to be coaching some players next week on how to do these kicks. Normally, when taking a goal kick it's like a golf shot. Hit the ball low and then allow the studs to go through the grass and sometimes take a divot. With these kicks (note Tranny's winner against us in the first Chumps league game) you place the ball a little more forward in your stance and actually take your divot before you make contact with the ball. This causes topspin on the ball and gives it a much more unpredictable flight path making it much harder to defend.

Note Tevez goal on the weekend. He hits the ground before the ball causing the ball to fly with no backspin. As a result, it goes through the air much faster. Had he of hit it conventionally it wouldn't have generated the same speed and should have been saved.

Dazby: When Jimmy Anderson for instance releases a cricket ball it barely rotates, just swings, but on occasion if it makes a half turn, the air flow changes & it starts to go the other way.

Some swing bowlers can still swing it if it rotates provided the seam stays straight of course but I think the majority of top exponents don't have much rotation or at least very slow rotation.

To do that with a football, you must be making contact somewhere close to the centre.

wasting your time asking an Ozzie to comment on Anderson's bowling. It's clearly a mystery to them all

Alex Sapphire wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

dazby wrote:The fact that the balls are so light means that they an swerve so much when kicked with topspin. I'm going to be coaching some players next week on how to do these kicks. Normally, when taking a goal kick it's like a golf shot. Hit the ball low and then allow the studs to go through the grass and sometimes take a divot. With these kicks (note Tranny's winner against us in the first Chumps league game) you place the ball a little more forward in your stance and actually take your divot before you make contact with the ball. This causes topspin on the ball and gives it a much more unpredictable flight path making it much harder to defend.

Note Tevez goal on the weekend. He hits the ground before the ball causing the ball to fly with no backspin. As a result, it goes through the air much faster. Had he of hit it conventionally it wouldn't have generated the same speed and should have been saved.

Dazby: When Jimmy Anderson for instance releases a cricket ball it barely rotates, just swings, but on occasion if it makes a half turn, the air flow changes & it starts to go the other way.

Some swing bowlers can still swing it if it rotates provided the seam stays straight of course but I think the majority of top exponents don't have much rotation or at least very slow rotation.

To do that with a football, you must be making contact somewhere close to the centre.

wasting your time asking an Ozzie to comment on Anderson's bowling. It's clearly a mystery to them all

Mitchell Johnson can swing ask 10th slip.

Alex Sapphire wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

dazby wrote:The fact that the balls are so light means that they an swerve so much when kicked with topspin. I'm going to be coaching some players next week on how to do these kicks. Normally, when taking a goal kick it's like a golf shot. Hit the ball low and then allow the studs to go through the grass and sometimes take a divot. With these kicks (note Tranny's winner against us in the first Chumps league game) you place the ball a little more forward in your stance and actually take your divot before you make contact with the ball. This causes topspin on the ball and gives it a much more unpredictable flight path making it much harder to defend.

Note Tevez goal on the weekend. He hits the ground before the ball causing the ball to fly with no backspin. As a result, it goes through the air much faster. Had he of hit it conventionally it wouldn't have generated the same speed and should have been saved.

Dazby: When Jimmy Anderson for instance releases a cricket ball it barely rotates, just swings, but on occasion if it makes a half turn, the air flow changes & it starts to go the other way.

Some swing bowlers can still swing it if it rotates provided the seam stays straight of course but I think the majority of top exponents don't have much rotation or at least very slow rotation.

To do that with a football, you must be making contact somewhere close to the centre.

wasting your time asking an Ozzie to comment on Anderson's bowling. It's clearly a mystery to them all

Like.

You're right Alex. I haven't watched any more than half an hour's international cricket for the past 3 years. Apparently you guys are doing OK. 20-20 has killed all forms of the game for me.

Ted Hughes wrote:

london blue 2 wrote:The technique needed is more of a jab punch than a follow through. Hard to explain.

With a football imo the simplest description is: toe ender.

It's definately not toe ending, its about using power to strike the ball but the technique requires you to (the only word I can think is) punch the ball with very little or no follow through.

it can be done using spin (not so successfully), as following through a strike can also keep the ball from rotating at times (see Elano).

Best way I can explain is when you hit a shot/volley without using all your power but the ball flies like a mofo.

Its all in the technique and anyone whos played footy regularly has probably experienced it before. The guys that can do it regularly are the guys that can take these freekicks.

london blue 2 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

london blue 2 wrote:The technique needed is more of a jab punch than a follow through. Hard to explain.

With a football imo the simplest description is: toe ender.

It's definately not toe ending, its about using power to strike the ball but the technique requires you to (the only word I can think is) punch the ball with very little or no follow through.

Ie; like a toe ender. It's the same idea. Only a small area of contact rather than a large one. Hence, if you hit it in the right spot, it will still happen even with a follow through.

london blue 2 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

london blue 2 wrote:The technique needed is more of a jab punch than a follow through. Hard to explain.

With a football imo the simplest description is: toe ender.

It's definately not toe ending, its about using power to strike the ball but the technique requires you to (the only word I can think is) punch the ball with very little or no follow through.

it can be done using spin (not so successfully), as following through a strike can also keep the ball from rotating at times (see Elano).

Best way I can explain is when you hit a shot/volley without using all your power but the ball flies like a mofo.

Its all in the technique and anyone whos played footy regularly has probably experienced it before. The guys that can do it regularly are the guys that can take these freekicks.

The Saints LB Shaw top young player is doing it from open play with crosses, one touch to set it up and nightmare cross for defenders and keepers to deal with, as you say some have it others no chance. Bale is a class act working on his game daily.

Hazy2 wrote:

london blue 2 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

london blue 2 wrote:The technique needed is more of a jab punch than a follow through. Hard to explain.

With a football imo the simplest description is: toe ender.

It's definately not toe ending, its about using power to strike the ball but the technique requires you to (the only word I can think is) punch the ball with very little or no follow through.

it can be done using spin (not so successfully), as following through a strike can also keep the ball from rotating at times (see Elano).

Best way I can explain is when you hit a shot/volley without using all your power but the ball flies like a mofo.

Its all in the technique and anyone whos played footy regularly has probably experienced it before. The guys that can do it regularly are the guys that can take these freekicks.

The Saints LB Shaw top young player is doing it from open play with crosses, one touch to set it up and nightmare cross for defenders and keepers to deal with, as you say some have it others no chance. Bale is a class act working on his game daily.

Imo, if you have the power in your legs to hit a ball very very hard without straining, then you can perfect that easier than the next bloke because you are concerned only with striking the ball sweetly, not worrying about how hard you strike it & losing your body shape.

Balotelli could do it regularly if he could be arsed working hard on it.