The mancityfans.net football forum

I couldn't find the other thread so I just started a new one. Sue me.

There was a feature on match fixing in football in particular and sports in general in last weekends Standard, here in Austria. It seems there's a lot of stuff going on. Austria seems to be right in the middle of it, as there is a huge gambling corporation/consortium with its headquarters in the tiny village of Gumpoldskirchen. I mean... they're not fixing games, they're trying to battle match fixing but because a lot of the online gambling takes place on their sites, they're in the middle of it. Actually, it seems that here in Austria they've opened a new branch of the police that's supposed to only research corruption within sports. There's also a whistleblower site for anyone who wants to report anything. I wouldn't hope on too much, as Austria is pretty corrupt in to the roots in oh so many aspects, but at least something is happening here.

Anyways, there was also a short summary of ongoing or recently finished investigations of match fixings and such in different countries.

Austria: Je... pretty much. There was one bet on an amateure team from Salzburg and it seems the profit from that match fixing was around 500 000 euros.

Italy: As always. I had actually not heard that Cannavaro had been suspended for half a year because of corruption.

Turkey: I had forgotten that Fenerbahce was supspended in 2011 from the champions league. Their president seems to be enjoying life in prison.

US: CONCACAF of 2010 is being examined, where irregular betting patterns seems to imply that thhe national teams of Granade, El Salvador and Cuba was involved in something.

Germany: A guy named Ante Patina, also suspected for match fixing in Austria, was sentenced to 5,5 years last year but the verdict had to be dropped on technical charges and is now being prepared again. The district attorney claims that Patina is guily of making around 2,3 million Euros on match fixing.

China: Referees, managers, playrs, you name it. The trial against 60 people for corruption and match fixing started last december.

South Korea: Nothing going on now it seems but in 2011 46 players and punters were accused of match fixing.

Zimbabwe: During the year of 2012 around 100 players were suspended, waiting trial for charges of corruption. Everything seems to imply that organized crime from south east asia is highly involved.

South Africa: In december 2012 the president and four associates in the national football association were suspended for an undetermined amount of time. It has to do with the pre world cup friendles to the world cup of 2012. People in Singapore are suspected to be the main culprits behind it all.


So.... great sport we're following. :)

Also, I have to say that I might have gotten some stuff wrong because it was originally written in German.

There have been big match fixing scandals in both Finland and Belgium as well.

Match fixing?

Fucking seasons have been fixed here for the last 20 years.

Please be advised that anything printed in the media is only the merest tip of the iceberg.

The fact of the matter is that football is a prime example of a sport where massive profits are made from match fixing - both match fixing for the purpose of gambling advantage and match fixing by way of bungs to match officials to 'sway' results.
In a league where there are millions gained or lost on a 3 point game it remains that corruption is not only likely but both obvious and inevitable.
At it's most innocuous it's managers pressuring referees by intimidatory remarks made to the press (one of taggart's regular tricks), beyond that it's money transfers to personal accounts (some named after pet dogs) and investment 'advice' and the like funded by money laundered through the transfer process (think taggart paying millions for bebe) whereby transfers are used as a mechanism to simply shift money abroad, say by paying £8 million for a player worth £300k, so that unregistered bung-funds are then available but off the radar in foreign accounts.

Awareness of corruption in football is presently akin to where awareness of drug use in cycling was say 20 years ago - everyone recognises that the environment is prime for it and most people suspect it goes on but the overarching organisations only pay lip service to investigating it because they don't see opening the can of worms as being in the best interests of the sport and ergo in their own best interests.

Herb wrote:Please be advised that anything printed in the media is only the merest tip of the iceberg.

The fact of the matter is that football is a prime example of a sport where massive profits are made from match fixing - both match fixing for the purpose of gambling advantage and match fixing by way of bungs to match officials to 'sway' results.
In a league where there are millions gained or lost on a 3 point game it remains that corruption is not only likely but both obvious and inevitable.
At it's most innocuous it's managers pressuring referees by intimidatory remarks made to the press (one of taggart's regular tricks), beyond that it's money transfers to personal accounts (some named after pet dogs) and investment 'advice' and the like funded by money laundered through the transfer process (think taggart paying millions for bebe) whereby transfers are used as a mechanism to simply shift money abroad, say by paying £8 million for a player worth £300k, so that unregistered bung-funds are then available but off the radar in foreign accounts.

Awareness of corruption in football is presently akin to where awareness of drug use in cycling was say 20 years ago - everyone recognises that the environment is prime for it and most people suspect it goes on but the overarching organisations only pay lip service to investigating it because they don't see opening the can of worms as being in the best interests of the sport and ergo in their own best interests.

Brilliant post.

Original Dub wrote:

Herb wrote:Please be advised that anything printed in the media is only the merest tip of the iceberg.

The fact of the matter is that football is a prime example of a sport where massive profits are made from match fixing - both match fixing for the purpose of gambling advantage and match fixing by way of bungs to match officials to 'sway' results.
In a league where there are millions gained or lost on a 3 point game it remains that corruption is not only likely but both obvious and inevitable.
At it's most innocuous it's managers pressuring referees by intimidatory remarks made to the press (one of taggart's regular tricks), beyond that it's money transfers to personal accounts (some named after pet dogs) and investment 'advice' and the like funded by money laundered through the transfer process (think taggart paying millions for bebe) whereby transfers are used as a mechanism to simply shift money abroad, say by paying £8 million for a player worth £300k, so that unregistered bung-funds are then available but off the radar in foreign accounts.

Awareness of corruption in football is presently akin to where awareness of drug use in cycling was say 20 years ago - everyone recognises that the environment is prime for it and most people suspect it goes on but the overarching organisations only pay lip service to investigating it because they don't see opening the can of worms as being in the best interests of the sport and ergo in their own best interests.

Brilliant post.

Corruption of all kinds, including attempted match fixing, clearly exists but it's so hard to prove, as we saw in the cases of Grobbelaar & Redknapp just to name 2.

If you look through the transfer history of every club there are things that really smell in just about every case. Bebe has been flagged but what about Jo ? C*nto*a to Utd, from Leeds ? Give over. Some of Keegan's signings absolutely stink & Willy MacKay was involved in many of our transfers at that time. Then remember who eventually signed James & Distin ?

As far as match fixing goes, can anyone think of a club which seems to benefit from an extraordinary number of perfectly timed own goals ?

Ted Hughes wrote:
As far as match fixing goes, can anyone think of a club which seems to benefit from an extraordinary number of perfectly timed own goals ?

Quite often involving former players

There is little argument that it goes on and as people have highlighted it has been known about for a long time.However I think the issue is more the fact that you are never going to stop it.There is always going to be somebody to take the place of whoever is being corrupt now.
So IMO if you cannot beat them join them

Rag_hater wrote:There is little argument that it goes on and as people have highlighted it has been known about for a long time.However I think the issue is more the fact that you are never going to stop it.There is always going to be somebody to take the place of whoever is being corrupt now.
So IMO if you cannot beat them join them

Wait-One. Don't you advocate that all is good in the game?

On a different note, I read the other day that one of the match refereess/delegates had tried to blow the whistle on UEFA fixing the quarter final draw. How true that is is another matter but I found it quite strange that none of the big teams got drawn against each other, just like last year.

And here was me thinking that you could never be drawn in the group of death, twice!

Beefymcfc wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:There is little argument that it goes on and as people have highlighted it has been known about for a long time.However I think the issue is more the fact that you are never going to stop it.There is always going to be somebody to take the place of whoever is being corrupt now.
So IMO if you cannot beat them join them

Wait-One. Don't you advocate that all is good in the game?

On a different note, I read the other day that one of the match refereess/delegates had tried to blow the whistle on UEFA fixing the quarter final draw. How true that is is another matter but I found it quite strange that none of the big teams got drawn against each other, just like last year.

And here was me thinking that you could never be drawn in the group of death, twice!

My thoughts on seeing the draw. I think the match official was from Turkey.

Beefymcfc wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:There is little argument that it goes on and as people have highlighted it has been known about for a long time.However I think the issue is more the fact that you are never going to stop it.There is always going to be somebody to take the place of whoever is being corrupt now.
So IMO if you cannot beat them join them

Wait-One. Don't you advocate that all is good in the game?

On a different note, I read the other day that one of the match refereess/delegates had tried to blow the whistle on UEFA fixing the quarter final draw. How true that is is another matter but I found it quite strange that none of the big teams got drawn against each other, just like last year.

And here was me thinking that you could never be drawn in the group of death, twice!

No I certainly do not I just think it has always been happening and at my age I do not find it that shocking anymore.People are bent.Well fuck me never knew that.

50% of teams in Serie A are under investigation and have had points deducted in the last 2 seasons for match fixing, Mafia have made millions from betting, Berlusconi have been investigated for murder of top magistrates, found not guilty, tip of the iceberg, I posted 2 months ago the powers at the head of European football have ignored it for years, just like the pillaging of Portsmouth, Russians getting the money out of the club and the Premier League sitting back praying they get relegated. Protect the brand, let em do what they want, bent in this country, nobofy wants to look to close, loo back at the Bryan Robson comments in the docu on Asian betting, where has that gone, Alex Ferguson knows whats what, that should have lead to a lot of questions, buried.

Hazy2 wrote:50% of teams in Serie A are under investigation and have had points deducted in the last 2 seasons for match fixing, Mafia have made millions from betting, Berlusconi have been investigated for murder of top magistrates, found not guilty, tip of the iceberg, I posted 2 months ago the powers at the head of European football have ignored it for years, just like the pillaging of Portsmouth, Russians getting the money out of the club and the Premier League sitting back praying they get relegated. Protect the brand, let em do what they want, bent in this country, nobofy wants to look to close, loo back at the Bryan Robson comments in the docu on Asian betting, where has that gone, Alex Ferguson knows whats what, that should have lead to a lot of questions, buried.

To me that just says there is fuckall that can be done to stop it and, the only way to keep up is to be as bent as the fuckers who are doing it.

Rag_hater wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:50% of teams in Serie A are under investigation and have had points deducted in the last 2 seasons for match fixing, Mafia have made millions from betting, Berlusconi have been investigated for murder of top magistrates, found not guilty, tip of the iceberg, I posted 2 months ago the powers at the head of European football have ignored it for years, just like the pillaging of Portsmouth, Russians getting the money out of the club and the Premier League sitting back praying they get relegated. Protect the brand, let em do what they want, bent in this country, nobofy wants to look to close, loo back at the Bryan Robson comments in the docu on Asian betting, where has that gone, Alex Ferguson knows whats what, that should have lead to a lot of questions, buried.

To me that just says there is fuckall that can be done to stop it and, the only way to keep up is to be as bent as the fuckers who are doing it.

from dispatches,Last night the Channel 4 showed a powerful documentary about wealthy businessmen and consortium buying football clubs in England.

‘Dispatches – How to buy a football club’ featured an undercover reporter claiming to represent a wealthy group of investors in a journey that took the reporter to the brink of buying a League One football club.

The documentary also focuses on the murky and confusing ownership structures in the Premier League and Championship the true state of English football and the lack of transparency that will disturb many English football fans.

The documentary tells the story of London Nominees and the ‘Football Fund’ two intertwined investment vehicles the latter fronted by Bryan Robson, and their involvement and scheming to buy upto three football clubs through complicated ownership and investment schemes.

The individuals involved were portrayed to have a well connected structure within the English football and Asian political structures with the documentary featuring the marketing, business model and structure of the proposed takeover.

The London Nominees consortium held meetings in Thailand with the Dispatches reporter, to discuss the purchase of a football club, in which former England captain Bryan Robson is at the forefront as a figure of power and connections for the group which view clubs as a commodity to be bought, developed and then sold.

The former England captain at the heart of the opening scenes comes across as brash, slightly greedy but not overtly dishonest, even seeking assurances that any investment would not involve asset stripping a future investment for ground development rights.

Robson however is quickly exposed as mainly a figurehead in the group designed to add respectability, the power residing with businessmen and owner of Manchester United’s Bankok bar Joe Sim, a man who claims connections across the footballing community.

During negotiations with the Dispatches reporter Mr Sim continuously leverages a relationship however fleeting with Sir Alex Ferguson, to convey an image of respectability and power and it becomes clear that Mr Sim is the driving force behind London Nominees.

Mr Sim claimed to have a personal relationship with Sir Alex Ferguson that seemed credible during the interactions between the reporter and Sim, the reporter even speaking to the Scotsman on the phone during a dinner between the pair.

Whilst the extent of this relationship is not clear Mr Sim certainly leverages any contact for indirect financial gain and this raises interesting questions, it is important to note that Sir Alex Ferguson has been quick to distance himself from Mr Sim and his investment operations.

As the documentary unfolds both Sim and Robson make bold claims of the potential of future deals that could occur due to the pairs connections, they talk of exploiting connections and the English loan system to develop not just one but potentially three clubs fully aware that this breeches Football League rules.

The consortium is filmed indicating that it is prepared to operate a complex shell game with the authorities, plotting to hide their true intentions and power from the governing bodies and overcome fair competition rules.

This is an eye opening and disturbing documentary showing how the influx of money in the game has opened the game up to prospectors who are willing to bend/break the rules to turn sport into profit, whilst unsuccessful on this occasion it is almost impossible to know if Mr Sim or the Football fund actually already own one or more clubs in the Football League.

Whilst it may not be surprising that some are willing to be dishonest, it is startling how deep this apparent conspiracy goes and how little say/control the average fan has over the actions of businessmen often plotting thousands of miles away.

This documentary is a must watch for any fan of English Football

sorry to mods if not allowed to copy from dispatches..

It's all well and good somebody figureing out how all this is done and exposing it,but the fact is that the rewards are big enough for people to break/bend whatever rules are implemented means that corruption, will always be,like it always has been, be part of the game.
The fact the Italians have been caught again kind of confirms this what, they got punished last time has not put people off.

Rag_hater wrote:It's all well and good somebody figureing out how all this is done and exposing it,but the fact is that the rewards are big enough for people to break/bend whatever rules are implemented means that corruption, will always be,like it always has been, be part of the game.
The fact the Italians have been caught again kind of confirms this what, they got punished last time has not put people off.

I see where you're coming and in a sense you're probably right, from but at the same time the punishments handed out in Italy wasn't really that hard in a structural sense. A few teams got punished for offences commited by many more and not many individual players faced any consequences. Cannavaro went to Real Madrid and won the Spanish League two years in a row for example. Zlatan three years in a row with a team that also had been implicated for bribery and such, although not during the same investatigation.

Of course football will always be ripe for bribery and of course there will probably always be some type of corruption in the match fixing sense, but it's not like we've tried everything to combat it. Quite the opposite.

Of the top off my head, a few solutions that we haven't seen tested yet
UEFA permanently banning players, managers etc indicted for corruption from international and club football
FIFA actually doing something more about corruption than pay lip service
FIFA permanently banning players, managers etc indicted for corruption from international football
The football federations putting aside a portion of the yearly TV-money in order to fund private investigations of corruption
UEFA/FIFA taking a stance against certain types of bets, like first corner and such.

I don't know, haven't thought much about any of these solutions but hey, let's try them. It can't get worse. It really can't.

Rag_hater wrote:It's all well and good somebody figureing out how all this is done and exposing it,but the fact is that the rewards are big enough for people to break/bend whatever rules are implemented means that corruption, will always be,like it always has been, be part of the game.
The fact the Italians have been caught again kind of confirms this what, they got punished last time has not put people off.

I saw how the TV fund is 'shared out' in Italy, the total fund is over 20 percent less than the English fund yet the top three Italian clubs all get a share greater than the winner of the Premier League (with Juventus getting something like the equivalent of 83 million pounds) and the amount from season to season hardly varies whether you finish first or just outside the relegation places. The whole system is designed to keep almost all the money at Juventus and the two Milan clubs with everyone else getting a pittance. I'm quite frankly not surprised some clubs are tempted into match fixing over there (although why Juventus have felt the need to do it in the past is beyond me)

Beefymcfc wrote:
On a different note, I read the other day that one of the match refereess/delegates had tried to blow the whistle on UEFA fixing the quarter final draw. How true that is is another matter but I found it quite strange that none of the big teams got drawn against each other, just like last year.

Have a rag friend (it's my charity work) who I've known since school. I remember laughing/crying about how easy the rags draw was in each round as English clubs were allowed back into Europe and they strolled to the cup winners cup final. It was almost as if UEFA was desperate for the TV revenue which English clubs brought...

Anyway, either the next season or the one after the, Norwich were in Europe and came up against Bayern. Now my rag mate knew a Norwich fan through work. And this Norwich fan knew someone at UEFA from school. The Norwich fan claimed he knew they'd get Bayern and even who would be away first.

All sounds very made up. However, this Norwich fan had bought flights and hotels in Munich on the strength of it. And was telling my mate this the day BEFORE the draw was made. He actually showed him the bookings he'd made. My rag mate was mainly upset as it proved my complaints about their draw previously. I've seen nothing since which makes me think it's been cleaned up.

I wish we could of fixed a few of our recent results.

lets all have a disco wrote:I wish we could of fixed a few of our recent results.

Doubt if that would ever be possible with the agenda against us.