Fernandinho

[DoomMerchant]

watching him again today in his new role got me wondering:
who else do we have that can play that role? Fern will likely be rested and/or injured at some point. surely its not Yaya or Fernando. Delph? Gundogan? i can't see either of them being effective dropping back between the 2 center backs. or will we play differently when Fern is not in the side?

Why can't you see Gundogan playing it? He's more than capable. He has superior passing and vision to Fernandinho imo, that's not a dig at Ferna btw.

do you reckon that could be why pep signed him?

That's what I thought but interested to hear why Phips isn't keen given he's likely watched him a lot more than I have.

phips is american, mate. my 23 month old daughter knows more about football than him.

whoop whooop!

cheers

[Cocacolajojo]

pep might have 4-2-4 in mind for certain games

Shades of Brazil (and Peru) circa 1970 !!

That would be interesting.

Every team played 4-2-4 (or something like it) until 1958, IIRC. Don't think it was especially Brazilian and if anything, I think they helped kill that formation by winning the world cup in 1958.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

pep might have 4-2-4 in mind for certain games

Shades of Brazil (and Peru) circa 1970 !!

That would be interesting.

Every team played 4-2-4 (or something like it) until 1958, IIRC. Don't think it was especially Brazilian and if anything, I think they helped kill that formation by winning the world cup in 1958.

In the early/mid sixties, Real Madrid were still playing 4-2-4 but Barcelona (amongst others) started playing a 4-3-3 set up which seemed better balanced to some people. After that, Alf Ramsey started killing the attacking side of the game for England by opting, especially after 1966, to a more rigid pattern based on something akin to 4-4-2. Because of his apparent success, many nations followed suit.

In Chile in 1962, England payed 4-2-4, but by 1970 there were only a few sides lining up with this putatively 'outdated' formation, which made Brazil and Peru so joyous to watch and refreshingly different. I loved that Peruvian side and their quarter final game with Brazil was a feast of great attacking football with Brazil (unfortunately) running out as deserved 4-2 winners.

In England, for so many years after 1970, the 4-4-2 formation became almost set in concrete and mandatory for most managers and I still think this has contributed, to some extent, to England being tactically left behind by so many more progressive nations, albeit with technically better players, in the last few decades.


Just to change tack a little and going back to Pip's question of who could replace Fernandhino if he was unavailable, I wonder if Pep might consider using Kompany in this role when he eventually gets his fitness back.

Just a thought.

[nottsblue]

pep might have 4-2-4 in mind for certain games

Shades of Brazil (and Peru) circa 1970 !!

That would be interesting.

Every team played 4-2-4 (or something like it) until 1958, IIRC. Don't think it was especially Brazilian and if anything, I think they helped kill that formation by winning the world cup in 1958.

In the early/mid sixties, Real Madrid were still playing 4-2-4 but Barcelona (amongst others) started playing a 4-3-3 set up which seemed better balanced to some people. After that, Alf Ramsey started killing the attacking side of the game for England by opting, especially after 1966, to a more rigid pattern based on something akin to 4-4-2. Because of his apparent success, many nations followed suit.

In Chile in 1962, England payed 4-2-4, but by 1970 there were only a few sides lining up with this putatively 'outdated' formation, which made Brazil and Peru so joyous to watch and refreshingly different. I loved that Peruvian side and their quarter final game with Brazil was a feast of great attacking football with Brazil (unfortunately) running out as deserved 4-2 winners.

In England, for so many years after 1970, the 4-4-2 formation became almost set in concrete and mandatory for most managers and I still think this has contributed, to some extent, to England being tactically left behind by so many more progressive nations, albeit with technically better players, in the last few decades.


Just to change tack a little and going back to Pip's question of who could replace Fernandhino if he was unavailable, I wonder if Pep might consider using Kompany in this role when he eventually gets his fitness back.

Just a thought.

He was bought as a DM if I recall.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

pep might have 4-2-4 in mind for certain games

Shades of Brazil (and Peru) circa 1970 !!

That would be interesting.

Every team played 4-2-4 (or something like it) until 1958, IIRC. Don't think it was especially Brazilian and if anything, I think they helped kill that formation by winning the world cup in 1958.

In the early/mid sixties, Real Madrid were still playing 4-2-4 but Barcelona (amongst others) started playing a 4-3-3 set up which seemed better balanced to some people. After that, Alf Ramsey started killing the attacking side of the game for England by opting, especially after 1966, to a more rigid pattern based on something akin to 4-4-2. Because of his apparent success, many nations followed suit.

In Chile in 1962, England payed 4-2-4, but by 1970 there were only a few sides lining up with this putatively 'outdated' formation, which made Brazil and Peru so joyous to watch and refreshingly different. I loved that Peruvian side and their quarter final game with Brazil was a feast of great attacking football with Brazil (unfortunately) running out as deserved 4-2 winners.

In England, for so many years after 1970, the 4-4-2 formation became almost set in concrete and mandatory for most managers and I still think this has contributed, to some extent, to England being tactically left behind by so many more progressive nations, albeit with technically better players, in the last few decades.


Just to change tack a little and going back to Pip's question of who could replace Fernandhino if he was unavailable, I wonder if Pep might consider using Kompany in this role when he eventually gets his fitness back.

Just a thought.

He was bought as a DM if I recall.

He was but this isn't a DM role, it's a role I don't think Kompany's capable of playing. It's Guardiola's position after all.


http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/04/24/ ... idfielder/

[phips]

I dont think we have any one who can do it. I actually think fern is the most underrated player in the prem. Delph has the energy but is now where near the level of fernandinho

The prospect of seeing him in midfield with gundogan is rather exciting

Thing is who is going to the bench if we play them both?

Will one of them play at the inverted fullback role so they can push into centre midfield? Unless you plan to sit Silva or KDB, or have one of those two play out wide, where I suspect Pep prefers them not to be, and drop Nolito or Sterling or eventually Sane?

Tell you what. If we are fit team we sure have a lot of options.

im thinking it's gotta be Nolito is everyone is fit. maybe Pep sees its differently and values the wide areas and would then be okay sacrificing Silva because Ilkay could do his role.

Didn't Gundogan play as a deep lying playmaker for Dortmund? He filled Sahin's role, didn't he?

Anyhow, this is what Gundogan said that Pep said to him

"He told me that he needs a player like me as a central midfielder

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong but that suggests to me that he has him earmarked for the role Fernandinho is currently playing.

sigh...ill bite.

that is not what i said. i said i dont see him being good at dropping back in between the center halves aka doing to the defensive job that Fernandinho does. last year at Dortmund Weigl was the deepest midfielder. before that it was Kehl/Bender. that's why i said i can't see Ilkay filling Fern's role. they're different players. just like someone mentioned Fernando can do the defensive work but he can do the passing aspect. Yaya can do the passing aspect but not the defensive work, and thats how i feel about Ilkay (for different reasons than Yaya of course). but that's just me. Pep will probably prove me wrong.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

I dont think we have any one who can do it. I actually think fern is the most underrated player in the prem. Delph has the energy but is now where near the level of fernandinho

The prospect of seeing him in midfield with gundogan is rather exciting

Thing is who is going to the bench if we play them both?

Will one of them play at the inverted fullback role so they can push into centre midfield? Unless you plan to sit Silva or KDB, or have one of those two play out wide, where I suspect Pep prefers them not to be, and drop Nolito or Sterling or eventually Sane?

Tell you what. If we are fit team we sure have a lot of options.

im thinking it's gotta be Nolito is everyone is fit. maybe Pep sees its differently and values the wide areas and would then be okay sacrificing Silva because Ilkay could do his role.

Didn't Gundogan play as a deep lying playmaker for Dortmund? He filled Sahin's role, didn't he?

Anyhow, this is what Gundogan said that Pep said to him

"He told me that he needs a player like me as a central midfielder

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong but that suggests to me that he has him earmarked for the role Fernandinho is currently playing.

sigh...ill bite.

that is not what i said. i said i dont see him being good at dropping back in between the center halves aka doing to the defensive job that Fernandinho does. last year at Dortmund Weigl was the deepest midfielder. before that it was Kehl/Bender. that's why i said i can't see Ilkay filling Fern's role. they're different players. just like someone mentioned Fernando can do the defensive work but he can do the passing aspect. Yaya can do the passing aspect but not the defensive work, and thats how i feel about Ilkay (for different reasons than Yaya of course). but that's just me. Pep will probably prove me wrong.

What do you mean by you'll bite? I'm asking you a question because I was interested in hearing your thoughts on the subject, thank you for your reply.

[Crossie]

I remember watching Kompanys debut game as a DM. I think he misplaced one pass all game, he was awesome and immediately improved the team. I don't know if he could do it now, he's older and probably less mobile due to his injuries. Still, as a fill in for injuries he'd still be good enough for a couple of games.

[phips]

dont think this can be a move to RB for him. wonder if it's just trying to fit Fernandinho into the squad against sides who won't press.
for instance, Fern at RB vs. Monaco or vs. Liverpool would be madness.

but it is an interesting "issue". the front quartet of Sane, Silva, KDB, Sterling, and Jesus (or even Aguero subbed in there for someone) with Yaya pulling strings and "holding" behind seems to be working and Pep likes it. obviously it leaves out Fernandinho though. but with the age of our RBs (yes Fern isn't much younger) and Pep seeming to try and make Fern his new David Alaba maybe this RB move has some future.

[Dameerto]

dont think this can be a move to RB for him. wonder if it's just trying to fit Fernandinho into the squad against sides who won't press.
for instance, Fern at RB vs. Monaco or vs. Liverpool would be madness.

but it is an interesting "issue". the front quartet of Sane, Silva, KDB, Sterling, and Jesus (or even Aguero subbed in there for someone) with Yaya pulling strings and "holding" behind seems to be working and Pep likes it. obviously it leaves out Fernandinho though. but with the age of our RBs (yes Fern isn't much younger) and Pep seeming to try and make Fern his new David Alaba maybe this RB move has some future.

I think it's a case of him fitting Fernandinho in, Yaya's in good form so no reason to swap him out at the moment unless he plays too many games in a short space fo time.