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I can't help but think a lot of our slow build up is down to toure.
Whilst trying to stay positive I do have this major concern, he is a shadow of the player we know! He is slow, he reminds me of a lazier berbatov, if that's possible?!
Why is he not getting forward?
Has he been told to stand just in front of the defence?
I for one miss his driving powerful runs! The opposition were terrified of him before, now there's nothing to be scared of!
I want to see him pushed up more. But that's just my point of view. What do you guys think?

Agree. He is totally wasted in this defensive role he is playing and I think there are players in the squad that could do it better.

I just can't understand why they play him there. Most of the time he is picking the ball up in between the cb's then passes straight back to them.

He doesn't look slow, he just looks like he's doing a job.

He's always looked terrible defensively. In the title season, he'd often be poor for 70 minutes of a game and then be pushed forward and change the game.

Previously, we had Barry and or de Jong to provide the cover, allowing him to move forwards. With them gone and Garcia not being an adequate replacement, he's being held back. Hopefully Fernandinho, Rodwell and Milner can get into that role and free him up again.

At the start of the Stoke game, Yaya was fantastic; pushing forward, winning 50/50s etc. The game was scrappy, but actually the Count's system of pressing was actually working. Then he tired & started doing less of it. Then he slowed right down & in the end we were just wide open.

But Rodwell was barely any better.

Yaya is a great footballer, as is Fernandinho, & we should use them both to the best of their ability. Let some other fuckers do the covering jobs & let them have the freedom to move around & do a bit of everything, which is what they do best.

While Barry was good at covering, last season he slowed down play a lot too, all the balls went through him. one thing we are missing is central mid who is creative, not a dm who will short pass it to someone or bang it up field.

city9_4eva wrote:I can't help but think a lot of our slow build up is down to toure.
Whilst trying to stay positive I do have this major concern, he is a shadow of the player we know! He is slow, he reminds me of a lazier berbatov, if that's possible?!
Why is he not getting forward?
Has he been told to stand just in front of the defence?
I for one miss his driving powerful runs! The opposition were terrified of him before, now there's nothing to be scared of!
I want to see him pushed up more. But that's just my point of view. What do you guys think?

Pellers is holding toure back, telling him not to attack too much. Toure himself has expressed he dislikes but its the managers decision

MilnersJaw wrote:While Barry was good at covering, last season he slowed down play a lot too, all the balls went through him. one thing we are missing is central mid who is creative, not a dm who will short pass it to someone or bang it up field.

Barry and de Jong were water carriers. We've now got a thoroughbred doing the same job. He does it badly and we lose the attacking threat, so it's lose lose.

Maybe holistic means square pegs in round holes

He's obviously playing to orders. Those orders are stupid. But I always thought he was going to be a problem to accommodate what with our surfeit of just in behind players and no natural holders.Surely the best idea would be to have the deeper two mids alternate. So Ya Ya runs and is covered by Rod or Dino, then the reverse.But we're getting none of it. To be fair that fits with what we were told about the count, he always plays with two holding, but that is neither Dino nor Ya Ya's game. Fecking weird if you ask me. Might make sense to play Richards rb and get Zab holding. Or(heaven forbid) put some faith in the snail.

getdressedmctavish wrote:He's obviously playing to orders. Those orders are stupid. But I always thought he was going to be a problem to accommodate what with our surfeit of just in behind players and no natural holders.Surely the best idea would be to have the deeper two mids alternate. So Ya Ya runs and is covered by Rod or Dino, then the reverse.But we're getting none of it. To be fair that fits with what we were told about the count, he always plays with two holding, but that is neither Dino nor Ya Ya's game. Fecking weird if you ask me. Might make sense to play Richards rb and get Zab holding. Or(heaven forbid) put some faith in the snail.

I agree with maybe giving Garcia a go and a good run of games to see if he can be our new Gareth Barry!!? But he only gets one more chance! This would then free up yaya to play where we are crying out for him to play.... Further up making those runs in the box!

This is the way it is going to be until Kompany and Richards return, thus psychologically creating a more competitive and effective back line.
Our defensive woes have created a ripple effect which, upon introspection, trickles right down to our attack.
It's an undesirable but unavoidable contingency arrangement in the guise of added pressure which has insinuated itself in midfield, which needs to press backwards towards defence as opposed to ideally pressing forward to attack.
Looking to Pellegrini as the source of our recent standard of play is unfounded, because honestly speaking he has no other option but to look further forward for support, despite his preferred strategy of orchestrating the beautiful attacking and progressive football that he has been assigned to realise, and which we would like to see.
Pellegrini has not failed us, circumstances have, and once the back line has stabilised, which I would imagine is a couple of weeks away (long before that dreaded December appraisal), our shared desire for performances like we've seen, from the Newcastle game to the 1-6 derby, will make an epic return, hopefully for as long as we need to re-ignite and cement a formidable title challenge.
I know that we all are worried that perhaps that magic has faded to a point of no forseeable return. The cliché that a chain is as strong as its weakest link rings true, but I have faith that once that chain has been effectively moulded back together, we will find that our lads still have it in them to be able to produce and even surpass what we've come to expect of them.
Believe.

Tim777 wrote:

Agree with everything Tim said and Yaya cannot be singled out, Fernandinho did a better job than Rodwell in sharing the load as DM. Rodwell was anonymous, if didnt see the starting lineup you might even wonder if he was there at all.

Tim777 wrote:This is the way it is going to be until Kompany and Richards return, thus psychologically creating a more competitive and effective back line.
Our defensive woes have created a ripple effect which, upon introspection, trickles right down to our attack.
It's an undesirable but unavoidable contingency arrangement in the guise of added pressure which has insinuated itself in midfield, which needs to press backwards towards defence as opposed to ideally pressing forward to attack.
Looking to Pellegrini as the source of our recent standard of play is unfounded, because honestly speaking he has no other option but to look further forward for support, despite his preferred strategy of orchestrating the beautiful attacking and progressive football that he has been assigned to realise, and which we would like to see.
Pellegrini has not failed us, circumstances have, and once the back line has stabilised, which I would imagine is a couple of weeks away (long before that dreaded December appraisal), our shared desire for performances like we've seen, from the Newcastle game to the 1-6 derby, will make an epic return, hopefully for as long as we need to re-ignite and cement a formidable title challenge.
I know that we all are worried that perhaps that magic has faded to a point of no forseeable return. The cliché that a chain is as strong as its weakest link rings true, but I have faith that once that chain has been effectively moulded back together, we will find that our lads still have it in them to be able to produce and even surpass what we've come to expect of them.
Believe.

I agree with some of that but Pellegrini could have prioritised a top centre back as a key signing. He clearly didn't, but he allowed Kolo to leave.

He also could have insisted on keeping Barry for the season & cashed in on Garcia instead. He also could have chosen to put a player like Rodwell in front of the back 4 & let Yaya & Fernandinho play their natural games.

He has decided on a system which he is currenltly insisting on playing, in all circumstances. His 'A' team for this involves two upfront, which weakens the midfield, & Yaya/Fernandinho as the only cover in front of the defence; a role which neither is very good at. So that weakens the midfield & the defence.

I agree completely that this is being made worse by the lack of confidence in the personnel defensively, but that is exactly what happened to Hughes' team. When they had a good day; they played great football & could give anyone a game. Then mistakes in defence gave the whole team the shitters & we would end up battling for a draw.

Mancini turned that on it's head & concentrated on defence first & the attack built onto that. Now the Count has turned that on its head & we are back to rebuilding our defensive tactics to fit in with the attacking plan.

This is as big a change as from Hughes to Mancini, which resulted in half a season of mainly mind numbing boredome & mediocrity whilst Bob taught the players his methods.

It seems stupid to me that we are trying to make all these changes at once & it could destroy our season if it doesn't work.

If it's a long term plan which everyone at the club is committed to & we are going to do it until we get it right & even sign/sell players to fit into it, then I can put up with it, but if it's just the Count trying to be clever there is no need for it.

There was nothing wrong with Mancini's main system. It just needed a bit more more inspiration & variation, which imo the Count could have provided. This huge overhaul just seems unnecessary.