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I met with a long time friend last night in Sarajevo. He's American, lives in Leipzig in Germany, and is a very, very dedicated antifascist. After 10-15 minutes, the conversation turned to football, possibly for the first time ever, and he started raving about the Fake Scum, saying that they had a strong following amongst the far-left in Germany, and regularly play pre-season friendlies with teams with strong AntiFa followings or connections.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? From reading about them on here, I thought a large part of their following was drawn from 70s-80s 'old school' hooligans, more normally associated with the far right...

Most of us in the 70s and 80s of youth age were old-school hooligans mate. Politics didn't feature too much though. Far right skinheads got involved in football more like.

If it is true i hope they lose every game. Politics of any kind has no place in Football.

That is a question for a Chelsea forum, Not sure you would ever get a straight anwser though.

I never quite get this far right = violent, far left = cheery sons of toil concept we have today. Without question the most dangerous buggers we have ever had in the world have all been lefties.

Stalin - c25 million deaths, Mao - ditto, pol pot, etc etc. Even Hitler was a national socialist. As far as Fascist ideals go (from fascista a bundle of twigs, one bends many are strong) the main names that come to mind are Mussolini and Pinochet who were also bonkers but arguably you'd want to live in one of their regimes than their left wing fellow lunatics. Politics is a circle and the further extreme you go the more you end up blurring into the other extreme as your ideologies meet up.

An example is hard core Trades Union members in this country can be anti- black, anti-gay anti everything that's different from them really but are members of left wing groups. This isn't just guess work, I worked in political research and have talked to them. Nice folk on the whole but could kick off at a moments notice. My point being that their views were "hard right" by today's way of understanding but their votes were hard left.

So to FSCUM, they're going to be mostly traditional fans of old. Def not prawn sandwich brigade. Catchment area will be typically Oldham, Salford (not the Quays) and other towns with a large benefits dependent community. Ergo you have a team right out of 3 or 4 decades ago and no different from the people I used to mostly stand with at City.

I've not seen much trouble at grounds recently. Apart from Sheffield Utd. They always seem to be up to no good. But then Yorkshire is a rule to itself.

Evenmydoghatesunited wrote: Politics is a circle and the further extreme you go the more you end up blurring into the other extreme as your ideologies meet up.

Always thought of it as a circle, as well. Difficult to see the difference between Stalin and Hitler, if you class Hitler as right wing.

Theoretically these days, extreme left would want to live on a collective where no one owns anything and we all work for each other. Far right would want to abolish government and let the market decide. In practice, both sides have the same view as the rest of the world where some have a lot and a lot have nothing, but do so with brutal oppression rather than charging you for owning a piece of land or having a spare room as our more cuddly versions would prefer.

5) No politics, political threads will be locked.

No politics and no religion in football.

Football has always been and probably always will be about politics. At this level anyway.

Slim wrote:5) No politics, political threads will be locked.

Agreed, and did worry that the topic would turn into a political platform.

J@SA - thanks for that. Suppose I'm only really aware of the later actions of firms/groups (Headhunters, Zulus, and, allegedly, Bushwackers) and their connection to Combat 18, National Front, etc, and just assumed that any hooliganism that was politicised would be toward the far right.

Breks - I also agree that in an ideal world the two would be entirely separate, but at the same time there are plenty of people on here and elsewhere who choose clubs to 'follow' in other countries (myself included) due to their fanbase's political leanings, as well as those who dislike Lazio and other clubs primarily due to their fans' notoriety for far-right support.

Evenmydoghatesunited wrote:I never quite get this far right = violent, far left = cheery sons of toil concept we have today. Without question the most dangerous buggers we have ever had in the world have all been lefties.

Stalin - c25 million deaths, Mao - ditto, pol pot, etc etc. Even Hitler was a national socialist. As far as Fascist ideals go (from fascista a bundle of twigs, one bends many are strong) the main names that come to mind are Mussolini and Pinochet who were also bonkers but arguably you'd want to live in one of their regimes than their left wing fellow lunatics. Politics is a circle and the further extreme you go the more you end up blurring into the other extreme as your ideologies meet up.

An example is hard core Trades Union members in this country can be anti- black, anti-gay anti everything that's different from them really but are members of left wing groups. This isn't just guess work, I worked in political research and have talked to them. Nice folk on the whole but could kick off at a moments notice. My point being that their views were "hard right" by today's way of understanding but their votes were hard left.

So to FSCUM, they're going to be mostly traditional fans of old. Def not prawn sandwich brigade. Catchment area will be typically Oldham, Salford (not the Quays) and other towns with a large benefits dependent community. Ergo you have a team right out of 3 or 4 decades ago and no different from the people I used to mostly stand with at City.

I've not seen much trouble at grounds recently. Apart from Sheffield Utd. They always seem to be up to no good. But then Yorkshire is a rule to itself.

You are seriously confusing political model (totalitarianism) with political spectrum. There has been totalitaristic societies with both right wing and left wing ideals. You could even argue that any non-parlamentary monarchy is totalitarian state by definition.

You'd be hard pushed to find far left person with totalitarian ideals these days whereas most far right people are also highly critical of democracy.

Slim wrote:5) No politics, political threads will be locked.

I know this is a long standing rule but why is it in place?

Where do you draw the line? John68 posted an excellent post the other day about the politics of football which almost prompted me to start a thread about the future of football and the politics behind it but I presumed it would be pulled because of that rule. I can't imagine it would have offended anyone just like this thread doesnt and I think quite a few posters could have contributed pretty intereting views.

Johns post never got pulled up but the substance behind it was just as political as anything discussed in this thread. Given the money and globalisation of the game almost everything this club does these days off the pitch can be classed as political manoeuvring. I am more likely to spend more time on the board debating stuff like this, our global ambitions or where the game is going than talking about our new kit.

BlueinBosnia wrote:I met with a long time friend last night in Sarajevo. He's American, lives in Leipzig in Germany, and is a very, very dedicated antifascist. After 10-15 minutes, the conversation turned to football, possibly for the first time ever, and he started raving about the Fake Scum, saying that they had a strong following amongst the far-left in Germany, and regularly play pre-season friendlies with teams with strong AntiFa followings or connections.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? From reading about them on here, I thought a large part of their following was drawn from 70s-80s 'old school' hooligans, more normally associated with the far right...

definitely true about the left-link, although most of the bellends there would'nt understand it - like most places.

Ross,
Thanks for compliment, appreciated Mate.
TBH, when composing that post, I never considered it's possible wider general political implications.

I think the rule on here is generally a good one but there has to room for the inclusion of the "Politics Of Football", which though it exists in the wider political World, it is a major factor in the games future, which has direct implications for our club and the direction we move in. That also has a direct influence on we supporters, particularly in how it may affect us financially.

I do think there is a separation of the subject matter.

Evenmydoghatesunited wrote:Without question the most dangerous buggers we have ever had in the world have all been lefties.

I wouldn't question your assertion that the authoritarian left and the extreme right are difficult to separate in terms of levels of violence and oppression.

But they're amateurs compared with the religious. Mass murder is most effectively practiced by people with an imaginary friend.

They played two teams in germany this summer.
Babelsberg 09 witch has at least a big antifacist following.
Dynamo Dresden, witch is the counterpart of this. They wanted to sort this out at the club , but a big hooligan and nazi element in their following.

TomS wrote:They played two teams in germany this summer.
Babelsberg 09 witch has at least a big antifacist following.
Dynamo Dresden, witch is the counterpart of this. They wanted to sort this out at the club , but a big hooligan and nazi element in their following.

Thanks, yep Babelsburg is the team he mentioned, and he implied it's a regular fixture. I'll have to update him on the Dresden game, though! ;)

Arjan Van Schotte wrote:definitely true about the left-link, although most of the bellends there would'nt understand it - like most places.

What's the reason for this, then? Is it old Rags who always had left leanings, those that became disenfranchised with football's relationship to capitalism, or a 'new breed' of supporters who have chosen FCUM as an anti-capitalist protest club?

BlueinBosnia wrote:I met with a long time friend last night in Sarajevo. He's American, lives in Leipzig in Germany, and is a very, very dedicated antifascist. After 10-15 minutes, the conversation turned to football, possibly for the first time ever, and he started raving about the Fake Scum, saying that they had a strong following amongst the far-left in Germany, and regularly play pre-season friendlies with teams with strong AntiFa followings or connections.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? From reading about them on here, I thought a large part of their following was drawn from 70s-80s 'old school' hooligans, more normally associated with the far right...

Part of the reason is the "our club has been taken from us", an anti-corporate pro-community sentiment that has alot of resonance in all sorts of places. Hence some European lefties think that FCUM is a shining light. Personally, I've never bought it.

Too many look at football in the past with rose-tinted spectacles. Clubs in this country have never been owned by the people and were generally owned and ran by local capitalists trying to build up their standing as big men. To listen to some of these FCUM idealists you'd think that the Edwards family were solid social democrats, friends and supporters of the poor and oppressed throughout the world! Just empty populism.

It might not be a popular view, and I agree that there's loads wrong with how the game is run, but, I if there is a new corporate elite taking over the game, then IMHO they are doing a better job than the old lot. And I count myself as being one of the "far left" -whatever that means). Big capitalists tend to be better than little capitalists at running capitalist enterprises.

As for the no politics bit, millions of people pay billions of pounds to watch the game. Millions of people are emotionally involved with their clubs, they aren't going to leave their politics at the stadium gates. Indeed, under some dictatorships, football was one of the few ways to express their politics. Yet they rarely involve themselves in the politics of the game. Perhaps if football supporters were more political then we wouldn't have the likes of that idiot Blatter running the game.

Lev Bronstein wrote:

BlueinBosnia wrote:I met with a long time friend last night in Sarajevo. He's American, lives in Leipzig in Germany, and is a very, very dedicated antifascist. After 10-15 minutes, the conversation turned to football, possibly for the first time ever, and he started raving about the Fake Scum, saying that they had a strong following amongst the far-left in Germany, and regularly play pre-season friendlies with teams with strong AntiFa followings or connections.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? From reading about them on here, I thought a large part of their following was drawn from 70s-80s 'old school' hooligans, more normally associated with the far right...

Part of the reason is the "our club has been taken from us", an anti-corporate pro-community sentiment that has alot of resonance in all sorts of places. Hence some European lefties think that FCUM is a shining light. Personally, I've never bought it.

Too many look at football in the past with rose-tinted spectacles. Clubs in this country have never been owned by the people and were generally owned and ran by local capitalists trying to build up their standing as big men. To listen to some of these FCUM idealists you'd think that the Edwards family were solid social democrats, friends and supporters of the poor and oppressed throughout the world! Just empty populism.

It might not be a popular view, and I agree that there's loads wrong with how the game is run, but, I if there is a new corporate elite taking over the game, then IMHO they are doing a better job than the old lot. And I count myself as being one of the "far left" -whatever that means). Big capitalists tend to be better than little capitalists at running capitalist enterprises.

As for the no politics bit, millions of people pay billions of pounds to watch the game. Millions of people are emotionally involved with their clubs, they aren't going to leave their politics at the stadium gates. Indeed, under some dictatorships, football was one of the few ways to express their politics. Yet they rarely involve themselves in the politics of the game. Perhaps if football supporters were more political then we wouldn't have the likes of that idiot Blatter running the game.

agree with most, cheers lev, and tom.