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Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:12 pmby Ted Hughes
I am not knocking the plan yesterday because it worked, & like Dazby mentioned; it was City who were going to score the next goal if that game had another 20 mins to go, not Liverpool .
But it was pretty clear to me that technically we were unbalanced in midfield & there was sometimes a big gap down the middle giving Liverpool an out ball to Suarez or midfield runners etc, equally drawing out Vinny into rash challenges.
Yaya does not move fast enough to cover & Fernandinho can't be everywhere. We had a hole in the middle.
We have succeeded with this kind of attacking lineup at home v everyone bar Bayern, but if this game had been played at Anfield, I think we would have lost, or at least drawn if we gave Liverpool the same space. I can see that it gives us an extra man in attack & that it's wining us games, no problem. But now, the title is going to be decided by how we fare v the best teams away from home.
Surely most of these teams will have to be trying to beat us on their own grounds, so we don't have to draw them out; they will come out themselves ?
Imagine another Fernandinho right in the middle, a player with pace, skill, power; in place of Silva or Nasri ( who were both fine, but do we need both specifically for games like yesterday, but away from home) would we lose that much in an attacking sense or gain total domination ?
Or for example, if we had a player who was basically DeRossi age 26, available in the squad rather than Garcia; surely we could start him in such games ?
Would we seize up as an attacking force if we had Yaya, Fernandinho & a 26 year old DeRossi, or would Fernandinho just break forward with Yaya & take the oppo apart ? He was one of our most dangerous attackers late in that game.
Imagine going to Anfield with, for example, a young DeRossi, Fernandinho, Yaya, Navas, & Silva (or Nasri) playing as deep 2nd striker, behind Aguero.
Worse option than playing both Nasri & Silva or better ?
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:44 pmby Mikhail Chigorin
Hmmm....interesting.
Just as an aside, Ted, do you have anyone specifically in mind who could be the "26 year old De Rossi" ??
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:58 pmby Foreverinbluedreams
26 year old defensive midfielder? Matuidi from PSG fits the criteria, I believe we're keeping tabs on him.
That said whenever I've seen Garcia play that role for us he's done well. It's when he plays in a two man midfield that he looks out of his depth.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:38 pmby nottsblue
Call me stupid but James Milner?
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:42 pmby Fidel Castro
Vidal
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:45 pmby Hutch's Shoulder
Ted Hughes wrote:I am not knocking the plan yesterday because it worked, & like Dazby mentioned; it was City who were going to score the next goal if that game had another 20 mins to go, not Liverpool . But it was pretty clear to me that technically we were unbalanced in midfield & there was sometimes a big gap down the middle giving Liverpool an out ball to Suarez or midfield runners etc, equally drawing out Vinny into rash challenges. Yaya does not move fast enough to cover & Fernandinho can't be everywhere. We had a hole in the middle. We have succeeded with this kind of attacking lineup at home v everyone bar Bayern, but if this game had been played at Anfield, I think we would have lost, or at least drawn if we gave Liverpool the same space. I can see that it gives us an extra man in attack & that it's wining us games, no problem. But now, the title is going to be decided by how we fare v the best teams away from home. Surely most of these teams will have to be trying to beat us on their own grounds, so we don't have to draw them out; they will come out themselves ? Imagine another Fernandinho right in the middle, a player with pace, skill, power; in place of Silva or Nasri ( who were both fine, but do we need both specifically for games like yesterday, but away from home) would we lose that much in an attacking sense or gain total domination ? Or for example, if we had a player who was basically DeRossi age 26, available in the squad rather than Garcia; surely we could start him in such games ? Would we seize up as an attacking force if we had Yaya, Fernandinho & a 26 year old DeRossi, or would Fernandinho just break forward with Yaya & take the oppo apart ? He was one of our most dangerous attackers late in that game. Imagine going to Anfield with, for example, a young DeRossi, Fernandinho, Yaya, Navas, & Silva (or Nasri) playing as deep 2nd striker, behind Aguero. Worse option than playing both Nasri & Silva or better ?
I tend to agree that more mobility in the midfield Central two is one big area where we can prove in the summer, but I am not sure about "But now, the title is going to be decided by how we fare v the best teams away from home"; there are so many teams still involved who will take points of each other that it may be decided by who takes most at home and most off the rest. We will see. As I said in the other thread I would be surprised to see big signings in January because I don't think worthy and available players are out three. Always happy to be proved wrong though.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:45 pmby Ted Hughes
Mikhail Chigorin wrote:Hmmm....interesting.
Just as an aside, Ted, do you have anyone specifically in mind who could be the "26 year old De Rossi" ??
No not at all.
There are young midfielders making a name for themselves here & there, but which ones could step into that role, I don't know. I expect our scouts to have an idea.
Just to clarify, I'm absolutely not talking about a defensive mid here, I'm talking about an alrounder, who can do a bit of everything. I mentioned DeRossi as an example of a multi talented player who could both defend plus run the game, but a carbon copy of Fernandinho would suit just as well.
Of course the ideal for this job would be Colin Bell, but there has never been another.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:57 pmby Ted Hughes
Hutch's Shoulder wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:I am not knocking the plan yesterday because it worked, & like Dazby mentioned; it was City who were going to score the next goal if that game had another 20 mins to go, not Liverpool . But it was pretty clear to me that technically we were unbalanced in midfield & there was sometimes a big gap down the middle giving Liverpool an out ball to Suarez or midfield runners etc, equally drawing out Vinny into rash challenges. Yaya does not move fast enough to cover & Fernandinho can't be everywhere. We had a hole in the middle. We have succeeded with this kind of attacking lineup at home v everyone bar Bayern, but if this game had been played at Anfield, I think we would have lost, or at least drawn if we gave Liverpool the same space. I can see that it gives us an extra man in attack & that it's wining us games, no problem. But now, the title is going to be decided by how we fare v the best teams away from home. Surely most of these teams will have to be trying to beat us on their own grounds, so we don't have to draw them out; they will come out themselves ? Imagine another Fernandinho right in the middle, a player with pace, skill, power; in place of Silva or Nasri ( who were both fine, but do we need both specifically for games like yesterday, but away from home) would we lose that much in an attacking sense or gain total domination ? Or for example, if we had a player who was basically DeRossi age 26, available in the squad rather than Garcia; surely we could start him in such games ? Would we seize up as an attacking force if we had Yaya, Fernandinho & a 26 year old DeRossi, or would Fernandinho just break forward with Yaya & take the oppo apart ? He was one of our most dangerous attackers late in that game. Imagine going to Anfield with, for example, a young DeRossi, Fernandinho, Yaya, Navas, & Silva (or Nasri) playing as deep 2nd striker, behind Aguero. Worse option than playing both Nasri & Silva or better ?
I tend to agree that more mobility in the midfield Central two is one big area where we can prove in the summer, but I am not sure about "But now, the title is going to be decided by how we fare v the best teams away from home"; there are so many teams still involved who will take points of each other that it may be decided by who takes most at home and most off the rest. We will see. As I said in the other thread I would be surprised to see big signings in January because I don't think worthy and available players are out three. Always happy to be proved wrong though.
We have to play the top teams away. They have all been to our place bar Chelsea. We are all very closely packed together, so we have to produce some results against some of those teams or we will be basing our hopes on the others all having a worse 2nd half of the season compared to the first.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:02 pmby Twobob
nottsblue wrote:Call me stupid but James Milner?
I've said before that I think James would fill in there and do a job, i'd like to see how he'd fair also but it would take some of the advantage away from what he offers going forwards. He'd be no worse than Garcia without a doubt.
A mid 3 of Ferdi, Yaya and Milner would be fairly strong with both Ferdi and Milner being considerably more mobile than Yaya and each would be able to compliment a counter attacking style of play we may need against the better teams at their place. I just think Milner maybe lacking in defensive positioning which would be his weakness in that kind of role - he is more attack minded.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:29 pmby Hutch's Shoulder
Ted Hughes wrote: We have to play the top teams away. They have all been to our place bar Chelsea. We are all very closely packed together, so we have to produce some results against some of those teams or we will be basing our hopes on the others all having a worse 2nd half of the season compared to the first.
They all have to play each other again too. Some of them will be better than in the first half and some worse.
I'm not denying these will be important games of course, but those games alone will not decide our fate.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:15 pmby Foreverinbluedreams
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:28 pmby Dubciteh
A fit Rodwell tick those boxes?
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:52 amby Slim
Vidal is easily the guy we want, however I think in terms of what we have on the books right now, Zabaleta is probably the guy, if Richards ever stays fit and gets form back I think it's an outside the box option.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:24 amby Twobob
Slim wrote:Vidal is easily the guy we want, however I think in terms of what we have on the books right now, Zabaleta is probably the guy, if Richards ever stays fit and gets form back I think it's an outside the box option.
Be way too many haircare ranges there!
He does look like an animal on the pitch, a Dejong with forward ability - could have legs but he'd be cup tied for CL i'd assume?
Zabba's done it before and no reason why he cant do it again but would you take someone who's arguably one of the best right backs in the PL at the moment and move him into MF for Richards? We'd strengthen one area only to weaken another, sadly.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:09 amby Slim
Twobob wrote:Slim wrote:Vidal is easily the guy we want, however I think in terms of what we have on the books right now, Zabaleta is probably the guy, if Richards ever stays fit and gets form back I think it's an outside the box option.
Be way too many haircare ranges there!
He does look like an animal on the pitch, a Dejong with forward ability - could have legs but he'd be cup tied for CL i'd assume?
Zabba's done it before and no reason why he cant do it again but would you take someone who's arguably one of the best right backs in the PL at the moment and move him into MF for Richards? We'd strengthen one area only to weaken another, sadly.
I am not sure the rule on Europa players being registered for CL, I think there was some strange rule where if they weren't in the competition anymore after the group stage he could be transferred and registered but I am not sure if they had to be completely out of Europe or if Europa still had him tied. Cup tied players is such an archaic notion anyway and completely pointless now with the transfer windows preventing last minute ringers.
However he is aptly described as the most complete midfielder in the world, he has a great passing range, tracking and covering ability and even lends his weight to the attacking third. If you were looking with a player with no weakness in his game, I'd say he's your guy. To say he's a bulldog of a player is kind of a disservice as that doesn't even begin to cover it.
As for Richards/Zabs. Richards was well on his way to becoming a great right back himself, he has some flaws in his game for certain, but Zabs to centremid and Richards to rightback is a lot stronger than Zabs at right back and Garcia in the centre of the park. All academic anyway as I don't believe Richards will ever be a player who can be relied upon anymore as he appears to be made of a substance glass smashes through completely unscathed.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:54 amby Bleed_Blue
Slim wrote:Vidal is easily the guy we want, however I think in terms of what we have on the books right now, Zabaleta is probably the guy, if Richards ever stays fit and gets form back I think it's an outside the box option.
I do not watch seria A much but is Cambiasso better than Vidal ?
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editor ... ID=HP_FT_2
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:45 amby City64
This analysis happened because we started with Navas and quite rightly so as scousepool had problems at left back . Navas didnt quite exploit this to the max but was effective and had a good game and like Ted has said the longer the game went on the more stretched scousepool were and we were the more likely to score . Fernandinho,s work rate is phenominal to say the very least but he cant be everywhere all of the time when we adopt this system when Navas starts against the quality teams . Also Silva is played in a much more forward role this season which is awesome leaving Nasri to do what he does best unfortunately Nasri wasnt quite at his best boxing day when we went with just the one striker ....... but like all great teams we got the result required for me.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:17 amby Ted Hughes
If we're talking someone to block off an area in front of the defence, then Zabba is a good shout & Demichelis imo would possibly be a better one, but I$m actually looking at the idea of putting a player in there who is dangerous from a creative sense not just a Nige type. I recon Fernandinho is a dangerous attacking option who we are only seeing in flashes. Another Fernandinho could, imo, cause all manner of problems for any oppo, but also make us that bit more difficult to open up. It's purely a balance thing to make us a bit more solid v the better teams, but without losing our attacking potency.
Vidal seems a decent shout but it's interesting to read the players linked with us on that blog, who are all more attainable.
This Argy kid we are reportedly signing in the summer, sounds like the identikit player for this job tbf.
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:41 amby Renato_CTID
Bleed_Blue wrote:Slim wrote:Vidal is easily the guy we want, however I think in terms of what we have on the books right now, Zabaleta is probably the guy, if Richards ever stays fit and gets form back I think it's an outside the box option.
I do not watch seria A much but is Cambiasso better than Vidal ?
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editor ... ID=HP_FT_2
Cambiasso? Just like Maicon was: too old for a rock 'n roll, and for Premier League games too!
Re: Man short in midfield (NOT GARCIA).
Posted:
Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:02 pmby Ted Hughes
The job David Luiz has done for Chelsea v Liverpool first half, is a kind of average version of what I'm talking about. He just chased down about 4 Liverpool mids one after the other, not stopping any of them, but causing all of them to release the ball quickly.
We would have had a big hole there, with the Liverpool players able to turn, look up, & Suarez to run in behind or in front of our centre backs, leaving them a huge problem. No Liverpool player had the time to pick a pass, purely down to Luiz. But it was also Luiz who picked the pass to the Chelsea wide player for the 2nd goal. Chelsea are actually attacking better than usual, so have lost nothing.
We are still winning at home without that kind of player but v Bayern home, we needed it & we may need it at Anfield & Arsenal.