The mancityfans.net football forum

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 10:27 am**

I was wondering about the draw for next season and whether we would make pot two this year as someone mentioned that Liverpool could still make Pot two, which is kinda weird as they haven't been in the comp for a while. So I took myself off to RAWK and found a good thread on it and someone has done the work for me.

RAWK THREAD

here are the permutations but it looks like we have made pot 2?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 10:44 am**

Where's the rags??

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 10:57 am**

Also 4th Placed team, will get a day off after the WC and build up to the Qualifiers, Knackered by Jan.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 12:28 pm**

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/ ... index.html

1 Real Madrid CF
ESP 22.585 33.642 36.171 29.542 37.428 159.371
2 FC Barcelona
ESP 30.585 36.642 34.171 27.542 28.428 157.371
3 FC Bayern München
GER 30.616 24.133 33.050 36.585 29.942 154.328
4 Chelsea FC
ENG 22.585 26.671 33.050 30.285 28.357 140.949
5 Manchester United FC
ENG 28.585 36.671 16.050 21.285 26.357 128.949
6 SL Benfica
POR 21.000 25.760 23.366 28.350 27.883 126.359
7 Club Atlético de Madrid
ESP 24.585 9.642 34.171 13.542 37.428 119.371
8 Valencia CF
ESP 19.585 21.642 25.171 22.542 24.428 113.371
9 Arsenal FC
ENG 25.585 22.671 22.050 21.285 21.357 112.949
10 FC Porto
POR 21.000 31.760 12.366 22.350 17.883 105.359
11 AC Milan
ITA 19.085 18.314 22.271 19.883 18.800 98.354
12 Olympique Lyonnais
FRA 28.000 19.150 19.100 14.350 16.700 97.300
13 FC Internazionale Milano
ITA 34.085 21.314 20.271 16.883 2.800 95.354
14 FC Schalke 04
GER 3.616 30.133 20.050 22.585 18.942 95.328
15 Borussia Dortmund
GER 3.616 10.133 10.050 33.585 24.942 82.328
16 Paris Saint-Germain
FRA 3.000 14.150 9.100 27.350 26.700 80.300
17 Juventus
ITA 18.085 8.314 2.271 25.883 24.800 79.354
18 FC Shakhtar Donetsk
UKR 11.160 26.016 9.550 18.900 12.566 78.193
19 Tottenham Hotspur FC
ENG 3.585 24.671 10.050 19.285 18.357 75.949
20 FC Basel 1893
SUI 7.150 10.180 20.200 17.675 20.440 75.645
21 FC Zenit
RUS 2.733 18.183 19.950 14.950 18.083 73.899
22 Manchester City FC
ENG 3.585 16.671 20.050 10.285 22.357 72.949
23 Bayer 04 Leverkusen
GER 3.616 16.133 19.050 12.585 18.942 70.328
24 Olympique de Marseille
FRA 17.000 20.150 21.100 6.350 5.700 70.300
25 FC Rubin Kazan
RUS 14.233 12.183 9.950 19.950 13.083 69.399
26 Sevilla FC
ESP 22.585 12.642 5.671 3.542 24.428 68.871
27 Olympiacos FC
GRE 17.580 2.520 17.520 10.880 19.220 67.720
28 PFC CSKA Moskva
RUS 21.233 16.183 17.950 3.450 8.083 66.899
29 PSV Eindhoven
NED 13.883 20.233 18.720 5.842 6.183 64.862
30 AFC Ajax
NED 10.883 15.233 14.720 9.842 11.183 61.862
31 SSC Napoli
ITA 3.085 9.314 21.271 8.883 18.800 61.354
32 Liverpool FC
ENG 24.585 15.671 3.050 12.285 3.357 58.9

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 12:57 pm**

john@staustell wrote:http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

1 Real Madrid CF
ESP 22.585 33.642 36.171 29.542 37.428 159.371
2 FC Barcelona
ESP 30.585 36.642 34.171 27.542 28.428 157.371
3 FC Bayern München
GER 30.616 24.133 33.050 36.585 29.942 154.328
4 Chelsea FC
ENG 22.585 26.671 33.050 30.285 28.357 140.949
5 Manchester United FC
ENG 28.585 36.671 16.050 21.285 26.357 128.949
6 SL Benfica
POR 21.000 25.760 23.366 28.350 27.883 126.359
7 Club Atlético de Madrid
ESP 24.585 9.642 34.171 13.542 37.428 119.371
8 Valencia CF
ESP 19.585 21.642 25.171 22.542 24.428 113.371
9 Arsenal FC
ENG 25.585 22.671 22.050 21.285 21.357 112.949

Great, so Arsenal will be in the top pot yet again, given nice easy ties against unknown East Europeans, the champions of Cyprus and Celtic. So they get through to the last 16, get hammered by a group winner yet still maintain their co-efficient, get fourth place at the same time and start the whole process off yet again.

For this they are considered the 9th best team in Europe? Better than Borussia Dortmund? PSG? Us? 6 fucking three, did UEFA hear about this at all?

Why not just give them a perpetual standing order of the money you get for being a last 16 loser, and give someone else a chance of playing in the competition? Fucking bedblockers.

I really want Wenger to piss off now so they have a MUFC-style meltdown and just fuck off to the moon, I'm sick to death of them. I even want Steve Baconface 2's side to beat them at Wembley, they piss me off more than even Liverpool now. I even prefer Tottenham to them...

This just rubs the FFP in, Arsenal have contributed nothing useful to European football for nearly ten years, but UEFA has this obsession with helping them.

EDIT: Notice Atletico have crawled above them. But UEFA will still wangle something that Arsenal get a better draw than them, even if they're European champions...

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 1:07 pm**

jimtolmie_tache wrote:
john@staustell wrote:http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

1 Real Madrid CF
ESP 22.585 33.642 36.171 29.542 37.428 159.371
2 FC Barcelona
ESP 30.585 36.642 34.171 27.542 28.428 157.371
3 FC Bayern München
GER 30.616 24.133 33.050 36.585 29.942 154.328
4 Chelsea FC
ENG 22.585 26.671 33.050 30.285 28.357 140.949
5 Manchester United FC
ENG 28.585 36.671 16.050 21.285 26.357 128.949
6 SL Benfica
POR 21.000 25.760 23.366 28.350 27.883 126.359
7 Club Atlético de Madrid
ESP 24.585 9.642 34.171 13.542 37.428 119.371
8 Valencia CF
ESP 19.585 21.642 25.171 22.542 24.428 113.371
9 Arsenal FC
ENG 25.585 22.671 22.050 21.285 21.357 112.949

Great, so Arsenal will be in the top pot yet again, given nice easy ties against unknown East Europeans, the champions of Cyprus and Celtic. So they get through to the last 16, get hammered by a group winner yet still maintain their co-efficient, get fourth place at the same time and start the whole process off yet again.

For this they are considered the 9th best team in Europe? Better than Borussia Dortmund? PSG? Us? 6 fucking three, did UEFA hear about this at all?

Why not just give them a perpetual standing order of the money you get for being a last 16 loser, and give someone else a chance of playing in the competition? Fucking bedblockers.

I really want Wenger to piss off now so they have a MUFC-style meltdown and just fuck off to the moon, I'm sick to death of them. I even want Steve Baconface 2's side to beat them at Wembley, they piss me off more than even Liverpool now. I even prefer Tottenham to them...

This just rubs the FFP in, Arsenal have contributed nothing useful to European football for nearly ten years, but UEFA has this obsession with helping them.

EDIT: Notice Atletico have crawled above them. But UEFA will still wangle something that Arsenal get a better draw than them, even if they're European champions...

You are obsessed with FFP.

Chill the bones matey, chill the bones. They won't all leave us and we won't fold.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 1:16 pm**

Original Dub wrote:
jimtolmie_tache wrote:
john@staustell wrote:http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

1 Real Madrid CF
ESP 22.585 33.642 36.171 29.542 37.428 159.371
2 FC Barcelona
ESP 30.585 36.642 34.171 27.542 28.428 157.371
3 FC Bayern München
GER 30.616 24.133 33.050 36.585 29.942 154.328
4 Chelsea FC
ENG 22.585 26.671 33.050 30.285 28.357 140.949
5 Manchester United FC
ENG 28.585 36.671 16.050 21.285 26.357 128.949
6 SL Benfica
POR 21.000 25.760 23.366 28.350 27.883 126.359
7 Club Atlético de Madrid
ESP 24.585 9.642 34.171 13.542 37.428 119.371
8 Valencia CF
ESP 19.585 21.642 25.171 22.542 24.428 113.371
9 Arsenal FC
ENG 25.585 22.671 22.050 21.285 21.357 112.949

Great, so Arsenal will be in the top pot yet again, given nice easy ties against unknown East Europeans, the champions of Cyprus and Celtic. So they get through to the last 16, get hammered by a group winner yet still maintain their co-efficient, get fourth place at the same time and start the whole process off yet again.

For this they are considered the 9th best team in Europe? Better than Borussia Dortmund? PSG? Us? 6 fucking three, did UEFA hear about this at all?

Why not just give them a perpetual standing order of the money you get for being a last 16 loser, and give someone else a chance of playing in the competition? Fucking bedblockers.

I really want Wenger to piss off now so they have a MUFC-style meltdown and just fuck off to the moon, I'm sick to death of them. I even want Steve Baconface 2's side to beat them at Wembley, they piss me off more than even Liverpool now. I even prefer Tottenham to them...

This just rubs the FFP in, Arsenal have contributed nothing useful to European football for nearly ten years, but UEFA has this obsession with helping them.

EDIT: Notice Atletico have crawled above them. But UEFA will still wangle something that Arsenal get a better draw than them, even if they're European champions...

You are obsessed with FFP.

Chill the bones matey, chill the bones. They won't all leave us and we won't fold.

Yeah, but what about Arsenal? What weird formula have UEFA devised that they can be seeded higher than Borussia Dortmund or PSG? It's all part of the same thing... protecting the existing elite. Imagine if Roger Federer was still being seeded number one at every tennis tournament because of what he was doing ten years ago? The game would be a joke.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 1:38 pm**

jimtolmie_tache wrote:
Yeah, but what about Arsenal? What weird formula have UEFA devised that they can be seeded higher than Borussia Dortmund or PSG? It's all part of the same thing... protecting the existing elite. Imagine if Roger Federer was still being seeded number one at every tennis tournament because of what he was doing ten years ago? The game would be a joke.

17th year in a row in the competition you bellend.

The arse hardly even compare to scouse or spurs or rags for me. They are like a small animal at the petting zoo that once in a while has an adventurous half-nip at a child just missing their fingers.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 2:06 pm**

DoomMerchant wrote:
17th year in a row in the competition you bellend.

The arse hardly even compare to scouse or spurs or rags for me. They are like a small animal at the petting zoo that once in a while has an adventurous half-nip at a child just missing their fingers.

And that entitles them to a top seeding?

The system should be closer to tennis, in which the last one or at most two or three seasons are taken into account AND performance in the domestic league. It's self-perpetuating... Arsenal are getting these 17 consecutive seasons because of the revenue stream from constantly getting into the last 16 of the competition, which they do because they constantly get easier group draws, which they do through constantly being seeded first. What do they contribute when they get there? Nothing.

If they were given the second or third seeding which they deserve, they'd be in the Europa League by January, would struggle considerably domestically and we'd at last see the back of them.

I honestly didn't mind them in the 90s, when they had Overmars and Bergkamp, and were the only real challengers to the Rags... I loved how they chased down the title in 1998. But they are a serious block on us ever doing well in the Champions League, because they are getting high seedings they don't deserve... and so they get the easy opponents and we, as another English club, get what's left, the 'Hall of Fame', 'Group of Death' or whatever. It didn't quite work that way last season, because of Dortmund's ridiculously low seeding, but I can see another fiasco next season when we have a really tough group compared to theirs.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 2:09 pm**

jimtolmie_tache wrote:
DoomMerchant wrote:
17th year in a row in the competition you bellend.

The arse hardly even compare to scouse or spurs or rags for me. They are like a small animal at the petting zoo that once in a while has an adventurous half-nip at a child just missing their fingers.

And that entitles them to a top seeding?

The system should be closer to tennis, in which the last one or at most two or three seasons are taken into account AND performance in the domestic league. It's self-perpetuating... Arsenal are getting these 17 consecutive seasons because of the revenue stream from constantly getting into the last 16 of the competition, which they do because they constantly get easier group draws, which they do through constantly being seeded first. What do they contribute when they get there? Nothing.

If they were given the second or third seeding which they deserve, they'd be in the Europa League by January, would struggle considerably domestically and we'd at last see the back of them.

it only takes the last 5 seasons into account. E.G. if Liverpool crash and burn in the Champs league group they will be pot 4 next year.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 2:17 pm**

Wonderwall wrote:it only takes the last 5 seasons into account. E.G. if Liverpool crash and burn in the Champs league group they will be pot 4 next year.

If I continue with the tennis analogy, when has a qualifier ever been seeded number one at Wimbledon? But that is what Arsenal are, 'qualifiers', they are football's equivalent of the Challenger veteran who slogs his way through Roehampton to get into the main draw. Finishing 4th and having to qualify should automatically mean you're in the fourth pot. What use to us was getting past Arsenal into 3rd place in 2011? What reward did we get for it? It was a great achievement when you consider their experience at that point compared to ours, but it didn't matter a jot when we got to the UCL draw.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 2:19 pm**

jimtolmie_tache wrote:
Wonderwall wrote:it only takes the last 5 seasons into account. E.G. if Liverpool crash and burn in the Champs league group they will be pot 4 next year.

If I continue with the tennis analogy, when has a qualifier ever been seeded number one at Wimbledon? But that is what Arsenal are, 'qualifiers', they are football's equivalent of the Challenger veteran who slogs his way through Roehampton to get into the main draw. Finishing 4th and having to qualify should automatically mean you're in the fourth pot. What use to us was getting past Arsenal into 3rd place in 2011? What reward did we get for it? It was a great achievement when you consider their experience at that point compared to ours, but it didn't matter a jot when we got to the UCL draw.

Thats a good analogy mate, I am not defending UEFA, I like yours better! but not all countries get 4 spots. Its not as easy as that.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 2:47 pm**

Cant wait for next years CL, principally becaue Utd aren't in it - bliss.

"Its Champions League Tuesday, or as Utd fans call it - Tuesday." Ill never get tired of that gag all next season.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 2:58 pm**

It really does show how fucked up the system is, and for a simple reason - 'Give those teams who've made the CL chance to maintain the status quo'.

As Jimbo says, what have Arsenal done for the CL in the last few years apart from leech money from it? Then, the Dippers, who've not stepped on CL soil for an eternity have still got a chance of Pot 2? Really, how wrong can this competition be?

I know we need it for the added revenue and to get our face on the world stage but by fuck I hate the whole set-up of it, including the fact that 3rd place drops into a lesser competition and effectively cancel out 7 or 8 months hard graft for those who had to start early.

And then, we get fucking FFP!!!

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 3:23 pm**

I seem to recall that Chelsea got more points for winning the Waffer league than the runners up in the Champions league. There is plenty wrong with the system, the equal weighting for each of the 5 years taken into consideration, the tiny weighting associated with performance in the relevant domestic league and the total disregard for the opposition in each game. So you get more points for beating a pre-qualifier from Lithuania than you do for drawing with Barcelona. But if it was fair there'd be nothing to moan about.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 4:23 pm**

Won't we get a boost next year, since we didn't get any co-efficients for 09-10 and those who got them won't have them counted next year?

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 6:28 pm**

john@staustell wrote:http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/ ... index.html

1 Real Madrid CF
ESP 22.585 33.642 36.171 29.542 37.428 159.371
2 FC Barcelona
ESP 30.585 36.642 34.171 27.542 28.428 157.371
3 FC Bayern München
GER 30.616 24.133 33.050 36.585 29.942 154.328
4 Chelsea FC
ENG 22.585 26.671 33.050 30.285 28.357 140.949
5 Manchester United FC
ENG 28.585 36.671 16.050 21.285 26.357 128.949
6 SL Benfica
POR 21.000 25.760 23.366 28.350 27.883 126.359
7 Club Atlético de Madrid
ESP 24.585 9.642 34.171 13.542 37.428 119.371
8 Valencia CF
ESP 19.585 21.642 25.171 22.542 24.428 113.371
9 Arsenal FC
ENG 25.585 22.671 22.050 21.285 21.357 112.949
10 FC Porto
POR 21.000 31.760 12.366 22.350 17.883 105.359
11 AC Milan
ITA 19.085 18.314 22.271 19.883 18.800 98.354
12 Olympique Lyonnais
FRA 28.000 19.150 19.100 14.350 16.700 97.300
13 FC Internazionale Milano
ITA 34.085 21.314 20.271 16.883 2.800 95.354
14 FC Schalke 04
GER 3.616 30.133 20.050 22.585 18.942 95.328
15 Borussia Dortmund
GER 3.616 10.133 10.050 33.585 24.942 82.328
16 Paris Saint-Germain
FRA 3.000 14.150 9.100 27.350 26.700 80.300
17 Juventus
ITA 18.085 8.314 2.271 25.883 24.800 79.354
18 FC Shakhtar Donetsk
UKR 11.160 26.016 9.550 18.900 12.566 78.193
19 Tottenham Hotspur FC
ENG 3.585 24.671 10.050 19.285 18.357 75.949
20 FC Basel 1893
SUI 7.150 10.180 20.200 17.675 20.440 75.645
21 FC Zenit
RUS 2.733 18.183 19.950 14.950 18.083 73.899
22 Manchester City FC
ENG 3.585 16.671 20.050 10.285 22.357 72.949
23 Bayer 04 Leverkusen
GER 3.616 16.133 19.050 12.585 18.942 70.328
24 Olympique de Marseille
FRA 17.000 20.150 21.100 6.350 5.700 70.300
25 FC Rubin Kazan
RUS 14.233 12.183 9.950 19.950 13.083 69.399
26 Sevilla FC
ESP 22.585 12.642 5.671 3.542 24.428 68.871
27 Olympiacos FC
GRE 17.580 2.520 17.520 10.880 19.220 67.720
28 PFC CSKA Moskva
RUS 21.233 16.183 17.950 3.450 8.083 66.899
29 PSV Eindhoven
NED 13.883 20.233 18.720 5.842 6.183 64.862
30 AFC Ajax
NED 10.883 15.233 14.720 9.842 11.183 61.862
31 SSC Napoli
ITA 3.085 9.314 21.271 8.883 18.800 61.354
32 Liverpool FC
ENG 24.585 15.671 3.050 12.285 3.357 58.9

By my reckoning if we are at no.22 there are at least 6 sides above us who are not likely to be in champs league next year. Does this mean by default we move up to 16 and assuming there isn't a side below us who has done brilliantly in Europe this year we go to pot 2?

As we did well in Europe, five matches won, surely our own co-efficient will increase.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 6:56 pm**

I am amazed that there are still people who seem shocked at the unfairness of this. The whole point of the coefficients being designed by the old G14 was to be unfair. There would have been no point in them designing it had been fair. It is doing the job the designers intended it to do. Keep the old order at the top to maximise their income and let the rest scrabble for the crumbs.

This has nothing whatsoever to with justice or even football, it is and has always been about income and global brands. Arsenal have not failed. Maybe in the hearts and minds of football fans but who gives a shit for fans? Arsenal certainly don't.

Wenger and his paymasters reckon top four is an achievement....it connects them annually to the big income channels and to global exposure. It guarantees a high level of income. To try and win a trophy would mean spending and damaging the bank account. It also ensures their coefficient is annually topped up and Pot 1 gives them an easy ride through to next years profit margins.

Football at the top level is a carve up.

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2014 8:55 pm**

jimtolmie_tache wrote:
Wonderwall wrote:it only takes the last 5 seasons into account. E.G. if Liverpool crash and burn in the Champs league group they will be pot 4 next year.

If I continue with the tennis analogy, when has a qualifier ever been seeded number one at Wimbledon? But that is what Arsenal are, 'qualifiers', they are football's equivalent of the Challenger veteran who slogs his way through Roehampton to get into the main draw. Finishing 4th and having to qualify should automatically mean you're in the fourth pot. What use to us was getting past Arsenal into 3rd place in 2011? What reward did we get for it? It was a great achievement when you consider their experience at that point compared to ours, but it didn't matter a jot when we got to the UCL draw.

The reward is supposedly automatic qualification as opposed to a two-legged tie against some minnows. However, I assume the wins that Arsenal recorded against whoever the minnows were that year just increases their coefficient that much further. Ridiculous system.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2014 1:16 am**

jimtolmie_tache wrote:
If I continue with the tennis analogy, when has a qualifier ever been seeded number one at Wimbledon? But that is what Arsenal are, 'qualifiers', they are football's equivalent of the Challenger veteran who slogs his way through Roehampton to get into the main draw. Finishing 4th and having to qualify should automatically mean you're in the fourth pot. What use to us was getting past Arsenal into 3rd place in 2011? What reward did we get for it? It was a great achievement when you consider their experience at that point compared to ours, but it didn't matter a jot when we got to the UCL draw.

Arsenal are not cock blocking our progress in Europe...we are!

Did Wenger tell the count to tuck his penis between his legs and do a pussy trick vs Barca at home? Did Stan Fucking Kroenke beg Mancini to fuck around like a university kid doing a research paper on Football Manager the two prior seasons?

A: No.

Their pot isn't fucking us up. Hell Pellers could have beat Bayern by enough to get a better match up this year alone if he could count or was better briefed by someone.

Doomy 6 7 6
Tolmtache 2 6 4

Cheers

The mancityfans.net football forum

UCL pots for next season

UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season

Re: UCL pots for next season