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Is this the end of Tiki-Taka as we know it? The style or brand of football popularised by Spain, Barcelona and latterly Guardiolas Bayern, has recently started to divude opinion. Is it boring? Are sides just passing for the sake of it? Is it exciting enough?

Certainly, it can be. Barcelona under Guardiola were immense, but again, how much of their success was down to Messi? Spain however, when winning the world cup in 2010 only won their last four games 1-0. Hardly the stuff legends are made of.

With Spain crashing out early and Barcelonas star waning, will we see a more direct approach? Costa, for one and Negredo, aren't forwards who thrive on this style of play. Nor is Llorente. Navas on the wing would inject much needed pace. Has Tiki-Taka simply had its day?

Football and succesfull teams go in cycles. Spain are coming to the end of theirs. A brave new way.....

Been saying it for a long time, need pace, power and possession. Those with that are dominating. As the Count showed, possession is the least important of the three, see Southampton at home. And inverted wingers?

What exactly are you asking?

Tiki taka is just a lazy term for a fantastic Barcelona side, exceptional at passing who organically transferred their style to the Spanish national side.

Of course nothing lasts, especially in international football. The France fallout in 2002 was just as spectacular as Spain's just that no one gave a bullshit brand to France's football.

These Spanish players have gotten older and it's hardly a surprise the original plan of constant pressing isn't working with the legs they now have in this environment.

Spain and Barcelona will decline if they don't refresh personnel but it doesn't mean Stoke City are the new holy grail blueprint of football.

Barca haven't been good at 'Tiki-Taka' for about three seasons now. At its peak it was unreal. The last couple of seasons (and this includes Spain too) have just been a pale imitation of it. It's kinda like arguing wing play is no longer good cos it's all that Moyes did at United (81 crosses in that game for example)..

It's fading not cos of Messi or cos it's fundamentally wrong but because their players are getting older and their high tempo has gone so they can't do it properly.

Possession with pace and intent will always top possession without it.

The problem was when barca and Spain were at their peak none of the teams with pace and intent got a sniff of possession.

Pretty Boy Lee wrote:Possession with pace and intent will always top possession without it.

The problem was when barca and Spain were at their peak none of the teams with pace and intent got a sniff of possession.

You make a good point, but Spain also had a great deal more pace about them a few years back (Villa, Torres, a younger Iniesta and Navas coming on late in the game). They also miss Carles Puyol something rotten.

I can't understand why Fabregas didn't come on at HT yesterday.

To be fair to Tika Tika, if it is "the end" it had a good run sweeping up 2 Euro champs, a World Cup, 2 Champs Leagues and umpteem domestic titles.

Spain looked leg weary and had zero pace - a dimension Navas normally gave them - and eventually football is a cyclical business and things evolve.

Didnt help that their Keeper and back 4 were poor in both games either. Spain/Barca have had a lot of ups in the past 6 years so its hard to feel too sorry for them. Theyve been great to watch and provided so good football, but now its maybe someone else's turn.

A period for a national team that almost everyone enjoyed.

Tika Taka started with strikers on the end of it. Then they went to playing without a striker. Then Costa, which seems the same as playing without a striker!

All good news, rest for Silva's ankles.

Hazy2 wrote:A period for a national team that almost everyone enjoyed.

I didn't. Boring as hell. Give me the latest Chile team any day of the week.

I see this as a very natural development, although I thought it would take a longer time: Other teams saw what Barca and Spain was doing, took to it and then some teams developed it. The Swedish commentator yesterday talked about Bielsa at Athletic as one coach who took Barca's model one step further. I don't know about that specifically, but that's usually what happens at world cups. One trend fizzles out, most teams try to copy the new winning style.

Barca's success was built on the holy trinity that is Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, Spain's was built on replacing Messi with an in-form striker. Now Xavi has regressed and there's no striket yet to replace Villa, so it all went pear shaped.

However, I wouldn't jump the gun just yet. They have a fantastically inept coach in Del Bosque, a coach that has basically just been along for the ride and have let Iniesta, Alonso and Xavi do what they want in midfield. If he gets fired now and they replace him with someone who actually has an idea of how he wants to play, then I think this world cup might just be a blip. The real mistake took place in the two years preceeding this world cup, as del Bosque should have tried to rebuild his midfield and adapted his style of play to Silva, Koke, etc. Silva is a fantastic player but he just doesn't fit in the type of play Xavi and Iniesta like.

I also think the comparison with France around the millenium is a bad one, as France never dominated world football the way Spain has both on the national level and at club level. The comparison might grow into fruition if the Spanish Football Federation persist with del Bosque, which would be the equivalent of hanging on to Domenech because Zidane carried his team into the final at the world cup of 2006.

Alioune DVToure wrote:I can't understand why Fabregas didn't come on at HT yesterday.

I would suggest it was because they needed someone to match Chile's physicality in the centre of the park and drive the team forward rather than a stroppy little bottler.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Alioune DVToure wrote:I can't understand why Fabregas didn't come on at HT yesterday.

I would suggest it was because they needed someone to match Chile's physicality in the centre of the park and drive the team forward rather than a stroppy little bottler.

Then why did they play Torres? I bet you hadn't thougth of that huh!

Cocacolajojo wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Alioune DVToure wrote:I can't understand why Fabregas didn't come on at HT yesterday.

I would suggest it was because they needed someone to match Chile's physicality in the centre of the park and drive the team forward rather than a stroppy little bottler.

Then why did they play Torres? I bet you hadn't thougth of that huh!

Haha, I guess when you leave your most prolific striker of the modern era at home you've little choice but to play the narky cunt when your first choice is having another stinker.

Sorry, double post. Getting that resource limit message crap again.

Scatman wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:A period for a national team that almost everyone enjoyed.

I didn't. Boring as hell. Give me the latest Chile team any day of the week.

Them, or the Mexico team. They've been exciting to watch for years now.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Cocacolajojo wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Alioune DVToure wrote:I can't understand why Fabregas didn't come on at HT yesterday.

I would suggest it was because they needed someone to match Chile's physicality in the centre of the park and drive the team forward rather than a stroppy little bottler.

Then why did they play Torres? I bet you hadn't thougth of that huh!

Haha, I guess when you leave your most prolific striker of the modern era at home you've little choice but to play the narky cunt when your first choice is having another stinker.

Mmm. True dat.

Scatman wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:A period for a national team that almost everyone enjoyed.

I didn't. Boring as hell. Give me the latest Chile team any day of the week.

David Silva, is the last player I would call boring , as I said almost.

Hazy2 wrote:

Scatman wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:A period for a national team that almost everyone enjoyed.

I didn't. Boring as hell. Give me the latest Chile team any day of the week.

David Silva, is the last player I would call boring , as I said almost.

And I wouldn't say our style is "tiki taka", not sure how you'd describe it, "slow slow, FAST". Spray the ball around, look for an opening, slice them open like a scalpel.

Hazy2 wrote:

Scatman wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:A period for a national team that almost everyone enjoyed.

I didn't. Boring as hell. Give me the latest Chile team any day of the week.

David Silva, is the last player I would call boring , as I said almost.

I'm not talking about individual players, I'm talking about the system