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We've had many instances of rule changes lately, from the inception of FFP in the Premier & Champions League to a bottle of white foam that gets on players toes, but the last 2 that have been proposed from the Chairman of the FA and the Chief Exec of the PFA seem to be going to extremes that may upset the make-up of the PL.

Greg Dyke is talking about not giving work permits to non-EU members to encourage the growth of 'Home-Grown Players' and Taylor is now saying that we need to have at least 4 home-grown players in the starting 11. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all up for a better England team but surely this isn't the answer and the question should be asked of the FA and their grass roots policy, especially as we have a vastly inferior number of badged coaches compared to the other major players, mainly due to the cost.

And on a similar note, a few mentioned how the Rags, Arse and Dippers were buying up all the best English talent around. Did they know something the rest didn't; is it them who are pushing for this in the background?

Beefymcfc wrote:We've had many instances of rule changes lately, from the inception of FFP in the Premier & Champions League to a bottle of white foam that gets on players toes, but the last 2 that have been proposed from the Chairman of the FA and the Chief Exec of the PFA seem to be going to extremes that may upset the make-up of the PL.

Greg Dyke is talking about not giving work permits to non-EU members to encourage the growth of 'Home-Grown Players' and Taylor is now saying that we need to have at least 4 home-grown players in the starting 11. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all up for a better England team but surely this isn't the answer and the question should be asked of the FA and their grass roots policy, especially as we have a vastly inferior number of badged coaches compared to the other major players, mainly due to the cost.

And on a similar note, a few mentioned how the Rags, Arse and Dippers were buying up all the best English talent around. Did they know something the rest didn't; is it them who are pushing for this in the background?

I doubt other clubs are pushing for it - the rags are actually selling English players and Liverpool's purchases haven't set the world alight. I think it is another aspect of Dyke's mistaken crusade for quantity rather than quality. He should be concentrating on making English players so good they can't be kept out of the team, by better technique coached at all levels. If the plan to refuse work permits goes ahead without that, then the gaps are likely to be filled by more EU players rather than more English ones - unless Taylor's rule also comes in, which then short term would probably mean a reduction in the competitiveness of English teams in Europe.

I am all for a move towards homegrown British players being given a quota in squads. A gradual shift towards this would make the most sense being that there are few clubs who could afford to revamp their squad to that level in a single transfer window. The problem is we already pay a huge premium on players from England, only have to look at Luke Shaw for the proof of that.

Slim wrote:I am all for a move towards homegrown British players being given a quota in squads. A gradual shift towards this would make the most sense being that there are few clubs who could afford to revamp their squad to that level in a single transfer window. The problem is we already pay a huge premium on players from England, only have to look at Luke Shaw for the proof of that.

£ for lb they got a good deal for shaw

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Slim wrote:I am all for a move towards homegrown British players being given a quota in squads. A gradual shift towards this would make the most sense being that there are few clubs who could afford to revamp their squad to that level in a single transfer window. The problem is we already pay a huge premium on players from England, only have to look at Luke Shaw for the proof of that.

£ for lb they got a good deal for shaw

Very nice.

Every club would fill their squads with home grown players if a simple problem could be solved: in the main they aren't value for money. Or to put it another way, you can get a better player for the same, or less money. Quotas would just make the problem worse. The demand, and therefore the price, for home grown players would increase without any corresponding increase in quality. And by quality I don't mean just football ability. We've all seen promising young players who've reached a plateau, or even gone into decline because they have the wrong attitude.

One of the arguements in favour of quotas is that young players who play in the first team would be able to develop. Somehow, the influx of foreign players are taking the place of home grown players thus stunting their progress. On the surface, there seems some truth in this. Once you reach a certain level, you need to be promoted to improve yourself, if you don't get that chance you stagnate. But, I've seen loads of young players "been given their chance", most fall by the wayside: and we've seen a few at City.

To take an example, Adam Johnson was given his chance. He did some good things, scored some great and important goals, but wasn't consistently good enough to warrant a starting place. If Adam Johnson has failed to live up to his promise it isn't through lack of opportunity. Scott Sinclair just couldn't hack it. On the other hand Joe Hart and James Milner have earned their place in the squad by what they've done on the field.

There on people on here who are better qualified than I to say if there has been any youth player over the last 10 years, or longer, who was denied the chance to move into the first team because of lack of opportunity, rather than not being good enough. (I suppose Daniel Sturridge, but he was desperate to move, so I won't count him).

Football fans in this country pay a lot of money to watch a game: too much, too many segments of the population are being priced out of the game. If I pay to go to a match I want to see the best the club can get. Because of the premium paid for home grown players, the price might have to go up for no improvement in football quality.

The only way for young English/British players to reach the required standard is to make them compete, and succeed against the best. Improve coaching down to under 10 football, instil the right values in players and do away with quotas.

I don't like the idea of quotas - it's a small minded attempt to paper over the cracks - basically it is positive discrimination, which is still discrimination.
Maybe as Lev says, the best way to improve English players is to train them to a higher standard from scratch (which is what we are doing with our academy). Someone posted on here a while back about the difference in cost for becoming a qualified coach in England compared to Spain and it was eye wateringly expensive here, so they could lower the cost of coaching qualifications to encourage more coaches (even if the FA have to impose a Premier League 'tax' in order to raise funds to offer a subsidy) which will help to increase the coaching gene pool in English football - it is something Dyke could set in motion almost immediately if he took his thumb out of his arse and stopped playing to the media.

Lev Bronstein wrote:Every club would fill their squads with home grown players if a simple problem could be solved: in the main they aren't value for money. Or to put it another way, you can get a better player for the same, or less money. Quotas would just make the problem worse. The demand, and therefore the price, for home grown players would increase without any corresponding increase in quality. And by quality I don't mean just football ability. We've all seen promising young players who've reached a plateau, or even gone into decline because they have the wrong attitude.

One of the arguements in favour of quotas is that young players who play in the first team would be able to develop. Somehow, the influx of foreign players are taking the place of home grown players thus stunting their progress. On the surface, there seems some truth in this. Once you reach a certain level, you need to be promoted to improve yourself, if you don't get that chance you stagnate. But, I've seen loads of young players "been given their chance", most fall by the wayside: and we've seen a few at City.

To take an example, Adam Johnson was given his chance. He did some good things, scored some great and important goals, but wasn't consistently good enough to warrant a starting place. If Adam Johnson has failed to live up to his promise it isn't through lack of opportunity. Scott Sinclair just couldn't hack it. On the other hand Joe Hart and James Milner have earned their place in the squad by what they've done on the field.

There on people on here who are better qualified than I to say if there has been any youth player over the last 10 years, or longer, who was denied the chance to move into the first team because of lack of opportunity, rather than not being good enough. (I suppose Daniel Sturridge, but he was desperate to move, so I won't count him).

Football fans in this country pay a lot of money to watch a game: too much, too many segments of the population are being priced out of the game. If I pay to go to a match I want to see the best the club can get. Because of the premium paid for home grown players, the price might have to go up for no improvement in football quality.

The only way for young English/British players to reach the required standard is to make them compete, and succeed against the best. Improve coaching down to under 10 football, instil the right values in players and do away with quotas.

A fine post, LB.

Didn't I see that the PL is 'excepted'.

Because the 2 idiots mentioned don't have any power over the Premier.

Beefymcfc wrote:Greg Dyke is talking about not giving work permits to non-EU members to encourage the growth of 'Home-Grown Players' and Taylor is now saying that we need to have at least 4 home-grown players in the starting 11.

I'm massively against the current situation being EU-based.

I don't understand why a player from Bosnia & Herzegovina (i.e. Dzeko) has to be 'non-EU', while a player from Bosnia & Herzegovina with a Croatian passport is counted as EU, and therefore viewed as a more effective purchase, if all football-related factors are equal.

I fully understand that the legalities of the EU as a political bloc prevent discrimination between citizens of Member States of the EU in regard to labour movement, but, in seeing this, why didn't UEFA change the rules to allow all people from countries within the UEFA confederation to be considered equal when it comes to quotas? The way things are now just muddies the ground between politics and football, which UEFA, in an ideal world, should be trying as hard as possible to avoid.

The quality of coaching has to be improved for boys just starting the game. That's what David Sheepshanks is trying to achieve at St Georges Park. We had a high percentage of home grown players in the top division when we failed to qualify for the world Cup in the US. It's a pathetic excuse. We haven't got enough young english players who are good enough at the moment but that could change with time and the right technical coaching at a young age. As for stopping visas for non EU players it will just lead to an even greater number getting EU passports eg Brasilians getting Portuguese passports, South Americans getting Spanish or Portuguese passports, Africans getting French passports even Ukrainians getting Polish passports. Requiring clubs to play mediocre home grown players would kill the PL. Foreign players are hugely beneficial for our game. They attract people to come to matches and they improve english players who benefit from playing with and against them. They make the PL what it is; a huge success story round the world.

Its the sort of solution you expect some dozy twat in the pub to come up with, not some supposed educated football men with senior positions in the game
We've been shit at the national game since the 70s, way, way, before the influx of foreign players which is only really prevelant in the top flight