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Clearly not working is it after a terrible week , this is not a knee jerk thread / post but we are clearly a better functioning team and easier on the eye with just Aguero as a lone striker.

Thoughts anyone ?

Agree completely. Our team should be
Hart
Zaba Kompany Mangala Kolarov
Fernando Fernandinho
Milner Silva Jovetic
Aguero

I think we have to persist with Mangala for the time being and just play him into form, just like Kompany had to do years ago. No place for Yaya on current form, he's a liability just as much as Clichy

ayrshireblue wrote:Agree completely. Our team should be
Hart
Zaba Kompany Mangala Kolarov
Fernando Fernandinho
Milner Silva Jovetic
Aguero

I think we have to persist with Mangala for the time being and just play him into form, just like Kompany had to do years ago. No place for Yaya on current form, he's a liability just as much as Clichy

The worry for me, looking at your side there, is that there is Mangala, Jovetic and Fernando in there. I don't see anything in those 3 to instill confidence. Fernando, for example, looks utterly lost and out of his depth. Jovetic flits about but does very little. Mangala, after a stunning debut, looks terrified. Milner gets a lot of support on here and whilst he puts in a shift, he's just not every good at football, in my opinion.

I'd prefer to see DMC in there as that was a title proven partnership, as was Ferna in the middle instead of the statue we bought from Porto. It's not great, I know.

I agree with you about Managala but feel we just have to persevere with him which is possibly harsh on Demichelis because he has done very little wrong in a long time. Jovetic hasn't had a fair crack when he's been fit. By playing more regularly with Aguero and Silva those little flicks that go nowhere will either be cut out or start to find the man.

Just my thoughts ......

Pelligrini doesn't know his best team or formation this season , we have several top top players out of form , we are playing as a team below par but still missing plenty of chances . At the other end we are conceding soft goals easily . The manager has plenty of work to do .

We're simply not good enough when we haven't got the ball. That's no accident; we have too many players who are inconsistent at pressing the ball. Pellegrini wants consistent effort from the top two to press high up the pitch; neither Dzeko nor Aguero deliver. In midfield we have too many players who don't press consistently either; Silva Nasri Toure Navas. Milner can do a job but we lose some quality on the ball in playing him. I'd still play him on the left of midfield because of our defensive weakness on the left. The result of these weaknesses further up the pitch is that our back four get tested and it isn't a pretty sight. Vinny is giving away too many fouls and nearly got sent off yesterday Mangala is getting used to the CL and finding it hard and we have two left backs who are poor defenders. Pellegrini ought to be more tactically flexible but we won't really sort our problems out unless the players put in a real shift off the ball the way Mourinho insists his players, including the flair players, do.

On the positive side we dominated second half yesterday and looked good going forward. We were unlucky not to get a point, rattling the bar a couple of times.

We won the league with these tactics last season and not too many complained, in fact some were lambasted for mentioning it. What's the change?

A fair point Beefy. I think it's a combination of being sussed out and some key players somewhat off their game. I think teams now feel they can out hustle us in midfield and that our back four is then vulnerable. Both the CSKA manager and fat Sam talked about our weaknesses in the back four.

Beefymcfc wrote:We won the league with these tactics last season and not too many complained, in fact some were lambasted for mentioning it. What's the change?

The players don't seem to want to play these tactics anymore? I dunno what the change is but it's not working. Just because it worked in the past it doesn't mean it should be persisted with. I don't know whether it's a mental, tactical or simply just the wrong choice of players for each game but its most likely a combination of all three. Whatever it is the players and the team look jaded. Pretty much everyone is performing below their abilities last season with perhaps one or two exceptions - Milner being an obvious one - not just Yaya who i do agree has become an easy scapegoat, and we're not getting away with it and it looks like we need some fresh impetus injected into our team.

I don't have the answer obviously and i don't know if these things would work but I would try giving Fernandinho more games as I thought he was excellent last year and I do think Jovetic puts us immediately on the front foot every time he comes on. Those two are the obvious ones for me... Also, Aguero and Dzeko just aren't working as a partnership. I don't care about 2 up front, i don't think it matters how many you play up front when your players are this good but that's only on the caveat that the team is working hard and playing to its ability and your forwards are actually complimenting each other's games. These things aren't happening at the moment so something needs to happen, regardless of whether it worked last year or not.

It's a shame Lampard is injured too as you can see the benefit having a new player brings to the squad. New players bring a new way of thinking and new ideas to the attack and that can only be a good thing. Constant evolution should be encouraged. I wouldn't be averse to starting Lampard and Jovetic more and even giving a couple of EDS lads minutes here and there towards the end of games with the directive of just attacking and causing mayhem - Brandon Barker being one who does definitely deserve that.

ayrshireblue wrote:Agree completely. Our team should be
Hart
Zaba Kompany Mangala Kolarov
Fernando Fernandinho
Milner Silva Jovetic
Aguero

I think we have to persist with Mangala for the time being and just play him into form, just like Kompany had to do years ago. No place for Yaya on current form, he's a liability just as much as Clichy

Accepting, for the moment, your thoughts about persevering with Mangala, I think that's just about the best and most balanced line-up we could put out at this point in time.

However, it's flexible enough to be considered a 4-3-3 formation (which I really like), with Silva and Jovetic supporting Aguero up front and which would provide a fairly fluid arrangement. Milner might even be viable, more centrally, for the longed for 'box-to-box' role.

The concern I would have, however, would be that when injuries, loss of form and squad rotation come into play, the replacements who would be drafted in, just because they have different attributes, might nullify, to some extent, the flexibility and effectiveness of that formation. I also don't see Yaya fitting in very easily without some disruption, as it were.

On the plus side of things, that formation might make it easier for the EDS youngsters to immediately slot in to the first team, when they start to come through the system (hopefully very soon).

At the end of the day, although he might become a very fine player for us in time, I still wish that we hadn't bought Mangala in the summer, opting instead, with our FFP budgetary limitations, for another attacker. I also prefer DeMichelis and I still think he has a useful one or two seasons left in him, for us, which would have deferred the centre-back issue for a little time.

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:

ayrshireblue wrote:Agree completely. Our team should be
Hart
Zaba Kompany Mangala Kolarov
Fernando Fernandinho
Milner Silva Jovetic
Aguero

I think we have to persist with Mangala for the time being and just play him into form, just like Kompany had to do years ago. No place for Yaya on current form, he's a liability just as much as Clichy

Accepting, for the moment, your thoughts about persevering with Mangala, I think that's just about the best and most balanced line-up we could put out at this point in time.

However, it's flexible enough to be considered a 4-3-3 formation (which I really like), with Silva and Jovetic supporting Aguero up front and which would provide a fairly fluid arrangement. Milner might even be viable, more centrally, for the longed for 'box-to-box' role.

The concern I would have, however, would be that when injuries, loss of form and squad rotation come into play, the replacements who would be drafted in, just because they have different attributes, might nullify, to some extent, the flexibility and effectiveness of that formation. I also don't see Yaya fitting in very easily without some disruption, as it were.

On the plus side of things, that formation might make it easier for the EDS youngsters to immediately slot in to the first team, when they start to come through the system (hopefully very soon).

At the end of the day, although he might become a very fine player for us in time, I still wish that we hadn't bought Mangala in the summer, opting instead, with our FFP budgetary limitations, for another attacker. I also prefer DeMichelis and I still think he has a useful one or two seasons left in him, for us, which would have deferred the centre-back issue for a little time.

Not having Demi in the last few games has cost us big time imo....Demi has been an absolute rock since the latter part of last season and Mangala does not deserve top be ahead of him...regardless of the 32 mill he cost.
Mangala has been utter fuckign shite barring that one match against Chelsea...dreadful and hes fuckign slow ffs !!

Pellegrini isn't gonna change it. he's gonna ride his tactics until we win or he's sacked.

Fat Sam says there are a few Premiership managers who stick to the same tactics every game no matter what and that makes them easier to beat. He names Wenger Pellegrini and Rodgers. He's got a point. It's ridiculous to play the same way against Burnley and Real Madrid. If he carries on like that he'll lose his job. Of course, like Mancini, he can reasonably argue he won the Premiership title and a domestic Cup. Still that didn't save Mancini and it won't save Pellegrini. Given his age and the fact that his family don't live here he was never likely to be a long term appointment but I would have assumed at the outset three years rather than two. What might save him is the probable unavailability of Guardiola for the time being. Even so he needs to pick things up and soon.

The problem does NOT lie with playing two strikers. We scored over 150 goals last year using two or more strikers.

The problem is in the partnership of the said two strikers. It can also be attributed to the players deployed behind them. One up front. Two up up front. Doesn't really matter if the other eight or nine outfield players aren't singing from the same hymn sheet. If playing our players to fit a formation isn't working the answer is blindingly obvious. Drop one or two of them and play players who fit the formation. If Dzeko and Aguero can't form a partnership, amend it and play two forwards who complement one another. A bit like Aguero and Negredo did. If none of our forwards fit this capability then sell and buy some more. Does make you wonder what happens on the training ground. ( they sure as shit can't practice crossing).

The lack of pace in our general midfield play doesn't help, nor does injuries, but we should be able to overcome this.

I think Jovetic has been underused personally. Not really seen him and Kun together which is a shame as I think Jovetic would be the perect foil for Kun

I've no problem with two strikers, but it requires a few things we are not seeing.

Pressing. West Ham did it, we didn't. Can't have two bodies up top and neither shutting down. Tevez would have worked a treat in this system.

Midfielders to either press or take turns holding. Yes I know Fernando does it, but if we commit 2 strikers, 3 mids and a fb or 2 and don't make anything of it, the sucker punch tends to be waiting to happen.

Or lastly play Fernando as we thought he would in a mid 3 with fern and yaya and that way we have protection. Or sad as it makes ne to say it stop letting the fullbacks go forward so much.

Can't do none of the above, not be ruthless and win games.

Pretty Boy Lee wrote:I've no problem with two strikers, but it requires a few things we are not seeing.

Pressing. West Ham did it, we didn't. Can't have two bodies up top and neither shutting down. Tevez would have worked a treat in this system.

Midfielders to either press or take turns holding. Yes I know Fernando does it, but if we commit 2 strikers, 3 mids and a fb or 2 and don't make anything of it, the sucker punch tends to be waiting to happen.

Or lastly play Fernando as we thought he would in a mid 3 with fern and yaya and that way we have protection. Or sad as it makes ne to say it stop letting the fullbacks go forward so much.

Can't do none of the above, not be ruthless and win games.

Especially Clichy, his crosses are crap & he doesn't chase back to defend either. I know Alek doesn't either, but his crossing is brilliant

Two strikers is just fine. But Dzeko has played like a twat. When we play with one recognised striker either Silva or Yaya play so far forward they merely replace the missing striker.

I haven't even seen the game yet, but I've seen the others & imo, no matter how they are playing right now, Mangala, Fernando & Jovetic are fucking good players who can be a fantastic asset to the club.

I said when we signed Mangala though, that it could take a few seasons to adapt to the Prem & as we already had strong cb partnerships, we should use them & ease him in. I already know Jovetic is a great player through watching him previously & Fernando showed enough earlier that he can be a force. So far neither him nor Fernandinho have been match fit when I've seen them this season.

I have rarely seen Aguero & Dzeko link up since we signed them. The Beast was a great influence in improving that & they showed signs but if they are slipping back to their old ways, then either rotate them or one will have to go.

Dzeko was working harder than Aguero but if they are both back to loafing then the team can't carry both plus Silva Yaya unless all are on top form.

And that's been the problem imo. Post title, post World Cup they are all not quite there. It happens & it may just be a slightly off the pace season. If we haven't blown it by Jan, some fresh legs may boost it back up.

As for Fat Sam's comments; tell it to Real Madrid you fat cunt. Easy to play, my fucking arse. Let's see how his record head to head compares with Pellegrinis over the coming seasons.

The way the whole world has bought into this 2 x defensive midfielders and always put them into any formation that is offered up is crazy.

Lets have 1 x Def MF and play a 4-1-4-1 formation. Its every player duty to defend if they are on the pitch but give that particular person the special role of patrolling in front of the back line and only cross the 1/2 way line if he has too. this job should not be given to YAYA either, its either one of the Fern's.

Hart

Zaba - Kompany - Mangala - Kolarov

Fernando

(Navas) Milner - Toure - Silva - Jovetic(Nasri)

Aguero

Ted Hughes wrote:I haven't even seen the game yet, but I've seen the others & imo, no matter how they are playing right now, Mangala, Fernando & Jovetic are fucking good players who can be a fantastic asset to the club.

I said when we signed Mangala though, that it could take a few seasons to adapt to the Prem & as we already had strong cb partnerships, we should use them & ease him in. I already know Jovetic is a great player through watching him previously & Fernando showed enough earlier that he can be a force. So far neither him nor Fernandinho have been match fit when I've seen them this season.

I have rarely seen Aguero & Dzeko link up since we signed them. The Beast was a great influence in improving that & they showed signs but if they are slipping back to their old ways, then either rotate them or one will have to go.

Dzeko was working harder than Aguero but if they are both back to loafing then the team can't carry both plus Silva Yaya unless all are on top form.

And that's been the problem imo. Post title, post World Cup they are all not quite there. It happens & it may just be a slightly off the pace season. If we haven't blown it by Jan, some fresh legs may boost it back up.

As for Fat Sam's comments; tell it to Real Madrid you fat cunt. Easy to play, my fucking arse. Let's see how his record head to head compares with Pellegrinis over the coming seasons.

Thank goodness for that.

Fat Sam has been quoted a few times on this forum, after Saturday's game, as though he was some sort of new-age footballing visionary and, quite frankly, it's becoming tedious.

If he was such a managerial colossus and tactical visionary, we'd surely have got him, instead of Pellegrini, to replace Roberto.

He's just wanting his five minutes in the sun.