***city v the ref, sorry v barca match thread***

[freshie]

Got back from the match a bit ago. For what it's worth here are my post-match thoughts..

The players bottled it massively in the first half. For all the pre-match talk from Vinny and Nasri about showing Barca too much respect last season and how we weren't going to do that again, as soon as the whistle blew we went into our shells, seemingly overawed by the match and our opponents. Granted Barca have good players but give them as much time and space as we did and they will tear you apart and Messi especially had a field day in that first half. There is no way Pellegrini would have told the players to drop off Barca and give their players as much time on the ball as they wanted and to let them run at us at will so I can only imagine he was as frustrated and as angry as we were after that dreadful first half. It was so bad that their centre backs were running through our midfield as though it was non-existent as the team did not press them enough and this was what pissed me off more than anything else. I was really hoping we would press Barca from the front like we did so successfully against Newcastle on Saturday - I was hugely disappointed.

As the first half wore on more of our players went hiding and looked as though they simply didn't want the ball. I remember one occasion in the first half when Milner had the ball and everyone, including Silva, ran away from him!

Fernando did well in winning the ball but then looked scared of it when in possession and looked as though he wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible which caused us problems. So far he doesn't look good enough at this level and doesn't appear to be the upgrade on De Jong that we thought he would be

Kompany's poor form shows no sign of ending any time soon. He had a torrid first half and whilst not alone, the previous high standards he has set for himself highlight his mistakes more than anyone else's.

People are criticizing Pellegrini for playing with 2 strikers but it didn't seem to be a problem in the second half. I don't think it is entirely the system that was at fault but more the mentality of the players. Once we started playing with belief, aggression and tempo we showed that we could be a match for Barca, although I do think he should have brought Lampard not Bony on for Dzeko to change the system rather than making a like-for-like substitution

We need to be a lot smarter in Europe. Teams like Barca are very good at playing the refs and getting cheap free kicks - we need to wise up to this by either doing the same or not giving the ref the option to blow his whistle or we are never going to succeed in Europe

Barca are cheating cunts - especially ratboy

The odds are stacked against us to progress but Joe Hart's penalty save could prove to be huge. Fight til the end

[bayblue]

Not too bad a result in the end. Good second half and shame that the sending off put an end to our chances.

I've read all the stuff before and for the life of me cannot understand why we gave Busquets all the time in the world. We did it with Lahm last year.

I don't think the formation per se is the issue but one of Aguero or Dzeko had to be much more diligent.


Barca were lucky with their first and our heads dropped. Someone clearly told our lot to raise their game second half and they did. Credit to them and Pellers for that.

What did we learn about the players?
That we aren't good enough at the very highest level. From where I sat I actually really enjoyed how Barca could ping the ball quickly between themselves. Some of their touches, spatial awareness and speed of thought was outstanding.

We have some great players (and btw anyone who thinks Silva had a bad game tonight is talking through their arse) and we have some good players. Unfortunately our good players haven't got the skills above. They are good but not good enough to overcome as gifted a side as Barca. They need that one extra touch, they aren't quite as aware of the movement of the players round them, they haven't quite got the self belief etc. On this level people are right to call out Fernando etc.

But.. and here's the rub... there aren't that many great players in world football who are better than ours. With Messi we might have won. With their defenders instead of ours I very much doubt we would. With Iniesta, Busquets and Rakitic instead of Fernando, Milner and Nasri I think we just might.

[iwasthere2012]

I thought Fernando had a very good 2nd half & did exactly what we signed him to do, against one of the best sides in europe, which proves imo he is good enough.

I don't think he was any worse than anyone else first half & certainly better than the back 4, so, as with Jovetic, Navas, on other occasions, I don't even understand why he is a topic of conversation. It wasn't down to him that we lost, & if any individuals should be picked out, there are 4 or 5 at least, who are worth a mention before Fernando.

Did anyone notice Nasri's performance for instance ? Or Silva, Nasri, Dzeko, Aguero stood about, still, watching, whilst Milner & Fernando were looking for someone to pass to first half ?

Ted my first comment on here before the match was that for that line-up to work, Aguero and Dzeko would have to work their arses off. I suppose I should have lumped Silva and Nasri into that too, but the truth is who really thought that was going to happen.
I'm certainly not picking on Fernando alone, but I don't think he is capable of doing the job he was being asked to do tonight. I don't think Milner is either against a team of Barcelona's technical ability. If you put both of them in a five man midfield I think both may well have excelled. I know that's only speculation at this stage, but I would have given us a better chance of getting a foothold in that game. I think it would have been more sensible to have gone with one up top and not have risked putting ourselves out of the tie before we get to the second leg. I think we are still naive in Europe and a more pragmatic approach to getting ourselves past the round of 16 would be better.

They had 3 forwards, we had two. They had one ballwinning type midfielder. we had two. They had 4 shite defenders, we had 4 shite defenders.

They won because they passed theball to each other & pressed us. When we did the same, we were better but had an added threat aerially that they didn't.

They have Messi. swap him for Nasri, we win.

Some of that is true Ted. I don't agree with the last line. Yes their defenders aren't great as defenders, but what they have throughout the team are players that are technically comfortable with the game they play. They work their socks off when they haven't got the ball but they have the ability to retain it under pressure when they do inevitably win it back. We have too many players that aren't technically comfortable to try matching that.
Nasri wasn't playing well because he wasn't working hard enough, but Silva wasn't playing particularly well either, but at least they have the technical ability to retain the ball. You can't just give the ball to Barca particularly without extra cover for the uncomfortable back four that we have and expect anything different to happen. It has happened before with even with Yaya in the middle two, who can retain the ball and we've been overrun. We really need to be more pragmatic. We have the players that could take on Barca/Bayern/Real and beat them, but you can't just let them play to their strengths and expect to roll them over.
I'm not advocating that we play anti-football like Mourinho to get through, but pick our own team to our strengths and we can still attack with, perhaps a bit more tempered flare. I'd have favoured a more conservative set up for the first leg. As far back as I can remember even back in Shankly's time at Liverpool they always professed above all else keep yourself in the tie after the first leg. We have consistently left ourselves with a mountain to climb before we play with any purpose or fluidity. This takes the pressure of the second leg for the opposition.

[freshie]

I don't get the shit Joe Hart is getting from some people on this thread. His saves kept the scoreline respectable and he wasn't at fault for either goal so why some posters have singled him out is beyond me when there were many others in a blue shirt who were worse. Aguero did fuck all in the first half and was strolling about instead of pressing their defenders like he should have done yet gets away with it. Silva was hiding in the first half too but that doesn't get a mention either

[Hazy2]

The tie is quiet over they could have put it to bed they did a great job of leaving the door ajar, any thoughts I am booking Barca away have gone. Stupid tactics against a side we just fail to keep it simple and tight. Mistakes And nothing learned over time in the competition will have kicking ourself with regret as per last year mountain to climb and Barca get battered next round by a braver side with the bollocks to give to em. We have it in us to beat them we over complicate it for me.

[Ted Hughes]

Got back from the match a bit ago. For what it's worth here are my post-match thoughts..

The players bottled it massively in the first half. For all the pre-match talk from Vinny and Nasri about showing Barca too much respect last season and how we weren't going to do that again, as soon as the whistle blew we went into our shells, seemingly overawed by the match and our opponents. Granted Barca have good players but give them as much time and space as we did and they will tear you apart and Messi especially had a field day in that first half. There is no way Pellegrini would have told the players to drop off Barca and give their players as much time on the ball as they wanted and to let them run at us at will so I can only imagine he was as frustrated and as angry as we were after that dreadful first half. It was so bad that their centre backs were running through our midfield as though it was non-existent as the team did not press them enough and this was what pissed me off more than anything else. I was really hoping we would press Barca from the front like we did so successfully against Newcastle on Saturday - I was hugely disappointed.

As the first half wore on more of our players went hiding and looked as though they simply didn't want the ball. I remember one occasion in the first half when Milner had the ball and everyone, including Silva, ran away from him!

Fernando did well in winning the ball but then looked scared of it when in possession and looked as though he wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible which caused us problems. So far he doesn't look good enough at this level and doesn't appear to be the upgrade on De Jong that we thought he would be

Kompany's poor form shows no sign of ending any time soon. He had a torrid first half and whilst not alone, the previous high standards he has set for himself highlight his mistakes more than anyone else's.

People are criticizing Pellegrini for playing with 2 strikers but it didn't seem to be a problem in the second half. I don't think it is entirely the system that was at fault but more the mentality of the players. Once we started playing with belief, aggression and tempo we showed that we could be a match for Barca, although I do think he should have brought Lampard not Bony on for Dzeko to change the system rather than making a like-for-like substitution

We need to be a lot smarter in Europe. Teams like Barca are very good at playing the refs and getting cheap free kicks - we need to wise up to this by either doing the same or not giving the ref the option to blow his whistle or we are never going to succeed in Europe

Barca are cheating cunts - especially ratboy

The odds are stacked against us to progress but Joe Hart's penalty save could prove to be huge. Fight til the end

I recon that's pretty much spot on.

I agree with the fact that Fernando looked uncomfortable in possession, but I think part of that, is down to what you describe re Silva etc not looking for the ball. Had he been playing for Barca, he would have been spoilt for choice as to which player to give it to. At times, Silva & Nasri both deserted the midfield & left Milner, Fernando & the centre backs to sort it. We improved when Fernandinho came on.

This was happening also under Mancini, against teams such as Dortmind etc & makes me think we need some new faces in there for this competition in particular. Dzeko or Aguero should also have been dropping into the centre to fill midfield gaps but didn't do enough of it.

Messi on the other hand wanted the ball in all areas of the pitch & had the skill & pace to escape with it. He is better than Silva at every aspect of the game of football, & we are kidding ourselves at times when we say Silva is almost on that level but for goals etc. If we had a player with that ability to come & take the ball under pressure, we would be a genuine threat at winning this competition. We could play any formation with Messi in the team, & give anyone a game.

[Ted Hughes]

Not too bad a result in the end. Good second half and shame that the sending off put an end to our chances.

I've read all the stuff before and for the life of me cannot understand why we gave Busquets all the time in the world. We did it with Lahm last year.

I don't think the formation per se is the issue but one of Aguero or Dzeko had to be much more diligent.


Barca were lucky with their first and our heads dropped. Someone clearly told our lot to raise their game second half and they did. Credit to them and Pellers for that.

What did we learn about the players?
That we aren't good enough at the very highest level. From where I sat I actually really enjoyed how Barca could ping the ball quickly between themselves. Some of their touches, spatial awareness and speed of thought was outstanding.

We have some great players (and btw anyone who thinks Silva had a bad game tonight is talking through their arse) and we have some good players. Unfortunately our good players haven't got the skills above. They are good but not good enough to overcome as gifted a side as Barca. They need that one extra touch, they aren't quite as aware of the movement of the players round them, they haven't quite got the self belief etc. On this level people are right to call out Fernando etc.

But.. and here's the rub... there aren't that many great players in world football who are better than ours. With Messi we might have won. With their defenders instead of ours I very much doubt we would. With Iniesta, Busquets and Rakitic instead of Fernando, Milner and Nasri I think we just might.

Nah.

[bayblue]

I don't get the shit Joe Hart is getting from some people on this thread. His saves kept the scoreline respectable and he wasn't at fault for either goal so why some posters have singled him out is beyond me when there were many others in a blue shirt who were worse. Aguero did fuck all in the first half and was strolling about instead of pressing their defenders like he should have done yet gets away with it. Silva was hiding in the first half too but that doesn't get a mention either

Agree about Hart but you're plain wrong about Silva. What on earth did you see that makes you think he was hiding?

[bayblue]

Not too bad a result in the end. Good second half and shame that the sending off put an end to our chances.

I've read all the stuff before and for the life of me cannot understand why we gave Busquets all the time in the world. We did it with Lahm last year.

I don't think the formation per se is the issue but one of Aguero or Dzeko had to be much more diligent.


Barca were lucky with their first and our heads dropped. Someone clearly told our lot to raise their game second half and they did. Credit to them and Pellers for that.

What did we learn about the players?
That we aren't good enough at the very highest level. From where I sat I actually really enjoyed how Barca could ping the ball quickly between themselves. Some of their touches, spatial awareness and speed of thought was outstanding.

We have some great players (and btw anyone who thinks Silva had a bad game tonight is talking through their arse) and we have some good players. Unfortunately our good players haven't got the skills above. They are good but not good enough to overcome as gifted a side as Barca. They need that one extra touch, they aren't quite as aware of the movement of the players round them, they haven't quite got the self belief etc. On this level people are right to call out Fernando etc.

But.. and here's the rub... there aren't that many great players in world football who are better than ours. With Messi we might have won. With their defenders instead of ours I very much doubt we would. With Iniesta, Busquets and Rakitic instead of Fernando, Milner and Nasri I think we just might.

Nah.

Nah what?

[Ted Hughes]

I thought Fernando had a very good 2nd half & did exactly what we signed him to do, against one of the best sides in europe, which proves imo he is good enough.

I don't think he was any worse than anyone else first half & certainly better than the back 4, so, as with Jovetic, Navas, on other occasions, I don't even understand why he is a topic of conversation. It wasn't down to him that we lost, & if any individuals should be picked out, there are 4 or 5 at least, who are worth a mention before Fernando.

Did anyone notice Nasri's performance for instance ? Or Silva, Nasri, Dzeko, Aguero stood about, still, watching, whilst Milner & Fernando were looking for someone to pass to first half ?

Ted my first comment on here before the match was that for that line-up to work, Aguero and Dzeko would have to work their arses off. I suppose I should have lumped Silva and Nasri into that too, but the truth is who really thought that was going to happen.
I'm certainly not picking on Fernando alone, but I don't think he is capable of doing the job he was being asked to do tonight. I don't think Milner is either against a team of Barcelona's technical ability. If you put both of them in a five man midfield I think both may well have excelled. I know that's only speculation at this stage, but I would have given us a better chance of getting a foothold in that game. I think it would have been more sensible to have gone with one up top and not have risked putting ourselves out of the tie before we get to the second leg. I think we are still naive in Europe and a more pragmatic approach to getting ourselves past the round of 16 would be better.

They had 3 forwards, we had two. They had one ballwinning type midfielder. we had two. They had 4 shite defenders, we had 4 shite defenders.

They won because they passed theball to each other & pressed us. When we did the same, we were better but had an added threat aerially that they didn't.

They have Messi. swap him for Nasri, we win.

Some of that is true Ted. I don't agree with the last line. Yes their defenders aren't great as defenders, but what they have throughout the team are players that are technically comfortable with the game they play. They work their socks off when they haven't got the ball but they have the ability to retain it under pressure when they do inevitably win it back. We have too many players that aren't technically comfortable to try matching that.
Nasri wasn't playing well because he wasn't working hard enough, but Silva wasn't playing particularly well either, but at least they have the technical ability to retain the ball. You can't just give the ball to Barca particularly without extra cover for the uncomfortable back four that we have and expect anything different to happen. It has happened before with even with Yaya in the middle two, who can retain the ball and we've been overrun. We really need to be more pragmatic. We have the players that could take on Barca/Bayern/Real and beat them, but you can't just let them play to their strengths and expect to roll them over.
I'm not advocating that we play anti-football like Mourinho to get through, but pick our own team to our strengths and we can still attack with, perhaps a bit more tempered flare. I'd have favoured a more conservative set up for the first leg. As far back as I can remember even back in Shankly's time at Liverpool they always professed above all else keep yourself in the tie after the first leg. We have consistently left ourselves with a mountain to climb before we play with any purpose or fluidity. This takes the pressure of the second leg for the opposition.

We don't play.

Ciy's EDS today suffered from a similar thing, although they played with a lot more determination. But they couldn't pass it for shit. It was competition nerves i think rather than being scared of the oppo; well I'm certain it was. I think the first team suffer from both. They are scared of failure in the Champions League itself, & they are scared of teams like Barca.

They go missing. They are scared to push up & defend in the opponent's half, scared to pass the ball in case they lose it, panic defensively. If they line up in their own half & defend, like they did in Madrid; they fuck up.

The rags had the same thing where people like Cantona could barely do anything in Europe. Chelsea failed for years. Arsenal never did it. That's Silva etc for me. You can see Aguero has it (when fit) but I'm not convinced all the rest have. We can carry a few, but we need a couple moreplayers who believe it, to drag the rest through.

[freshie]

I don't get the shit Joe Hart is getting from some people on this thread. His saves kept the scoreline respectable and he wasn't at fault for either goal so why some posters have singled him out is beyond me when there were many others in a blue shirt who were worse. Aguero did fuck all in the first half and was strolling about instead of pressing their defenders like he should have done yet gets away with it. Silva was hiding in the first half too but that doesn't get a mention either

Agree about Hart but you're plain wrong about Silva. What on earth did you see that makes you think he was hiding?

The fact that he was running away from the City player in possession of the ball - one occasion in particular springs to mind where Milner had the ball and was desperately looking for someone to pass to. Silva was the closest player to him and instead of giving Milner an option and being available for the ball as he always is in the Prem, ran away from him. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. His only mitigation (if you can call it that) is that he wasn't alone in this. A prime example of how as a team we bottled it in the first half

Did you watch the game on tv? Not having a go just asking because if you did then you probably wouldn't have seen what I did

[Ted Hughes]

Not too bad a result in the end. Good second half and shame that the sending off put an end to our chances.

I've read all the stuff before and for the life of me cannot understand why we gave Busquets all the time in the world. We did it with Lahm last year.

I don't think the formation per se is the issue but one of Aguero or Dzeko had to be much more diligent.


Barca were lucky with their first and our heads dropped. Someone clearly told our lot to raise their game second half and they did. Credit to them and Pellers for that.

What did we learn about the players?
That we aren't good enough at the very highest level. From where I sat I actually really enjoyed how Barca could ping the ball quickly between themselves. Some of their touches, spatial awareness and speed of thought was outstanding.

We have some great players (and btw anyone who thinks Silva had a bad game tonight is talking through their arse) and we have some good players. Unfortunately our good players haven't got the skills above. They are good but not good enough to overcome as gifted a side as Barca. They need that one extra touch, they aren't quite as aware of the movement of the players round them, they haven't quite got the self belief etc. On this level people are right to call out Fernando etc.

But.. and here's the rub... there aren't that many great players in world football who are better than ours. With Messi we might have won. With their defenders instead of ours I very much doubt we would. With Iniesta, Busquets and Rakitic instead of Fernando, Milner and Nasri I think we just might.

Nah.

Nah what?

Swap those playes, they'd just find it even harder to stop Messi etc. Those lot wouldn't get near him plus Suarez, Neymar.

[Ted Hughes]

I don't get the shit Joe Hart is getting from some people on this thread. His saves kept the scoreline respectable and he wasn't at fault for either goal so why some posters have singled him out is beyond me when there were many others in a blue shirt who were worse. Aguero did fuck all in the first half and was strolling about instead of pressing their defenders like he should have done yet gets away with it. Silva was hiding in the first half too but that doesn't get a mention either

Agree about Hart but you're plain wrong about Silva. What on earth did you see that makes you think he was hiding?

The fact that he was running away from the City player in possession of the ball - one occasion in particular springs to mind where Milner had the ball and was desperately looking for someone to pass to. Silva was the closest player to him and instead of giving Milner an option and being available for the ball as he always is in the Prem, ran away from him. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. His only mitigation (if you can call it that) is that he wasn't alone in this. A prime example of how as a team we bottled it in the first half

It's not the first time.

I was blaming Mancini for it vs Dortmund, but Silva etc completely fucked off v Dortmnd & we ended up 424 when Rodwell Yaya got mugged & Dortmund scored.

Part of the reason people think we need 5 is becuade Messi goes looking for the ball whilst Silva, Nasri sometimes run away from it.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

can't wait to see who goes to ground first. iniesta a good shout, but now they have suarez too. so exciting!!

Please, Neymar in the side and you're guessing anyone else?

Funnily enough, I don't recall him going to ground once, although I don't recall him having the ball more than half-a-dozen times. I've had a couple, though.

[freshie]

Not too bad a result in the end. Good second half and shame that the sending off put an end to our chances.

I've read all the stuff before and for the life of me cannot understand why we gave Busquets all the time in the world. We did it with Lahm last year.

I don't think the formation per se is the issue but one of Aguero or Dzeko had to be much more diligent.


Barca were lucky with their first and our heads dropped. Someone clearly told our lot to raise their game second half and they did. Credit to them and Pellers for that.

What did we learn about the players?
That we aren't good enough at the very highest level. From where I sat I actually really enjoyed how Barca could ping the ball quickly between themselves. Some of their touches, spatial awareness and speed of thought was outstanding.

We have some great players (and btw anyone who thinks Silva had a bad game tonight is talking through their arse) and we have some good players. Unfortunately our good players haven't got the skills above. They are good but not good enough to overcome as gifted a side as Barca. They need that one extra touch, they aren't quite as aware of the movement of the players round them, they haven't quite got the self belief etc. On this level people are right to call out Fernando etc.

But.. and here's the rub... there aren't that many great players in world football who are better than ours. With Messi we might have won. With their defenders instead of ours I very much doubt we would. With Iniesta, Busquets and Rakitic instead of Fernando, Milner and Nasri I think we just might.

Sorry but it's you who is talking through their arse. How can he not have had a poor game if he wasn't good enough to overcome a side like Barca? How do you define a poor game - or a good game for that matter? He, along with many others, didn't play well enough. Not because he isn't capable - he would walk into that Barca midfield if based solely on technical ability - he just bottled it along with the rest of them in the first half

[freshie]

Not too bad a result in the end. Good second half and shame that the sending off put an end to our chances.

I've read all the stuff before and for the life of me cannot understand why we gave Busquets all the time in the world. We did it with Lahm last year.

I don't think the formation per se is the issue but one of Aguero or Dzeko had to be much more diligent.


Barca were lucky with their first and our heads dropped. Someone clearly told our lot to raise their game second half and they did. Credit to them and Pellers for that.

What did we learn about the players?
That we aren't good enough at the very highest level. From where I sat I actually really enjoyed how Barca could ping the ball quickly between themselves. Some of their touches, spatial awareness and speed of thought was outstanding.

We have some great players (and btw anyone who thinks Silva had a bad game tonight is talking through their arse) and we have some good players. Unfortunately our good players haven't got the skills above. They are good but not good enough to overcome as gifted a side as Barca. They need that one extra touch, they aren't quite as aware of the movement of the players round them, they haven't quite got the self belief etc. On this level people are right to call out Fernando etc.

But.. and here's the rub... there aren't that many great players in world football who are better than ours. With Messi we might have won. With their defenders instead of ours I very much doubt we would. With Iniesta, Busquets and Rakitic instead of Fernando, Milner and Nasri I think we just might.

Sorry but it's you who is talking through their arse. How can he not have had a poor game if he wasn't good enough to overcome a side like Barca? How do you define a poor game - or a good game for that matter? He, along with many others, didn't play well enough. Not because he isn't capable - he would walk into that Barca midfield if based solely on technical ability - he just bottled it along with the rest of them in the first half

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

We had every player back then & nobody got anywhere near the fucking ball.

Not seen a replay (only live) but I couldn't understand how the 3 (or was it 4?) players directly between the crosser and the six-yard box failed to close down the ball. Fucking appalling.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

If we'd started off with the bottle to get in and press we wouldn't be in desperate shit now.

It's fuck all to do with formations. It's bottle.

I wasn't sat in my usual seat as I get moved for CL games so that the press can have a good view. But the guy sat to my left kept blaming Pellegrini for our shitness and wouldn't have it when I said it was because our players lack bottle in Europe. We do not have the bottle to beat these Catalan cunts, simple as.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

My take on the game: first half shameful (from the players, en masse); second half much more like it, from the off, before the change of personnel. I think the tie is probably over but we have YAYA back for the second game so I'm not going to throw my passport into the fire just yet.

[Ted Hughes]

We had every player back then & nobody got anywhere near the fucking ball.

Not seen a replay (only live) but I couldn't understand how the 3 (or was it 4?) players directly between the crosser and the six-yard box failed to close down the ball. Fucking appalling.

It was poor. I think Vinny threw it all out of whack to start with, but really, what did Barca do in that move, that Burnley won't do if you let them ?

That's the very ball Navas gets slagged off for playing, because it goes straight to a defender. But we had nobody defending. Nobody stopping the cross.

They can all watch that on a video tomorrow, & none of them will be able to fully explain why they did what they did. I can: they bottled it. All of them. Same way sides bottle it at the swamp & make mistakes they wouldn't ordinarily make. Once Barca scored, we became Hull at Old Trafford, for half an hour.