FFP - time to challenge it's legality

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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Im_Spartacus » Tue May 19, 2015 11:50 am

Wooders wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:
The BIG risk of allowing FFP to relax now the likes of City and PSG are in, is that it could now allow the very characters in Russia and the Middle-East they wanted to deter, to take over some of the bigger clubs, or even smaller clubs and act irresponsibly, which seems crazy seeing as preventing that was allegedly the entire point of FFP in place !!


They wouldn't be able to spend loads of money and in-debt the club so in that respect ffp would work


Assuming a guy comes in and fronts all the money for a team of galacticos, then no debt is created, but a big future liability is created by player contracts. If he then sold the club on after a year for a profit, the financial risk to the new owner would be how the club would service the wage bill if they don't increase their commercial revenues.

Football is littered with stories of this exact scenario, where new owners who are successful business people full of ego, think they can be successful in generating revenue to match the liabilities they've taken on, fail, then take the club down with them. It's been going on virtually since football began, and the current FFP, even though it was brought in for the wrong reasons, at least seemed on the face of it, to address that.

There's nothing to stop a club running up 200m per year wage bill backed by say 100m revenue (and being unable to increase it through bad management) with the loss being converted into debt over time and the new owner being unable (or unwilling) to cover the increasing losses. The only way I can see there being any control over that situation is if the original owner was made personally liable to guarantee all footballing liabilities (eg contracts) written during their tenure. That would sort out the wheat from the chaff and make dodgy owners think twice about handing out big contracts if they weren't in it for the long haul.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Tue May 19, 2015 12:02 pm

DAVID GILL SCRAPS FFP FOR A SEASON AS UNITED STRUGGLE TO MAKE ENDS MEET…

May 19, 2015EPLGazette.com

Local lad David Gill
Ex Manchester United chief executive David Gill has finally succeeded in persuading Michel Platini to effectively scrap FFP next season to help his beloved United avoid severe FFP sanctions.

The lifelong United fan from Reading has confirmed that punishments next season will be lighter and easier to appeal with multi million pound fines on hold until further notice.

Manchester City and Paris St Germain both under Arab ownership were fined over €60m last season for breaking FFP rules which have now been made redundant and are both now fully expected to launch legal action in order to recoup the money from UEFA.

This all appears to be happening at the right time though for the biggest club in world football Manchester United, who have just scraped back into the champions league despite having a squad worth £350m.

The Greater Manchester side have recently posted their financial results and again have indicated that the clubs debt has risen. Along with lost revenue from match days and spending almost £200m last season the club it would appear they are realistically unable to spend big this season and still confirm to FFP guidelines.

EPLGazette spoke to an economics expert for a closer look at the situation – “Basically, Man United wouldn’t conform to FFP next season when their spending last season is taken into account. They’ve spent a lot of money, they’ve not won a trophy and if they finish 4th will still have to qualify for the Champions League”

“David Gill has been very smart and is using the excuse that UEFA feel FFP will be challenged successfully in European court to cover up the fact that he his changing the rules so Man United don’t fail FFP. It’s a total farce”

“Manchester City and Paris St Germain will have every right to appeal their fines last year and UEFA know the clubs will probably win. Regardless of how powerful Manchester United think they are, they have debt that has risen. In a normal household that would mean you weren’t living within your means. This is exactly the reason that FFP was introduced”

EPLGazette were outside Owed Trafford for some reaction ”

Kenny 34 from Sunderland – “It’s a joke mate. FFP is an evolving process and if it can be changed to help a historical club like United then so be it.

Garry 45 from Bolton – “I think it’s a great idea. FFP is pointless if it’s going to affect clubs like United.

Karl 23 from Düsseldorf – ” Clubs like United and Munich should be left alone. You are mucking with tradition when you penalise massive clubs like that.

Tom 25 from Manchester – ” I’m actually a blue mate. I’ve got to walk past this sh*t hole everyday to get to work. It’s a disgrace mate. The’ve increased their debt but that’s ok? We have no debt and are pouring millions into the local economy and we get fined. It’s a matter of time until this pond scum get found out, and they will. C’mon City!!


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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby zuricity » Tue May 19, 2015 12:08 pm

Nice one CARL.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby iwasthere2012 » Tue May 19, 2015 4:10 pm

zuricity wrote:Nice one CARL.

Apart from Carl's contribution above, I'm still waiting for someone in the press to come out and call this for what it is. I know Brennan and one or two others have written pieces about how FFP was a sham in the past. It's time some of the press actually earned an honest living and wrote something resembling journalism.
It should really be put out there what the last few years have been about and these pathetic reasons that they are putting forward for changing now should be exposed.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Hazy2 » Wed May 20, 2015 7:44 am

Good article by Samuels in the Mail today.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby john@staustell » Wed May 20, 2015 7:45 am

iwasthere2012 wrote:
zuricity wrote:Nice one CARL.

Apart from Carl's contribution above, I'm still waiting for someone in the press to come out and call this for what it is. I know Brennan and one or two others have written pieces about how FFP was a sham in the past. It's time some of the press actually earned an honest living and wrote something resembling journalism.
It should really be put out there what the last few years have been about and these pathetic reasons that they are putting forward for changing now should be exposed.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... en-it.html

I told you that Michel Platini was destroying football... finally even he has now seen it
UEFA want to relax their rules on the controversial Financial Fair Play
Michel Platini has finally seen what some of us knew eight years ago
Financial Fair Play in its current form destroys competitions
Whatever the two Milan clubs want, they seem to get from UEFA

By MARTIN SAMUEL - SPORT FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 23:10, 19 May 2015 | UPDATED: 01:40, 20 May 2015

Say what you like about Michel Platini, but he’s no slouch. It only took the ruination of the Bundesliga, the reduction of the giants of Italian football to neutered also-rans, the destruction of leagues across Eastern Europe, £100million-plus in unjustly levelled fines, the milking of fans for owner profit at clubs such as Newcastle, legal actions in double figures across Europe and the creation of a sinister, untouchable European elite for him to work out what some of us knew eight years ago.
Namely, this. ‘Those who despise Chelsea invariably fail to answer one basic question: how else is a team meant to break into the cosy club that is the Champions League, and remain there, without spending beyond its means?’ That was from a column in The Times published on February 21, 2007. You’re welcome. Weekly bulletins on similar lines have been issued since.

Hell, it’s been a long road but finally someone at UEFA saw sense. Financial Fair Play in its present form destroys competition. It creates, in Germany and elsewhere, worthless one-team leagues, it strangles investment and discourages new money from coming into the game. It makes heroes of profiteers like Mike Ashley and Karl Oyston and villains of enhancers such as Sheik Mansour and Jack Walker. It creates inevitabilities and foregone conclusions and values accountancy over ambition.
Its dismal mantra was adopted by some of football’s slowest minds, and as a result may yet destroy Queens Park Rangers. All of this was entirely predictable and, baby, I’ve got the back catalogue to prove it. Anyway, hate to say I told you so, as The Hives sang, so we’ll move on.
Here is today’s question. Why is it that whatever is good for the two Milan clubs also happens to be what is best for football, according to UEFA? Ever wondered that? Whatever the Milan clubs want, they get. When they wanted FFP, in it came; now they want more financial freedom, they get that, too.

Don’t be mistaken. The relaxation of UEFA’s wrecking ball regulation is a mighty positive for football, particularly if it ensures that, from here, owner investment must be a gift. UEFA should also consider simultaneously closing loopholes such as Roman Abramovich’s £1billion loan to Fordstam, the company through which he owns Chelsea. This would prevent another Portsmouth from occurring.
Yet there are plenty of clubs and recent developments that could be cited as highlighting the need for change in FFP rules. Bayern Munich’s stockpiling of the best domestic talent in Germany; the summer plundering of Southampton; nine consecutive title wins for BATE Borisov in Belarus; the failure to find a buyer for Everton; the fine of roughly £50m for Manchester City, despite their wonderful regeneration project in east Manchester.
Russian Roman Abramovich poured money into Chelsea and made them one of England's elite teams

Yet the name that is said to have provoked this rethink at UEFA is that of AC Milan. Silvio Berlusconi wants to sell his club, but can’t, because a new owner would need to spend heavily to move Milan from midtable torpor, and UEFA rules do not allow that. So now it’s all change.
When Platini introduced FFP, he cited the wishes of the club bosses as high onhis list of considerations. ‘It is mainly the owners who asked us to do something,’ he said before the Champions League draw in 2009. ‘Abramovich, Berlusconi and Massimo Moratti at Inter. They do not want to fork out any more.’
Not much of a philosophy, then, was it? I don’t want to spend my money, so you can’t either. I’ve got what I want, so let’s just pull up this drawbridge.

Abramovich, we know, was a turncoat. Having bought his way into the elite, he crossed the floor because he didn’t want other new owners matching his spending power and challenging Chelsea’s supremacy. These are the principles that Jose Mourinho now espouses as if they are (a) noble and (b) his own.
For Berlusconi and Moratti, however, it was different. Their clubs were part of the establishment, but maintaining that status with men like Abramovich around was becoming a huge financial drain. Tie spending power to revenue and that was the problem solved, they thought. The new owners from the east would be shackled and the status quo maintained.
What they had not anticipated was the parlous financial state of Italian football. Poor matchday revenues, underdeveloped commercial opportunities with many clubs not owning their stadiums and a TV deal which paled into insignificance beside the sums on offer in England and Spain. Suddenly committed to spending what they earned, the influence of the Milanese clubs collapsed.
In 2012, AC Milan sold their two best players, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Thiago Silva, and the current squad is a pale imitation of the glory days. Inter were largely jettisoned by Moratti in 2013 — he retained a stake of 28.1 per cent — but new owner Erick Thohir has been unable to move forward, saddled with the demands of FFP and huge debt.
So now the protectionist, exclusionist plan A has failed to work, the Milan clubs have advanced plan B: back to the future. The principles they demanded threatened to ruin the pair of them. But, don’t worry, they’ve got some new ones over here.
That is likely to be the stance of the English elite, too. They will need to find a fresh position on the moral high ground, because the old sermons won’t convince any more.

Financial Fair Play, we were so often told, came from a desire to prevent another implosion such as the one at Portsmouth or Leeds United. That is why Manchester City should be banned from Europe, or, as Mourinho suggested, docked points.
Yet if UEFA rules now prevent owners or third parties from loaning clubs huge sums of money — and then just as airily demanding arbitrary repayment — these financial catastrophes will no longer be possible.
So what will be the case for FFP then? The elite will be forced into the open to admit it is not Portsmouth who are being protected, but the financial and political supremacy of Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal. David Gill, former chief executive of United, was among those who helped frame FFP. Amazingly, what was best for the European game appeared to correspond precisely with what was best for his old club. It was the same for Karl-Heinz Rummenigge at Bayern Munich, too.
But not for the rest of Europe. As Arsene Wenger pointed out yesterday, the Premier League’s new television deal is the other vehicle for change, terrifying the continent with its enormity. If English clubs have so much additional revenue then they can spend accordingly and blow their rivals away. This was always a complication.
In FFP terms, one size could never fit all. How can clubs be tethered to turnover if Barcelona and Real Madrid’s television deal is constructed in an entirely different way from that of the rest of Europe?
How can clubs all work under the same financial regulation when each country has different laws on, for instance, taxation — meaning at one stage it would have cost Paris Saint-Germain roughly 30 per cent more to pay Wayne Rooney the same salary he earns at Manchester United.

AC Milan sold Zlatan Ibrahimovic to Paris Saint-Germain in 2012 and are a shadow of some of their old teams
How can there be one rule for a league that routinely receives forms of state aid, when others do not? The only way FFP could ever have been fair was if UEFA took into account the variables in different domestic competitions, and addressed issues of wealth distribution in the Champions League.
Once the size of the Premier League’s television deal became apparent, however, it was plain that parts of continental Europe were simply going to become uncompetitive. Milan, for example. Now those clubs are back in the game, and so are a lot of others — which is just as it should be.
So Platini got the right result, eventually, but perhaps for the wrong reasons. Next time, he shouldn’t try so hard to please the entitled elite. ‘It’s not easy,’ said Wenger of FFP yesterday. ‘There are very intelligent people at UEFA who have worked for a few years now on that problem.’ Really? They should have worked harder then.
Any negative that can be seen from eight years out by a bloke with an E grade maths O level sitting in his front room, really shouldn’t have been too much for Europe’s brains trust to compute. Fair play didn’t have to be rocket science; it just had to be fair.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed May 20, 2015 8:03 am

I was just about to copy & paste that. Nice one.


My question is; are we really supposed to believe that these people are all so stupid; that it was an attempt to do something for the good of football, which went wrong ? Fucking bollocks.

Samuel has mentioned how it was the brainchild of people like Berlusconi & David Gill, but are we really to believe that those at UEFA were too dumb to see what this was really about ? And that they couldn't have made the original legislation more suitable to actually bring about the objective they SAY they were trying to achieve ?

It's corruption, pure & simple; really bad, stinking, corruption. And look at the bloke they all jump in with; Berlusconi ffs!

We know who our enemies are, & that they are willing to stoop to corruption in order to get what they want, 4 of the worst ones are right here on our own doorstep.

They are a bunch of fucking crooks & we should never ever forget, that for all the animosity in the media, behind the scenes, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool, are working together.

Oh & don't forget that Inter Milan are a bunch of cunts & also our enemies. They always get away with it somehow.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Im_Spartacus » Wed May 20, 2015 8:30 am

Ted Hughes wrote:I was just about to copy & paste that. Nice one.


My question is; are we really supposed to believe that these people are all so stupid; that it was an attempt to do something for the good of football, which went wrong ? Fucking bollocks.

Samuel has mentioned how it was the brainchild of people like Berlusconi & David Gill, but are we really to believe that those at UEFA were too dumb to see what this was really about ? And that they couldn't have made the original legislation more suitable to actually bring about the objective they SAY they were trying to achieve ?

It's corruption, pure & simple; really bad, stinking, corruption. And look at the bloke they all jump in with; Berlusconi ffs!

We know who our enemies are, & that they are willing to stoop to corruption in order to get what they want, 4 of the worst ones are right here on our own doorstep.

They are a bunch of fucking crooks & we should never ever forget, that for all the animosity in the media, behind the scenes, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool, are working together.

Oh & don't forget that Inter Milan are a bunch of cunts & also our enemies. They always get away with it somehow.


I love the line "It's dismal mantra was adopted by football's slowest minds"

That, to a tee describes the thick cunts amongst other clubs' fans who cheered for this, and those in the media who got on their soap box, and shows them up for what they actually are, idiots, easily manipulated by spin. For all Mourinho and Wenger's hyperbole, they knew exactly what was going on, we can either see them as hypocrites, or simply playing the game that their owners had started.

I really hope the Sheikh fucking lets rip this summer now.....the comment by Pellegrini about FFP stopping us signing Di Maria shows that there is clearly willingness to spend extra money
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed May 20, 2015 9:02 am

Im_Spartacus wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:I was just about to copy & paste that. Nice one.


My question is; are we really supposed to believe that these people are all so stupid; that it was an attempt to do something for the good of football, which went wrong ? Fucking bollocks.

Samuel has mentioned how it was the brainchild of people like Berlusconi & David Gill, but are we really to believe that those at UEFA were too dumb to see what this was really about ? And that they couldn't have made the original legislation more suitable to actually bring about the objective they SAY they were trying to achieve ?

It's corruption, pure & simple; really bad, stinking, corruption. And look at the bloke they all jump in with; Berlusconi ffs!

We know who our enemies are, & that they are willing to stoop to corruption in order to get what they want, 4 of the worst ones are right here on our own doorstep.

They are a bunch of fucking crooks & we should never ever forget, that for all the animosity in the media, behind the scenes, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool, are working together.

Oh & don't forget that Inter Milan are a bunch of cunts & also our enemies. They always get away with it somehow.


I love the line "It's dismal mantra was adopted by football's slowest minds"

That, to a tee describes the thick cunts amongst other clubs' fans who cheered for this, and those in the media who got on their soap box, and shows them up for what they actually are, idiots, easily manipulated by spin. For all Mourinho and Wenger's hyperbole, they knew exactly what was going on, we can either see them as hypocrites, or simply playing the game that their owners had started.

I really hope the Sheikh fucking lets rip this summer now.....the comment by Pellegrini about FFP stopping us signing Di Maria shows that there is clearly willingness to spend extra money


Tbh, there are a lot of rumours that one or two of the senior figures at the club have quietly hinted at a pretty big spending summer anyway. But of course if this does come to fruition, and the Shekih decides he fancies investing, Bale would be a nice start, to solve a few positional & squad headaches & shove a big fist right up the rags' arse.
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Well I heard that the Sheikh... bought Carlos Tevez this week...& you fuckers aint gettin' nothin..
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Peter Doherty (AGAIG) » Wed May 20, 2015 9:04 am

Im_Spartacus wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:I was just about to copy & paste that. Nice one.


My question is; are we really supposed to believe that these people are all so stupid; that it was an attempt to do something for the good of football, which went wrong ? Fucking bollocks.

Samuel has mentioned how it was the brainchild of people like Berlusconi & David Gill, but are we really to believe that those at UEFA were too dumb to see what this was really about ? And that they couldn't have made the original legislation more suitable to actually bring about the objective they SAY they were trying to achieve ?

It's corruption, pure & simple; really bad, stinking, corruption. And look at the bloke they all jump in with; Berlusconi ffs!

We know who our enemies are, & that they are willing to stoop to corruption in order to get what they want, 4 of the worst ones are right here on our own doorstep.

They are a bunch of fucking crooks & we should never ever forget, that for all the animosity in the media, behind the scenes, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool, are working together.

Oh & don't forget that Inter Milan are a bunch of cunts & also our enemies. They always get away with it somehow.


I love the line "It's dismal mantra was adopted by football's slowest minds"

That, to a tee describes the thick cunts amongst other clubs' fans who cheered for this, and those in the media who got on their soap box, and shows them up for what they actually are, idiots, easily manipulated by spin. For all Mourinho and Wenger's hyperbole, they knew exactly what was going on, we can either see them as hypocrites, or simply playing the game that their owners had started.

I really hope the Sheikh fucking lets rip this summer now.....the comment by Pellegrini about FFP stopping us signing Di Maria shows that there is clearly willingness to spend extra money

Gentlemen, I believe the phrase is 'hoisted by their own petard.' I'd love us to seriously inflate the transfer market this summer, just by way of a 'thank you for last summer' (but not on sterling).
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Im_Spartacus » Wed May 20, 2015 9:29 am

Ted Hughes wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:I was just about to copy & paste that. Nice one.


My question is; are we really supposed to believe that these people are all so stupid; that it was an attempt to do something for the good of football, which went wrong ? Fucking bollocks.

Samuel has mentioned how it was the brainchild of people like Berlusconi & David Gill, but are we really to believe that those at UEFA were too dumb to see what this was really about ? And that they couldn't have made the original legislation more suitable to actually bring about the objective they SAY they were trying to achieve ?

It's corruption, pure & simple; really bad, stinking, corruption. And look at the bloke they all jump in with; Berlusconi ffs!

We know who our enemies are, & that they are willing to stoop to corruption in order to get what they want, 4 of the worst ones are right here on our own doorstep.

They are a bunch of fucking crooks & we should never ever forget, that for all the animosity in the media, behind the scenes, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool, are working together.

Oh & don't forget that Inter Milan are a bunch of cunts & also our enemies. They always get away with it somehow.


I love the line "It's dismal mantra was adopted by football's slowest minds"

That, to a tee describes the thick cunts amongst other clubs' fans who cheered for this, and those in the media who got on their soap box, and shows them up for what they actually are, idiots, easily manipulated by spin. For all Mourinho and Wenger's hyperbole, they knew exactly what was going on, we can either see them as hypocrites, or simply playing the game that their owners had started.

I really hope the Sheikh fucking lets rip this summer now.....the comment by Pellegrini about FFP stopping us signing Di Maria shows that there is clearly willingness to spend extra money


Tbh, there are a lot of rumours that one or two of the senior figures at the club have quietly hinted at a pretty big spending summer anyway. But of course if this does come to fruition, and the Shekih decides he fancies investing, Bale would be a nice start, to solve a few positional & squad headaches & shove a big fist right up the rags' arse.


Well you'd have to assume that having wanted to sign a player of the calibre of Di Maria, Sterling is unlikely to be the limit of our ambitions in terms of wide players. It would be extremely nice if we could grab bale at a significant discount to what Madrid paid also, as I'd be very surprised to see United in the market at 60m+ again for a single player this summer.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby iwasthere2012 » Wed May 20, 2015 10:40 am

john@staustell wrote:
iwasthere2012 wrote:
zuricity wrote:Nice one CARL.

Apart from Carl's contribution above, I'm still waiting for someone in the press to come out and call this for what it is. I know Brennan and one or two others have written pieces about how FFP was a sham in the past. It's time some of the press actually earned an honest living and wrote something resembling journalism.
It should really be put out there what the last few years have been about and these pathetic reasons that they are putting forward for changing now should be exposed.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... en-it.html

I told you that Michel Platini was destroying football... finally even he has now seen it
UEFA want to relax their rules on the controversial Financial Fair Play
Michel Platini has finally seen what some of us knew eight years ago
Financial Fair Play in its current form destroys competitions
Whatever the two Milan clubs want, they seem to get from UEFA

By MARTIN SAMUEL - SPORT FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 23:10, 19 May 2015 | UPDATED: 01:40, 20 May 2015

Say what you like about Michel Platini, but he’s no slouch. It only took the ruination of the Bundesliga, the reduction of the giants of Italian football to neutered also-rans, the destruction of leagues across Eastern Europe, £100million-plus in unjustly levelled fines, the milking of fans for owner profit at clubs such as Newcastle, legal actions in double figures across Europe and the creation of a sinister, untouchable European elite for him to work out what some of us knew eight years ago.
Namely, this. ‘Those who despise Chelsea invariably fail to answer one basic question: how else is a team meant to break into the cosy club that is the Champions League, and remain there, without spending beyond its means?’ That was from a column in The Times published on February 21, 2007. You’re welcome. Weekly bulletins on similar lines have been issued since.

Hell, it’s been a long road but finally someone at UEFA saw sense. Financial Fair Play in its present form destroys competition. It creates, in Germany and elsewhere, worthless one-team leagues, it strangles investment and discourages new money from coming into the game. It makes heroes of profiteers like Mike Ashley and Karl Oyston and villains of enhancers such as Sheik Mansour and Jack Walker. It creates inevitabilities and foregone conclusions and values accountancy over ambition.
Its dismal mantra was adopted by some of football’s slowest minds, and as a result may yet destroy Queens Park Rangers. All of this was entirely predictable and, baby, I’ve got the back catalogue to prove it. Anyway, hate to say I told you so, as The Hives sang, so we’ll move on.
Here is today’s question. Why is it that whatever is good for the two Milan clubs also happens to be what is best for football, according to UEFA? Ever wondered that? Whatever the Milan clubs want, they get. When they wanted FFP, in it came; now they want more financial freedom, they get that, too.

Don’t be mistaken. The relaxation of UEFA’s wrecking ball regulation is a mighty positive for football, particularly if it ensures that, from here, owner investment must be a gift. UEFA should also consider simultaneously closing loopholes such as Roman Abramovich’s £1billion loan to Fordstam, the company through which he owns Chelsea. This would prevent another Portsmouth from occurring.
Yet there are plenty of clubs and recent developments that could be cited as highlighting the need for change in FFP rules. Bayern Munich’s stockpiling of the best domestic talent in Germany; the summer plundering of Southampton; nine consecutive title wins for BATE Borisov in Belarus; the failure to find a buyer for Everton; the fine of roughly £50m for Manchester City, despite their wonderful regeneration project in east Manchester.
Russian Roman Abramovich poured money into Chelsea and made them one of England's elite teams

Yet the name that is said to have provoked this rethink at UEFA is that of AC Milan. Silvio Berlusconi wants to sell his club, but can’t, because a new owner would need to spend heavily to move Milan from midtable torpor, and UEFA rules do not allow that. So now it’s all change.
When Platini introduced FFP, he cited the wishes of the club bosses as high onhis list of considerations. ‘It is mainly the owners who asked us to do something,’ he said before the Champions League draw in 2009. ‘Abramovich, Berlusconi and Massimo Moratti at Inter. They do not want to fork out any more.’
Not much of a philosophy, then, was it? I don’t want to spend my money, so you can’t either. I’ve got what I want, so let’s just pull up this drawbridge.

Abramovich, we know, was a turncoat. Having bought his way into the elite, he crossed the floor because he didn’t want other new owners matching his spending power and challenging Chelsea’s supremacy. These are the principles that Jose Mourinho now espouses as if they are (a) noble and (b) his own.
For Berlusconi and Moratti, however, it was different. Their clubs were part of the establishment, but maintaining that status with men like Abramovich around was becoming a huge financial drain. Tie spending power to revenue and that was the problem solved, they thought. The new owners from the east would be shackled and the status quo maintained.
What they had not anticipated was the parlous financial state of Italian football. Poor matchday revenues, underdeveloped commercial opportunities with many clubs not owning their stadiums and a TV deal which paled into insignificance beside the sums on offer in England and Spain. Suddenly committed to spending what they earned, the influence of the Milanese clubs collapsed.
In 2012, AC Milan sold their two best players, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Thiago Silva, and the current squad is a pale imitation of the glory days. Inter were largely jettisoned by Moratti in 2013 — he retained a stake of 28.1 per cent — but new owner Erick Thohir has been unable to move forward, saddled with the demands of FFP and huge debt.
So now the protectionist, exclusionist plan A has failed to work, the Milan clubs have advanced plan B: back to the future. The principles they demanded threatened to ruin the pair of them. But, don’t worry, they’ve got some new ones over here.
That is likely to be the stance of the English elite, too. They will need to find a fresh position on the moral high ground, because the old sermons won’t convince any more.

Financial Fair Play, we were so often told, came from a desire to prevent another implosion such as the one at Portsmouth or Leeds United. That is why Manchester City should be banned from Europe, or, as Mourinho suggested, docked points.
Yet if UEFA rules now prevent owners or third parties from loaning clubs huge sums of money — and then just as airily demanding arbitrary repayment — these financial catastrophes will no longer be possible.
So what will be the case for FFP then? The elite will be forced into the open to admit it is not Portsmouth who are being protected, but the financial and political supremacy of Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal. David Gill, former chief executive of United, was among those who helped frame FFP. Amazingly, what was best for the European game appeared to correspond precisely with what was best for his old club. It was the same for Karl-Heinz Rummenigge at Bayern Munich, too.
But not for the rest of Europe. As Arsene Wenger pointed out yesterday, the Premier League’s new television deal is the other vehicle for change, terrifying the continent with its enormity. If English clubs have so much additional revenue then they can spend accordingly and blow their rivals away. This was always a complication.
In FFP terms, one size could never fit all. How can clubs be tethered to turnover if Barcelona and Real Madrid’s television deal is constructed in an entirely different way from that of the rest of Europe?
How can clubs all work under the same financial regulation when each country has different laws on, for instance, taxation — meaning at one stage it would have cost Paris Saint-Germain roughly 30 per cent more to pay Wayne Rooney the same salary he earns at Manchester United.

AC Milan sold Zlatan Ibrahimovic to Paris Saint-Germain in 2012 and are a shadow of some of their old teams
How can there be one rule for a league that routinely receives forms of state aid, when others do not? The only way FFP could ever have been fair was if UEFA took into account the variables in different domestic competitions, and addressed issues of wealth distribution in the Champions League.
Once the size of the Premier League’s television deal became apparent, however, it was plain that parts of continental Europe were simply going to become uncompetitive. Milan, for example. Now those clubs are back in the game, and so are a lot of others — which is just as it should be.
So Platini got the right result, eventually, but perhaps for the wrong reasons. Next time, he shouldn’t try so hard to please the entitled elite. ‘It’s not easy,’ said Wenger of FFP yesterday. ‘There are very intelligent people at UEFA who have worked for a few years now on that problem.’ Really? They should have worked harder then.
Any negative that can be seen from eight years out by a bloke with an E grade maths O level sitting in his front room, really shouldn’t have been too much for Europe’s brains trust to compute. Fair play didn’t have to be rocket science; it just had to be fair.


Hallelujah and Amen.
Now let's see if any of the other vermin crawl out from under their rocks and hop on the band wagon.....
I won't hold my breath. Await the face-saving spin.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Hazy2 » Wed May 20, 2015 11:12 am

Di Maria and Hazard would love it at City. A footballing team.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Mikhail Chigorin » Wed May 20, 2015 12:04 pm

Hazy2 wrote:Di Maria and Hazard would love it at City. A footballing team.


Spot on.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Dameerto » Wed May 20, 2015 1:39 pm

Now to torpedo this domestic FFP bollox... come on QPR, maybe the Sheikh can help with the legal costs, or a legal team or two?
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Im_Spartacus » Wed May 20, 2015 2:10 pm

Dameerto wrote:Now to torpedo this domestic FFP bollox... come on QPR, maybe the Sheikh can help with the legal costs, or a legal team or two?


In all honesty, I think there is merit in the principle of FFP in the league pyramid, but again it's debt that's the risk, not how much a rich owner invests.

It seems that domestic FFP will always be ineffective when typically clubs who end up in administration 2,3 or 4 years after relegation from the PL because they were already running at a loss to cling onto their premier league status, fall though to league 1, and couldn't cut their budget quickly enough, or keep trying to get back in the PL and eventually run out of money. I'd wager that relatively few clubs have ended up in administration as a result of trying to get to the premier league (which is what the football league rule is allegedly trying to protect against). Unfortunately, whilst you have the disparity in wealth between the premier league and the league, that issue of financial disaster after relegation is pretty much a certainty for clubs like Bolton who ran up big debts whilst in the PL for 7 or 8 years, and simply cannot ever hope to service that debt with championship income.

So debt is the enemy, again, it is not 'no strings' investment which should be the target.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Bianchi on Ice » Wed May 20, 2015 9:31 pm

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:I was just about to copy & paste that. Nice one.


My question is; are we really supposed to believe that these people are all so stupid; that it was an attempt to do something for the good of football, which went wrong ? Fucking bollocks.

Samuel has mentioned how it was the brainchild of people like Berlusconi & David Gill, but are we really to believe that those at UEFA were too dumb to see what this was really about ? And that they couldn't have made the original legislation more suitable to actually bring about the objective they SAY they were trying to achieve ?

It's corruption, pure & simple; really bad, stinking, corruption. And look at the bloke they all jump in with; Berlusconi ffs!

We know who our enemies are, & that they are willing to stoop to corruption in order to get what they want, 4 of the worst ones are right here on our own doorstep.

They are a bunch of fucking crooks & we should never ever forget, that for all the animosity in the media, behind the scenes, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool, are working together.

Oh & don't forget that Inter Milan are a bunch of cunts & also our enemies. They always get away with it somehow.


I love the line "It's dismal mantra was adopted by football's slowest minds"

That, to a tee describes the thick cunts amongst other clubs' fans who cheered for this, and those in the media who got on their soap box, and shows them up for what they actually are, idiots, easily manipulated by spin. For all Mourinho and Wenger's hyperbole, they knew exactly what was going on, we can either see them as hypocrites, or simply playing the game that their owners had started.

I really hope the Sheikh fucking lets rip this summer now.....the comment by Pellegrini about FFP stopping us signing Di Maria shows that there is clearly willingness to spend extra money

Gentlemen, I believe the phrase is 'hoisted by their own petard.' I'd love us to seriously inflate the transfer market this summer, just by way of a 'thank you for last summer' (but not on sterling).


Yeah. It'll be Euros ;)
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby john@staustell » Thu May 21, 2015 7:40 am

Yes, very cheap to buy in euros at the moment. Currently Aguero's 40 million euros cost us about 28 and a half million quid!
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu May 21, 2015 8:38 am

john@staustell wrote:Yes, very cheap to buy in euros at the moment. Currently Aguero's 40 million euros cost us about 28 and a half million quid!


Yeah & guess what I'm going to get paid in, for the most part, over the next few months.
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Re: FFP - time to challenge it's legality

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Thu May 21, 2015 8:41 am

Ted Hughes wrote:
john@staustell wrote:Yes, very cheap to buy in euros at the moment. Currently Aguero's 40 million euros cost us about 28 and a half million quid!


Yeah & guess what I'm going to get paid in, for the most part, over the next few months.


Peanuts?
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