Vieira - cometh the hour?

[Plain Speaking]

Or appointing a 'proven' manager could result in us doing the same if players don't especially think said manager has what it takes to be better than Van Gaal, Mourinho or Wenger.

If I was a player, nothing Ancelotti, Klopp or Pellegrini have to offer would make me particularly sign for them over any of the other managers. I would be signing for the club.

Guardiola is the only real draw amongst the coaches we have been linked with in comparison imo. It would be 'the project' which is the draw.

In fact Vieira might be a bigger selling point than them come to think of it.

I agree Gaurdiola would be the biggest attraction for prospective players, almost on the same level as Mourinho, (both more attractive than Wenger and Van Gaal).

Ancelotti is probably similar to Van Gaal and Wenger with Klopp and Pelligrini slightly below?

I disagree that Vieira would be draw for players. I suspect appointing Vieira, at this stage in our development, would make many people question whether our "project" is actually in safe hands? It seems such a high risk gamble.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

You know what? If the club sold 5 first teamers, made one big signing, made Paddy V the man and told the fans he has two years to get the team in the top 4,and in that time he needs to bring some kids through as we regenerate the club to be what we aspire to be we'd accept that.

Remember, we have about 4 players coming back from loan so this isn't fanciful.

I dunno, just putting it out there.

You'd give him 4 years to go nowhere?

Do you miss getting beat every derby and winning fuck all? I don't.

[DoomMerchant]

Face fucking Palm.

What has he done to think he's ready? This never seems to make the discussion. How many seasons would we allow him to learn without expecting trophies?

More importantly though people I can only think of one person to ever come from youth coaching to seriously win shit and we're all turning our fucking noses up at him? Why have so many normally sensible fans lost the fucking plot? Paddy v next season would be a fucking disaster, am I the only one who sees this?

Oh that's right... I forget that you're a more qualified manager than him. Shit....step up homie. I picture you as a chunky tracksuit type.

Churros

Don't own a tracksuit.

I may have taken the piss a bit last time this was raised, but answer the following.

Has pellers won us the league?

After a less stellar year are many wants my him gone?

Does that mean most want us to win trophies every year?

Are there more qualified people to give us that?

Simple really

We aren't in disagreement about that point.

What we're in disagreement about is Vieira. I think he can be a huge draw for players and will have as good a chance as any to be a top top manager. Not yet but I hope for City.

For me only Anchovies is a more sure bet than the Count. Not even Pep tbh because he's not got the quality here he had at barca or Bayern so its more of a gamble. Either of those teams would have been as good as us with 25% more talent.

Cheers

[Hazy2]

City are as well run a club as you will ever see, paddy for me joining Pellers feels right, our club should be able to see this type of thing as natural. Paddy is the future. Underneath him should be his successor and so on .

[kinkylola]

I dont think it would be a disaster, actually i think it would help us form a team identity & style, which is something that we sorely lack now, in my opinion. I wouldn't expect him to win a league right away and you're right that we don't know how many seasons he'd get to get it right.

All of that is speculation though, we don't know what's in the owners' heads, or in Paddy's for that matter.

I think he would not be a terrible choice. I'd be a little nervous, but as a person and a leader, I think he's exactly what we need. It would be a big risk for the club, but could also pay off big. Depending on what's out there, and what kind of noises we've heard from Klopp's camp ... I'd definitely consider it an option.

On what basis would it help us form an identity and a style? Is this your gut instinct based off his playing style or do you have evidence he has radically transformed our youngsters into a well oiled machine in a completely new brand of football?

I'm not saying that he'll be some revolutionary ... but he'll be the headpiece of a system that has been developed to function from youth to first team. We have not yet been able to implement that, and Paddy being appointed would be the fruition of our management's plan ... "holistic" you may heard it referred to. I'm not even sure what that style would be, I'm not fortunate enough to get to watch the youth team day in day out.

BUT IT WOULD BE A STYLE ... a direction for the club to move forward in. As long as we keep getting new coaches every 2-3 years, we won't develop that. It takes time with the same person leading the charge. Is it really in doubt that Paddy will at some point make the jump to manager? I don't think it's a matter of if, but when ... and my point was that I don't think it would be a total disaster if it was sooner rather than later.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

You know what? If the club sold 5 first teamers, made one big signing, made Paddy V the man and told the fans he has two years to get the team in the top 4,and in that time he needs to bring some kids through as we regenerate the club to be what we aspire to be we'd accept that.

Remember, we have about 4 players coming back from loan so this isn't fanciful.

I dunno, just putting it out there.

Village idiot alert...village idiot alert......village idiot alert.....scatter scatter scatter.

Of course twats like yourself would not accept such a proposal. But you're a minority. A really fucking small tiny minority. Thankfully.

You know what? If we did that I would be fucking angry. And I would not be in a minority either.
Probably the shittest idea you have ever had.

We are a club with big financial clout, we will be using it, spending big money on top class players. Chelsea will also do this, despite them having some fine prospects in the youth side. We aren't fucking Southampton.

[Im_Spartacus]

If it's generally accepted that he will be the manager one day, then I don't understand those who say he's 'not ready'

He isn't going to become any more ready by managing a kids team, whether he does it for 1 more year or 5 more.

The only realistic arguments against appointing him would be:
1: If the opportunity to appoint Guardiola came up, it would be hard to turn down
2: There is a risk of destabilising the academy at a critical time.
3: He might be more suited to youth development than 1st team management

Personally I expect number 2 would be the biggest risk to appointing Vieira, and one has to remember than in 99% of cases where someone steps up to take charge of the 1st team, when they have run their course in charge of the senior squad and are fired, their experience in the youth setup is also lost to the club as they are normally bombed out of the club.

[Ted Hughes]

There is a No 4: Vieira doesn't think he's ready.

That is the likely outcome of this debate imo.

I imagine he will be either an assistant to Pellegrini Guardiola Ancelotti whoever or possibly leave to manage elsewhere, then come back if & when required. He has done everything methodically so far & is assessing himself as he goes along. If he isn't convinced he's ready, he won't want the job. Then if he finds he's not upto it, he won't want the job.
If City ask him to do it, he will do it because he believes he owes us, but that's different to wanting it. I doubt very much he wants to be City manager right now He wants to learn.

For all we know he may fail in management & end up ten years from now doing Txiki's job.

But I would imagine that he will be involved in City's first team in some capacity when the best academy players reach 21, 22.

[blues2win]

He's clearly in the frame this time if only because Txiki really rates him. However, if a change is made this summer, which looks likely, Ancelotti must be favourite given his pedigree. It's ridiculous for Real to sack him regardless of whether Barca win the League but Real have form. As I recall they even sacked a manager who won the CL. If Barca beat you to the title you're not easily forgiven at the Bernabeu as Pellegrini knows.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

If it's generally accepted that he will be the manager one day, then I don't understand those who say he's 'not ready'

He isn't going to become any more ready by managing a kids team, whether he does it for 1 more year or 5 more.

That works on the very unlikely assumption that he would simply manage kids for 5 more seasons and learn nothing else. Do I need to point out the numerous flaws in that line of thinking?

[Hazy2]

If it's generally accepted that he will be the manager one day, then I don't understand those who say he's 'not ready'

He isn't going to become any more ready by managing a kids team, whether he does it for 1 more year or 5 more.

That works on the very unlikely assumption that he would simply manage kids for 5 more seasons and learn nothing else. Do I need to point out the numerous flaws in that line of thinking?

The support from the club the understanding of what we are where we are going is massive, take Butthead, break it fix it and gone in 3 years. Paddy is blue, the club have identified him gave him some of the tools, make him number 2 nudge Kiddo and we accelerate his development. He gets to have an I put on the players we need for the next phase. No brainer,fuck Klopp and heavy rock football, that is too risky and you might lose Paddy to a Wenger move upstairs. Sends a message to the likes of Pogba, Benzema.

[DoomMerchant]

If it's generally accepted that he will be the manager one day, then I don't understand those who say he's 'not ready'

He isn't going to become any more ready by managing a kids team, whether he does it for 1 more year or 5 more.

That works on the very unlikely assumption that he would simply manage kids for 5 more seasons and learn nothing else. Do I need to point out the numerous flaws in that line of thinking?

Managers get their first job.

You apparently want him to go somewhere else and do that first. Others believe he might be worth a punt given he was one of the top 10 footballers of the last 30 years.

I think, like Zidane, he's taking his time to make sure he doesn't pull a fucking Shearer and walk into something with his cock out and be totally exposed for being absolutely out of his depth. However, most of us believe he's a million times smarter than that to begin with and the risk is lessened. It's still there tho....but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have Vieira appointed and have bought Pogba this summer and a couple other players. I'd be 100% fine with that.

cheers

[Pretty Boy Lee]

If it's generally accepted that he will be the manager one day, then I don't understand those who say he's 'not ready'

He isn't going to become any more ready by managing a kids team, whether he does it for 1 more year or 5 more.

That works on the very unlikely assumption that he would simply manage kids for 5 more seasons and learn nothing else. Do I need to point out the numerous flaws in that line of thinking?

Managers get their first job.

You apparently want him to go somewhere else and do that first. Others believe he might be worth a punt given he was one of the top 10 footballers of the last 30 years.

I think, like Zidane, he's taking his time to make sure he doesn't pull a fucking Shearer and walk into something with his cock out and be totally exposed for being absolutely out of his depth. However, most of us believe he's a million times smarter than that to begin with and the risk is lessened. It's still there tho....but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have Vieira appointed and have bought Pogba this summer and a couple other players. I'd be 100% fine with that.

cheers

I don't think he has to go elsewhere, we have the structure to bring someone along organically and truly lessen the risk. At this stage we simply have a bunch of people begging for someone they have no idea will pan out, at a club not renowned for its patience with managers.

Why can't he join pellers staff if we keep him on? Then if we were serious about 3 year cycles bring in a top coach for him to leave under as number 2 for the next cycle then if he's ready give him the job.

No good identifying someone who was thrown in too soon yet think it won't happen here. It can and will if we don't give him right tools.

[Im_Spartacus]

If it's generally accepted that he will be the manager one day, then I don't understand those who say he's 'not ready'

He isn't going to become any more ready by managing a kids team, whether he does it for 1 more year or 5 more.

That works on the very unlikely assumption that he would simply manage kids for 5 more seasons and learn nothing else. Do I need to point out the numerous flaws in that line of thinking?

Managers get their first job.

You apparently want him to go somewhere else and do that first. Others believe he might be worth a punt given he was one of the top 10 footballers of the last 30 years.

I think, like Zidane, he's taking his time to make sure he doesn't pull a fucking Shearer and walk into something with his cock out and be totally exposed for being absolutely out of his depth. However, most of us believe he's a million times smarter than that to begin with and the risk is lessened. It's still there tho....but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have Vieira appointed and have bought Pogba this summer and a couple other players. I'd be 100% fine with that.

cheers

I don't think he has to go elsewhere, we have the structure to bring someone along organically and truly lessen the risk. At this stage we simply have a bunch of people begging for someone they have no idea will pan out, at a club not renowned for its patience with managers.

Why can't he join pellers staff if we keep him on? Then if we were serious about 3 year cycles bring in a top coach for him to leave under as number 2 for the next cycle then if he's ready give him the job.

No good identifying someone who was thrown in too soon yet think it won't happen here. It can and will if we don't give him right tools.

Do you have any evidence to cite that proves that a person who has a long stint behind the scenes at a club subsequently does better than other managers when promoted?

Guardiola did a year at Barcelona and he did ok, yet you expect Vieira to hang around as heir apparent for 6 or 7 years to learn the job - utter horseshit.

The reality is that as a top coach, you either have leadership qualities and tactical nous or you don't, and if being captain of France and Arsenal for god knows how long doesn't equip you with leadership skills, no amount of learning will.

All this about him 'learning' off this manager or that manager is bollocks, he must be happy where he is right now as if he was really ambitious for first team management he wouldn't sit around for another 3/4/5 years unless he was being extremely well paid or unless he wasn't all that interested in he job at this stage of his career

[Pretty Boy Lee]

If it's generally accepted that he will be the manager one day, then I don't understand those who say he's 'not ready'

He isn't going to become any more ready by managing a kids team, whether he does it for 1 more year or 5 more.

That works on the very unlikely assumption that he would simply manage kids for 5 more seasons and learn nothing else. Do I need to point out the numerous flaws in that line of thinking?

Managers get their first job.

You apparently want him to go somewhere else and do that first. Others believe he might be worth a punt given he was one of the top 10 footballers of the last 30 years.

I think, like Zidane, he's taking his time to make sure he doesn't pull a fucking Shearer and walk into something with his cock out and be totally exposed for being absolutely out of his depth. However, most of us believe he's a million times smarter than that to begin with and the risk is lessened. It's still there tho....but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have Vieira appointed and have bought Pogba this summer and a couple other players. I'd be 100% fine with that.

cheers

I don't think he has to go elsewhere, we have the structure to bring someone along organically and truly lessen the risk. At this stage we simply have a bunch of people begging for someone they have no idea will pan out, at a club not renowned for its patience with managers.

Why can't he join pellers staff if we keep him on? Then if we were serious about 3 year cycles bring in a top coach for him to leave under as number 2 for the next cycle then if he's ready give him the job.

No good identifying someone who was thrown in too soon yet think it won't happen here. It can and will if we don't give him right tools.

Do you have any evidence to cite that proves that a person who has a long stint behind the scenes at a club subsequently does better than other managers when promoted?

Guardiola did a year at Barcelona and he did ok, yet you expect Vieira to hang around as heir apparent for 6 or 7 years to learn the job - utter horseshit.

The reality is that as a top coach, you either have leadership qualities and tactical nous or you don't, and if being captain of France and Arsenal for god knows how long doesn't equip you with leadership skills, no amount of learning will.

All this about him 'learning' off this manager or that manager is bollocks, he must be happy where he is right now as if he was really ambitious for first team management he wouldn't sit around for another 3/4/5 years unless he was being extremely well paid or unless he wasn't all that interested in he job at this stage of his career

Again though the only example anyone has of this working is pro at one of if not the best club side of all time.

I don't know off hand where every coach started but I'd venture a guess you'd find more successful ones did a proper apprenticeship than didn't. It's like any job really, you don't go from start to top in one stop unless they see something truly remarkable. They may see that in paddy but none of us would know that at all. What's wrong with him getting promotions as we go along? What's his official title now? Surely there's at least one promotion (assistant manager) if not 2 or 3 he can have on his way

[DoomMerchant]

Again though the only example anyone has of this working is pro at one of if not the best club side of all time.

I don't know off hand where every coach started but I'd venture a guess you'd find more successful ones did a proper apprenticeship than didn't. It's like any job really, you don't go from start to top in one stop unless they see something truly remarkable. They may see that in paddy but none of us would know that at all. What's wrong with him getting promotions as we go along? What's his official title now? Surely there's at least one promotion (assistant manager) if not 2 or 3 he can have on his way

you are medieval.

cheers

[Pretty Boy Lee]

Again though the only example anyone has of this working is pro at one of if not the best club side of all time.

I don't know off hand where every coach started but I'd venture a guess you'd find more successful ones did a proper apprenticeship than didn't. It's like any job really, you don't go from start to top in one stop unless they see something truly remarkable. They may see that in paddy but none of us would know that at all. What's wrong with him getting promotions as we go along? What's his official title now? Surely there's at least one promotion (assistant manager) if not 2 or 3 he can have on his way

you are medieval.

cheers

No probs homeslice

[DoomMerchant]

Again though the only example anyone has of this working is pro at one of if not the best club side of all time.

I don't know off hand where every coach started but I'd venture a guess you'd find more successful ones did a proper apprenticeship than didn't. It's like any job really, you don't go from start to top in one stop unless they see something truly remarkable. They may see that in paddy but none of us would know that at all. What's wrong with him getting promotions as we go along? What's his official title now? Surely there's at least one promotion (assistant manager) if not 2 or 3 he can have on his way

you are medieval.

cheers

No probs homeslice

Seriously...I have no problem with you either dawg.

I just think your viewpoint is old fashioned a s straight out of 1973.

Vieira if he wants to manage will do so when he thinks he's ready and if he's getting close in his own mind then I think we need to consider him regardless of how the Count ends this season tbh. Even if we're second. Ultimately best case scenario for me is that Paddy gets added to his staff after we've won out our remaining matches and run a closer second in the table than the actual whimper of a challenge we've mismanaged. We give him a year to steep. Worst case the Count's side continues to mail it in and fuck it off we end up fourth and a new bastard takes charge. Anchovies or Paddy for me. No one else.

Cheers

[Dameerto]

I was going to go into why I thought Ancelotti was the lesser of the guys thought to be available (or linked with us) because of his tendency to stick with a set eleven and only change it when injuries happened - but then I thought maybe that's just what we could have done with this season (especially at the back).

[Ted Hughes]

If Real Madrid had been playing v Villa at weekend instead of Celta Vigo, they would have lost.