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Re: Football Media

Postby Original Dub » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:24 pm

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“I am bound upon a wheel of fire, that mine own tears do scald like molten lead”.

I tried not to write a José Mourinho column ever again. Even starting this one it feels only right to acknowledge there is no obvious excuse for talking quite so much about a football manager who is, for all his widescreen presence, a surprisingly prosaic character these days.

This has become a self-sustaining personality obsession. Currently the most startling thing about Mourinho is the fact everybody still finds him so startling. The most interesting thing is the sheer level of interest. Mourinho’s extraordinary, enduring celebrity seems above all to be based around his extraordinary, enduring celebrity.

José Mourinho calls claims he is unhappy at Old Trafford ‘garbage news’

 

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For how much longer? Hold your ear to the page, edge closer to the television during one of those slightly frightening José close-ups – the greatest romantic lead of the Premier League years clanking about on the touchline like a dying robot – and you can almost hear the creaking of the plates, that ever-widening gulf between the amount of time spent talking about Mourinho and the level of actual interest in a manager with one league title in six seasons who is doing a decent job with a so-so Manchester United team.

Personality obsession in football often seems impossibly vivid, but these things can also die quite quickly. A few months ago I estimated that I had, over the last 15 years, written an average of 500 words every week about Wayne Rooney, which adds up to almost 400,000 words, or the equivalent of six whole Rooney-based novels.

From the adolescent Rooney, a human being made entirely from Fanta and Ritz crackers and plastic explosive, all cold, vengeful power and craft; through to late, dutiful Rooney, wrestling doggedly with his own limitations, it was a process of incremental exhaustion.

By the end the flame had simply gone. A few weeks ago I was asked to write something about Rooney for a German magazine and found myself slipping into a kind of sleep-state, hands pawing uselessly at the keyboard, a few isolated phrases – “milk-white”, “Moon face”, the words “WaYn RoONeyyy” – repeating themselves across six pages of fluent, senseless Rooney screed.

Right now t he same process of entropy is beginning to apply itself to Mourinho, and not only among those who tired of his vaulting egotism years ago. Let’s face it, we know what’s going on there.

Mourinho has done a fair job at United. But he has clearly failed in his obvious, all-engulfing desire to outperform Pep Guardiola, who has engineered a genuinely memorable team at Manchester City. In his shadow Mourinho has become ordinary, failing to overachieve, but also failing to fall short in a way that is gripping or exciting or even very notable, a jarringly non-fascinating object of eternal fascination.

Except, perhaps not quite yet. There is one last thing. Reading Mourinho’s odd statements this week about other managers buying success, the sightly desperate attempts to tailor the Manchester United football-industrial complex as a spunky underdog, it might be easy to gloss this as standard deflection tactics.

But not quite. Something else is going on here. Quietly, insidiously, something awful is happening to Mourinho, perhaps the worst thing that could possibly happen. In Dante’s Inferno hell is portrayed as a place where sinners enter a special cell designed to aggravate and mock their own worst excesses. Those guilty of wrath are made to fight each other in the filthy waters of the river Styx. Thieves have their souls stolen. Flatterers are pelted – quite literally – with bull shit.

Welcome then, José, to your own Danteian circle. In a moment of bespoke personal hell it turns out Mourinho’s only function in the Premier League this season is to validate and endorse and magnify the success of his greatest rival. The talk about money and about buying success: this is Mourinho’s last jibe, the final get-out, the only bit of wriggle room left as he tries to process the spectacle of Guardiola creating his wonderful title-bound team.

And yet by a beautifully awkward piece of personal theatre it is Mourinho’s lot to provide the counter-argument, absolving Guardiola from such criticism by acting as the control: spending more or less the same on players in the last two seasons but playing worse football and winning fewer games.

Mourinho has two more trophies but City have the points and the goals and the laurels, a team woven together out of young attacking talent and notable improvements for the likes of Nicolás Otamendi, who still rumbles around the pitch like a large piece of garden furniture bent on performing a series of violent assaults, but who is now all set to take his place in one of the really memorable title-winning teams of the last 25 years.

Obviously the issues in such a feat are more complex than simply money. To judge a manager in these terms is facile. But football is facile. Football managers are facile when it suits them. And so Mourinho gets to disprove his own last remaining gripe about bought success, an unusually cruel state of affairs, and one that seems certain to be played out in close up, excruciating, oddly gripping super slow-mo over the next five months.

The obvious point is that Mourinho does have a way out of this. He is simply at the wrong kind of club, struggling with an ill-fitting loss of scale. The truth of his two-stage elite level career. Mourinho has been afflicted with a version of the Peter Principle ever since he left Inter for Real Madrid. The thing he is unarguably brilliant at, the source of his two great triumphs in the Champions League, is urging a middleweight top-tier power to heavyweight glory, bending an ambitious bunch of players to his will, with no pressure to do anything other than organise and win and gloat, handsomely, his own star player throughout.

Paul Pogba fills attacking gap as Everton and United show they miss Lukaku

 

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Mourinho may yet extend his contract at Old Trafford. He may still create a genuinely memorable team out of the current sifting and sorting. For now he’s left to fret and bellyache, glowering in grey quilted coat and tracksuit bottoms, and looking at times like a man with a wall-eyed hangover who’s just popped out to the garage for an Irn Bru, forgotten where he lives, lost his keys, fallen asleep on a bus, woken up with his face in a bag of chips, got lost again, followed someone he thought was someone else and ended up prowling around on some alien touchline trying to work out how to reorganise a depleted three-man backline halfway through a second-half defensive rearguard.

For now, and despite appearances, Mourinho remains far from ordinary, still lashed to that personalised wheel of pain, with a star supporting role in someone else’s half-season triumph that every snort, every bleat, every moan about money only serves to intensify.
Original Dub
 

Re: Football Media

Postby john68 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Although I enjoyed that surgical dismembering of Maureen, but only because it amused me to absorb such a poetic kicking in his knackers, the truth isthat for me, Maureen is no longer worth such a prosaic effort.
Maureen is not only yesterday's man, not even last year's man, maybe, and even in his own mind, the several season's ago man.

Today he reigns supreme as an Xmas balloon, found behind a couch, semi deflated in February.

An old corroded and broken down mid range car waiting by the roadside for a breakdown truck to arrive and convey him to some backstreet scrapyard, it's owner frantically phoning round to raise a couple of bob for an ineffective repair that everybody knows will be inneffective.

What Maureen reminds us of now could be a whole new amusing thread :-)
I KNOW THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU THINK I WROTE, BUT I AM NOT SURE YOU REALISE THAT WHAT YOU READ IS NOT WHAT I MEANT
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Re: Football Media

Postby Hutch's Shoulder » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:52 pm

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Re: Football Media

Postby johnny crossan » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:07 pm

Hutch's Shoulder wrote:

Bastards we are.

"The Premier League is walking in the shadow of the uncanny valley."
Only in the pages of the Guardian can you regularly read this sort of spiteful pseudo-intellectual bilge about us.
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Wilson is just a twisted Sunderland fan and 'betting expert' who's miffed that Pep has put his pyramid the right way up :D
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Re: Football Media

Postby Mikhail Chigorin » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:05 pm

johnny crossan wrote:
Hutch's Shoulder wrote:

Bastards we are.

"The Premier League is walking in the shadow of the uncanny valley."
Only in the pages of the Guardian can you regularly read this sort of spiteful pseudo-intellectual bilge about us.
Image
Wilson is just a twisted Sunderland fan and 'betting expert' who's miffed that Pep has put his pyramid the right way up :D


If he had a brain and was able to elucidate a semi cogent thought/idea, we could all have a laugh and regard him as just an imbecile.
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Re: Football Media

Postby everyonehatesus » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:12 pm

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:
johnny crossan wrote:
Hutch's Shoulder wrote:

Bastards we are.

"The Premier League is walking in the shadow of the uncanny valley."
Only in the pages of the Guardian can you regularly read this sort of spiteful pseudo-intellectual bilge about us.
Image
Wilson is just a twisted Sunderland fan and 'betting expert' who's miffed that Pep has put his pyramid the right way up :D


If he had a brain and was able to elucidate a semi cogent thought/idea, we could all have a laugh and regard him as just an imbecile.

If you selectively chose four letters off the menu it actually spells cunt. I think it's a sign
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Re: Football Media

Postby johnny crossan » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:33 pm

BBC pundits - Who will win the PL?
2016

Danny Mills Man Utd
John Murray Man Utd
Rachel Brown-Finnis Man Utd
Eniola Aluko Man Utd
Manish Bhasin Man Utd
Steve Bower Man Utd
Ian Dennis Man Utd
Alistair Mann Man Utd
Jason Roberts Man Utd
Jason Mohammad Man Utd

2017

Alan Shearer Man Utd
Mark Schwarzer Man Utd
Phil Neville Man Utd
Garth Crooks Man Utd
Danny Murphy Man Utd
Caroline Barker Man Utd
Ruud Gullit Man Utd
Danny Webber Man Utd
Rachel Brown-Finnis Man Utd
Jason Mohammad Man Utd
Jonathan Pearce Man Utd
Lindsay Johnson Man Utd
Dion Dublin Man Utd


cards duly marked
Last edited by johnny crossan on Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Football Media

Postby Justified logic » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:42 pm

johnny crossan wrote:BBC pundits - Who will win the PL?
Danny Mills Man Utd
John Murray Man Utd
Rachel Brown Man Utd
Eniola Aluko Man Utd
Manish Bhasin Man Utd
Steve Bower Man Utd
Ian Dennis Man Utd
Alistair Mann Man Utd
Jason Roberts Man Utd
Jason Mohammad Man Utd

cards duly marked

Where's that from and when? Who did the others go for?
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Re: Football Media

Postby City64 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:43 pm

johnny crossan wrote:BBC pundits - Who will win the PL?
Danny Mills Man Utd
John Murray Man Utd
Rachel Brown Man Utd
Eniola Aluko Man Utd
Manish Bhasin Man Utd
Steve Bower Man Utd
Ian Dennis Man Utd
Alistair Mann Man Utd
Jason Roberts Man Utd
Jason Mohammad Man Utd

cards duly marked

Trevor Sinclair Man City .................... banged up ! :shock:
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Re: Football Media

Postby johnny crossan » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:45 pm

Justified logic wrote:Where's that from and when? Who did the others go for?

sorry posted it accidentally while still compiling - now complete -
the others are here
2017
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40856491
2016
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37040156
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Re: Football Media

Postby Kippax Sean » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:24 pm

johnny crossan wrote:BBC pundits - Who will win the PL?
2016

Danny Mills Man Utd
John Murray Man Utd
Rachel Brown-Finnis Man Utd
Eniola Aluko Man Utd
Manish Bhasin Man Utd
Steve Bower Man Utd
Ian Dennis Man Utd
Alistair Mann Man Utd
Jason Roberts Man Utd
Jason Mohammad Man Utd

2017

Alan Shearer Man Utd
Mark Schwarzer Man Utd
Phil Neville Man Utd
Garth Crooks Man Utd
Danny Murphy Man Utd
Caroline Barker Man Utd
Ruud Gullit Man Utd
Danny Webber Man Utd
Rachel Brown-Finnis Man Utd
Jason Mohammad Man Utd
Jonathan Pearce Man Utd
Lindsay Johnson Man Utd
Dion Dublin Man Utd


cards duly marked

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Re: Football Media

Postby patrickblue » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:37 pm

Couldn't resist sharing this.

Bloody hilarious, made even funnier by the fact it's not meant to be.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/5-reasons-why-manchester-city-are-ruining-football
[img]https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7qDYcso3azifQVyg/html5[/img]
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Re: Football Media

Postby Justified logic » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:44 pm

patrickblue wrote:Couldn't resist sharing this.

Bloody hilarious, made even funnier by the fact it's not meant to be.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/5-reasons-why-manchester-city-are-ruining-football

That's a good laugh!
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Re: Football Media

Postby iwasthere2012 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:53 pm

Didn’t get past reason 1.
Gave up halfway through.

Can’t be doing with that shite.
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Re: Football Media

Postby Hutch's Shoulder » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:34 pm

iwasthere2012 wrote:Didn’t get past reason 1.
Gave up halfway through.

Can’t be doing with that shite.


The responses at the bottom were good though!
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Re: Football Media

Postby City64 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:46 pm

https://twitter.com/mattletiss7
Pure comedy gold here ^^^^^ Matt Le Tissier absolutely ripping dipper fans tonight over Coutinho and there history , fucking brilliant stuff :lol: :lol: 8-)
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Re: Football Media

Postby carolina-blue » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:44 pm

City64 wrote:https://twitter.com/mattletiss7
Pure comedy gold here ^^^^^ Matt Le Tissier absolutely ripping dipper fans tonight over Coutinho and there history , fucking brilliant stuff :lol: :lol: 8-)


One Idoit “ our players go to the best in the world yours go to Prem Fodder “

Le Tiss “ you didn’t think that through did you “

Fucking brilliant thick Scouse twat
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Re: Football Media

Postby City64 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:58 pm

carolina-blue wrote:
City64 wrote:https://twitter.com/mattletiss7
Pure comedy gold here ^^^^^ Matt Le Tissier absolutely ripping dipper fans tonight over Coutinho and there history , fucking brilliant stuff :lol: :lol: 8-)


One Idoit “ our players go to the best in the world yours go to Prem Fodder “

Le Tiss “ you didn’t think that through did you “

Fucking brilliant thick Scouse twat

Its fucking priceless mate , ive been in stitches all evening :lol: :lol: some guy even doing a "all our history and trophies" comment count :lol: :lol: pure comedy gold :D
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Re: Football Media

Postby Original Dub » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:38 am

CONSTRUCTING THIS MANCHESTER CITY MARKS GUARDIOLA'S GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT

Peter Staunton

 

 

Chief Correspondent

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He's got no Messi and this is not a one-horse town like the Bundesliga, so Pep Guardiola has proven to his doubters that he is the best in the world

You might look at John Stones’s mistake preceding the concession of Burnley’s goal in the FA Cup third round on Saturday and use it as ammunition against Pep Guardiola and a stick with which to beat the player himself.

Laughable, can’t defend, Pep doesn’t know how to coach a back four; all that kind of stuff came flying out. But Pep Guardiola looks at that mistake – or more accurately – what followed that mistake and sees evidence that his Manchester City are in the process of emulating his all-conquering Barcelona and Bayern Munich teams.

“John Stones made a mistake for the first goal but that is not a problem,” said Pep.

RELATEDGUARDIOLA LAUDS 'ESSENTIAL' AGUERO AFTER QUICK-FIRE DOUBLE RESCUES MAN CITYAGUERO'S GOALS DO THE TALKING AS HE PUTS GUARDIOLA DIFFERENCES ASIDE IN FA CUP WINGUARDIOLA'S RIGHT - FESTIVE DEMANDS WILL 'KILL' THE PLAYERSGUARDIOLA TO SIGN NEW MAN CITY CONTRACT — IF HE 'DESERVES' IT

“The problem is how he reacted to that mistake. Did he go down? He didn’t play anymore? He didn’t defend well? It was completely the opposite.

“And that is the most value for a team to create a step forward to the other ones.

“Another guy in that situation says: 'Don’t give me the ball I don’t want to play.' It was completely the opposite. That’s why I say 'chapeau'.

“Chapeau because that is the only way to make a step forward and create something good for that club for the next years.”

A mistake like that - and there’s no way of dressing it up, it was a dreadful error – gives the player, the coach and the club the opportunity to puff their chests out and attempt to overcome its consequences. And it is in this process of failing and learning that Guardiola believes champions are made.

It’s ridiculously premature to laud this City team but the day is coming when we will be able to reach out and touch their achievements. Predicting they’ll win the league is like predicting that all the sand will hit the other end of the hourglass.

After this defeat of Burnley they ensure that they remain in contention for all four competitions they entered this season. Give it another few months and there will be talk about which Pep team was the best – his Barca, his Bayern or his City?

“It’s tough for me to make comparisons about the past because it’s a different reality, different countries, different players,” said Pep about whether or not this team had yet acquired the same winning mentality as his previous squads.

“What we have done so far, we have had a good mentality for example against Southampton, West Ham and winning on big stages like Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford.”

The Bundesliga was such a doddle at times for Pep and Bayern Munich – remember they won it in March in his first season – that he could use league games to sketch out strategies to use in the latter stages of the Champions League. The German top flight was his petri dish.

He hinted after the cup win here that he is seeking to do that same even at this early stage when the Premier League season is barely past its midpoint.

The FA Cup might represent a very distant third in City’s list of priorities but it features the heart-stopping element of knockout competition.

“The players knew it was a knockout game,” he said. “If you win you are through if you lose you are at home. We want to continue in that prestigious competition like the FA Cup.

“If you are not strong you cannot do that and today was a good example.

“Because the Champions League is in one month and in one month this kind of situation we are going to live.”

This kind of experience for his players – plus the two legs against Bristol City in the Carabao Cup semi-finals – will stand them in good stead by the time Basel come calling in the Champions League.

It makes no sense to ditch trophy chases like Pep did last season in the League Cup. Winning begets winning but the consequences are mitigated should he try something and fail in either the FA Cup or the Carabao Cup.

That’s why you’ll see Oleksandr Zinchenko play left-back. That’s why you’ll see Ilkay Gundogan replace Kevin De Bruyne. Pep knows better than anyone that any number of variable factors can bite you in the backside come the late stages of the Champions League and he’s already thinking about that.

In it he’s had to deal with injuries and suspensions. One year he had to deal with a volcanic ash cloud. The more football, the better the preparedness.

Here it’s not like Barca or Bayern. In his preferred starting XI, he has no players with the experience of winning the Champions League as he did in Catalonia and Bavaria. His boys are learning on the job and don’t have a Lionel Messi or a Manuel Neuer to look up to. They are learning it for themselves; feeling fear, making mistakes but growing ever more confident and filling up on a sense of invincibility.

And that’s why the job Pep’s done so far at City ranks with anything he’s achieved in his previous jobs. More than any other coach in the world – perhaps bar Jose Mourinho – Pep has haters and knockers and begrudgers.

There is a line of argument that runs that he should be put in with a mediocre club like a Stoke City or an Everton to test just how good he is. That is insane. He is the best so, naturally, he works best with the best players. Nobody is asking Lewis Hamilton to prove himself in a Subaru Impreza.

Well, haters, this is the closest Pep is going to get to coaching a team who didn’t have it all and weren’t primed for supremacy when he took over. So drink it in.

He has assembled a squad of players who – man for man and without his unique touch – are scarcely any more able or talented than a Chelsea or a Manchester United. But Pep has taken his team to those two grounds this season and won handsomely. He is making his players better than they were. And that is why Guardiola is the best.

The detractors will say it was easy for him at Barcelona because he had the holy trinity of Xavi Hernandez, Andres Iniesta and Lionel Messi. That in itself is a false assertion because Barca were failing when he got there. But anyway that train of thought persists.

Bundesliga? Bayernliga they say. How could he fail to take a treble-winning team to the German title when his team was so much richer and more talented than any other in the league and could snare any of the competition’s best players when they felt like it?

To a section of observers, there has always been a qualification to his successes. What if he didn’t have Messi? What if Bayern actually had some decent competition? Well, now he’s proving it beyond doubt to those who didn’t already know.

Barca and Bayern may well have had fully functioning academies supplying player after player schooled and finished in the right way but City don’t. There were no readymade talents ready to step in.

This was not a one-team league but he’s making it look like one - despite the presence of some of the world’s most talented coaches and some of the world’s richest clubs alongside him.

His football is so progressive and dominant and suffocating and the outcome of the season such a foregone conclusion that the most recent point of criticism has been the source of City’s money. Mourinho even had a pop at his yellow ribbon. For anything happening on the pitch, no one can lay a glove on him.

Article continues below

This is a man who leaves an indelible stain wherever he goes. In 2010 Spain won the World Cup with six of Pep’s title-winning Barcelona players in their starting lineup for the final. One of his players got the winner. In 2014 Germany won the World Cup with six of Pep’s title-winning Bayern Munich players in their starting lineup for the final. One of his players got the winner.

He is transforming the landscape wherever he lands.

Come to England, we’ll see how good you are. They dared him and now they know. 
Original Dub
 

Re: Football Media

Postby nottsblue » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:18 am

Great article ^^^^^^^

Predicting they will win the league is like predicting all the sand will hit the bottom of an hourglass. Brilliant comment
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