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A frequent drone from much of the media, Bid Fat Sam and others is the complaint that British managers aren't being given a chance to prove themselves at the "top clubs". I can't think of a single one from these islands that I'd trust with our club. Is there someone I've missed, Forget Pep for a minute. Is there one anybody on here can think of who would do better than our Charming Man, or Poccetino, or Wenger, or Klopp .....

If not, why not?

I think they have a point. A British manager would have won stuff, given the financial advantage The Sky Four (three before Chelsea) have enjoyed, and some time.
Wenger went many years at Arse without winning a carrot, time I suspect a British manager wouldn't get.
How are they meant to show there capabilities, if they never get a chance?

If Sir Bobby was alive yes indeed.

If Hoddle wasn't such a douche I thought he could have done something.

I always rated Curbishley too but he's disappeared into the ether.

If Pardew can do something with Palace he may get a chance.

Higgs or Neville or even Stevie G may be the next ones to get a chance.

Sometimes the opposite is true and that hurts too.

What have the likes of giggs and ince and keane done to justify walking into top flight jobs? Maybe if they actually learnt their craft and came up naturally one would succeed and the stink wouldn't be there for others.

I suspect that with the very odd exception (though I can’t think of one off the top of my head), the English talent who are currently of the appropriate age to be managers came through the coaching system in an era when it was still the Charlie Hughes approach of coaching being about physical attributes rather than focusing on skill and technical ability.

Schteve Maclaren was always regarded as a top coach, but is clearly a failure of a manager everywhere he has been - yet people keep hiring coaches as managers, when being a manager or coach in my view are two entirely different competencies!

Even for those who want to tread a different path, the demand for results at every level of football means that they will typically default to the path of least resistance, which means relying on physicality (eg Moyes) and football as a game of attrition, and that will stick with them then through their career. Alternatively, they get sacked! When you look in detail, you will see that Mourinho is arguably just a David Moyes with a bit more tactical nous - his football is still largely based on physicality, yet he is lauded as one of the best.

One has to remember that the talent pool for managers is very limited and inward looking, and the paths that the likes of Houllier from outside football, and Wenger trod, is the exception rather than the rule, and one of the critical issues remains that big reputation players at the end of their careers often get a chance at managing a multi-million or even billion pound business with absolutely no experience – something that no other business with an ounce of commercial common sense would do. Basically football is completely dysfunctional in that regard.

Thing is they DO get given chances....

Hughes - us
Hodgson - dippers
Rodgers - dippers
Moyes - rags

The PL is the biggest league in the term in terms of revenue, and thus the salaries for players and managers are higher here than Europe. It's also one of the most competitive. For these reasons most of the best players will ply their trade here. Pep, who is the best manager in terms of trophies won, has already stated his next job will be the PL.

All these factors mean club owners are going to want to employ the best. Why would they limit their search to the shores of the UK? A choice of BFS or Simeone say. Or Rodgers v Klopp. Or 'Arry v Wenger. The list goes on. That's not to say there aren't decent British managers out there. I think BFS has his place as it goes, just not at the top table. I like McCarthy as well and I doubt very much he'd do a worse job at Villa than Garde will.

Moyes will return to the PL at someone like Newcastle or Swansea or Stoke, middle of the road clubs where he will do OK. He will keep them in the PL and have the odd cup run. Doesn't sound exciting but for the owner of these type of clubs it's everything.

We were in the shit when Hughes was appointed. And I suspect Hughes might have got there eventually.
I'm not sure Scouse 2 were a top four team when either Bodgers or Hodgson were appointed. Moyes got flogged a pup and wasn't given the money to sort out a squad that everybody, including Bacon Chops, could see was in terminal decline.

Chelsea appointed Di Matteo, can anybody say he was any better a bet than say Eddie Howe is now?

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:We were in the shit when Hughes was appointed. And I suspect Hughes might have got there eventually.
I'm not sure Scouse 2 were a top four team when either Bodgers or Hodgson were appointed. Moyes got flogged a pup and wasn't given the money to sort out a squad that everybody, including Bacon Chops, could see was in terminal decline.

Chelsea appointed Di Matteo, can anybody say he was any better a bet than say Eddie Howe is now?

Di Matteo was already at the club, as the assistant to AVB. So when AVB left it was an easy decision for Chelsea to make. I don't think that example can be used to compare in this instance.
Di Matteo also ended up winning the Champions League with Chelsea so I'd say with hindsight he was a better bet.

The Neville brothers will get Valencia relegated.

PeterParker wrote:The Neville brothers will get Valencia relegated.

Losing 0-1 to Rayo, it won't be long

Why dont those British managers open their minds and manage abroad then? Why do they HAVE to manage in England? Maybe if they prove themselves they'll get the same chance as a foreigner who has proved himself.

Dameerto wrote:Why dont those British managers open their minds and manage abroad then? Why do they HAVE to manage in England? Maybe if they prove themselves they'll get the same chance as a foreigner who has proved himself.

Great point. The idea that "foreigners" are one people against Brits is silly. The pool of top managers is tiny and there are far more options worldwide to choose from than sticking at home. Chances of getting a great one are higher if the catchment pool is multiplied surely.

Dameerto wrote:Why dont those British managers open their minds and manage abroad then? Why do they HAVE to manage in England? Maybe if they prove themselves they'll get the same chance as a foreigner who has proved himself.

Because they're either too thick or too lazy to learn a foreign language. I genuinely believe that!

Mase wrote:

Dameerto wrote:Why dont those British managers open their minds and manage abroad then? Why do they HAVE to manage in England? Maybe if they prove themselves they'll get the same chance as a foreigner who has proved himself.

Because they're either too thick or too lazy to learn a foreign language. I genuinely believe that!

Was going to mention the language barrier although it didnt hinder Bobby Robson...he could forget names in all languages...and shhteve was speaking anglutch before the ink was dry on his Twente contract

Mase wrote:

Dameerto wrote:Why dont those British managers open their minds and manage abroad then? Why do they HAVE to manage in England? Maybe if they prove themselves they'll get the same chance as a foreigner who has proved himself.

Because they're either too thick or too lazy to learn a foreign language. I genuinely believe that!

It's just a shit argument from Fat Sam, expecting everything to be handed to a manager because of his nationality. If they don't earn it they can't whinge about not getting it.

Dameerto wrote:

Mase wrote:

Dameerto wrote:Why dont those British managers open their minds and manage abroad then? Why do they HAVE to manage in England? Maybe if they prove themselves they'll get the same chance as a foreigner who has proved himself.

Because they're either too thick or too lazy to learn a foreign language. I genuinely believe that!

It's just a shit argument from Fat Sam, expecting everything to be handed to a manager because of his nationality. If they don't earn it they can't whinge about not getting it.

Agree. I do get tired of the "Old Boys Club", I think alot of Chairmen have become wise to some of their antics (I have no evidence of corruption, so I won't mention it)

AS for going abroad, I suspect that, as well as being full of foreigners who speak a different language, the money - even for managing in the Championship is better than, say, a top third Dutch club.

If they weren't all mostly shit they'd get all the chances they want.

I can't think of one I'd want near City in the next decade.

I did like Garry Monk a lot tho. He's pretty good I think. The real deal.

Cheers

English Managers dont exactly cover themselves in Glory!

Pearson managed to keep Leicester up against all the odds last season, they sack him and bring in Ranieri....were they right?
Big Sam managed west ham to a lower mid table 12th, was sacked and they brought in Bilic...... were they right?

No big money spent at each club and very similar squads under both managers!

They are shit. Just like the players, who are probably shit cos from an early age they receive shit coaching from shit coaches telling them to lump the ball to the shit, big kid on shit pitches