Joe Hart

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Re: Joe Hart

Postby Mase » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:34 pm

bigblue wrote:
Mase wrote:
bigblue wrote:Joe is about as City as you can get. I just worry that with Joe, Zabba, and maybe even Vinny soon to leave, we're going to lose most of the players who truly identify with the club and fans.

Joes been with us through all the ups and downs over the years. And more times than not was our standout performer in the CL and key PL games. Just seems undignified to offload someone like this, when they have contributed so much for so long to City

I always assumed he would retire at City. But even if he moves on, he's already a City legend


He's not City to me. The way he loves the rags players, especially after we've just lost and he's running round holding hands with them smiling and joking. That's not City.

He's not been through any downs with us. Unless you're classing missing out on winning the league as a 'down'. There's only Edghill and Williams that are still with the club that have been with us through the 'downs'.


That's just silly to say about Joe, when at the same time being in love with a player who clearly doesn't care about winning a fraction of what Joe does:

https://streamable.com/peg0


You're obsessed with that clip aren't you haha!
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby bigblue » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:40 pm

Im_Spartacus wrote:In my opinion, if he is replaced Joe is likely to be collateral damage as much as anything else, and the footballing bit could well be secondary to Pep laying down a marker to the squad that nobody is safe, just the same as he did when he fucked Ronaldinho (amongst others) off in his first summer at Barca, who most thought was untouchable.


I get the idea, but the comparison falls a bit short. Ronaldinho was a big foreign signing that was partying too hard. Joe's the closest thing that we have to a local player who's been starting for us for years.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby bigblue » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:45 pm

Mase wrote:
You're obsessed with that clip aren't you haha!


I am because it's absolutely disgraceful. You get paid xx,000 pounds per week, in front of 50,000 people and can't even put in the same effort as most people in a Sunday league.

If I was Pellers, he wouldn't have played a single minute for the rest of the season after that. And the fact that he did continue to play explains a lot about why so many other players deemed it ok to piss away most games with 50% effort.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby mr_nool » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:49 pm

Cocacolajojo wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.


1000 thumbs up.


Willy made some horrific howlers in the pre-season game and had one iffy one last night, but he's still always looking for the short pass and he doesn't dally on the ball. Hart usually takes way too long, not giving the ball along the ground despite having team mates in free positions, and instead choosing the long option. Which is a poor one more often than not, since we don't have the personnel up front to deal with it.

That said, I find Joe a far superior keeper overall, but keeping possession and starting play from the back is such an integral part of Pep's philosophy that we can compromise on that.

And, as I said before, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. I think we will just have to trust the management on this one.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby PrezIke » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:56 pm

bigblue wrote:
Mase wrote:
You're obsessed with that clip aren't you haha!


I am because it's absolutely disgraceful. You get paid xx,000 pounds per week, in front of 50,000 people and can't even put in the same effort as most people in a Sunday league.

If I was Pellers, he wouldn't have played a single minute for the rest of the season after that. And the fact that he did continue to play explains a lot about why so many other players deemed it ok to piss away most games with 50% effort.


Did he? I recall that being his last game (on the pitch).
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby PrezIke » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:02 pm

mr_nool wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.


1000 thumbs up.


Willy made some horrific howlers in the pre-season game and had one iffy one last night, but he's still always looking for the short pass and he doesn't dally on the ball. Hart usually takes way too long, not giving the ball along the ground despite having team mates in free positions, and instead choosing the long option. Which is a poor one more often than not, since we don't have the personnel up front to deal with it.

That said, I find Joe a far superior keeper overall, but keeping possession and starting play from the back is such an integral part of Pep's philosophy that we can compromise on that.

And, as I said before, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. I think we will just have to trust the management on this one.


Well put. Agree 100%.

Hart would do better on a team with big striker(s) and/or midfielders who are good in the air.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby Cocacolajojo » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:04 pm

mr_nool wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.


1000 thumbs up.


Willy made some horrific howlers in the pre-season game and had one iffy one last night, but he's still always looking for the short pass and he doesn't dally on the ball. Hart usually takes way too long, not giving the ball along the ground despite having team mates in free positions, and instead choosing the long option. Which is a poor one more often than not, since we don't have the personnel up front to deal with it.

That said, I find Joe a far superior keeper overall, but keeping possession and starting play from the back is such an integral part of Pep's philosophy that we can compromise on that.

And, as I said before, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. I think we will just have to trust the management on this one.


I can't say much but that I find your assessment completely wrong. Not a better passer, not more composed, and does not take less time on the ball. Willy that is. Hart not passing to players in available position I don't agree with either. What we have is yesterday, when we finally had a team focused on being available to the keeper for short and long passes to the feet. Willy played, Hart did not. That's the only instance when playing Willy has worked better for us than Hart (possessionwise) but it was also the first time since... Mancini, we've had a team as organized with several options available, running around and not letting themselves be closed down.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby Cocacolajojo » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:11 pm

Im_Spartacus wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
bigblue wrote:Yeah but Joe is about as City as you can get. I just worry that with Joe, Zabba, and maybe even Vinny soon to leave, we're going to lose most of the players who truly identify with the club and fans.

Joes been with us through all the ups and downs over the years. And more times than not was our standout performer in the CL and key PL games. Just seems undignified to offload someone like this, when they have contributed so much for so long to City


I think this is a legitimate concern.


I agree for what it's worth, but surely we have to look to future heroes rather than let the past ones become a burden and just sit out their career in a comfort zone

One way or another, every single one of the first championship winning team will be gone in the next 2/3 seasons. Whilst that's a cause for concern from an identity and cultural perspective, it's equally the manager's call to suggest some players have been around too long and it's better for all concerned to move some of them on sooner rather than later. Eeess football!

In my opinion, if he is replaced Joe is likely to be collateral damage as much as anything else, and the footballing bit could well be secondary to Pep laying down a marker to the squad that nobody is safe, just the same as he did when he fucked Ronaldinho (amongst others) off in his first summer at Barca, who most thought was untouchable.


Don't get me wrong, Hart's not untouchable and if there are issues with his attitude or a clique that's standing in the way of our growth, fine. If it's only a matter of his feet though I think it wouldn't be fair that a manager who is only going to stay here for three years (an assumption on my behalf) gets to flog Hart off without giving him a chance of adapting to the new system. If Hart tries and fails, then so be it, because that's how we want to play for the forseeable future. If Hart doesn't try he clearly has an attitude problem or simply isn't able to change and knows it, then sell him. I'm with PP on this one, I understand what we want to achieve and how Pep wants to play, but if the rumours are true that Hart's being sold wihtout being given a chance (assuming his sale is based on his lack of technique) I think it's ludicrous as he's hitting his peak. Especially to replace him with a 33 year old.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby PrezIke » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:14 pm

Looking like he is a goner, unless he wants to be the backup.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby PrezIke » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:17 pm

Cocacolajojo wrote:
mr_nool wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.


1000 thumbs up.


Willy made some horrific howlers in the pre-season game and had one iffy one last night, but he's still always looking for the short pass and he doesn't dally on the ball. Hart usually takes way too long, not giving the ball along the ground despite having team mates in free positions, and instead choosing the long option. Which is a poor one more often than not, since we don't have the personnel up front to deal with it.

That said, I find Joe a far superior keeper overall, but keeping possession and starting play from the back is such an integral part of Pep's philosophy that we can compromise on that.

And, as I said before, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. I think we will just have to trust the management on this one.


I can't say much but that I find your assessment completely wrong. Not a better passer, not more composed, and does not take less time on the ball. Willy that is. Hart not passing to players in available position I don't agree with either. What we have is yesterday, when we finally had a team focused on being available to the keeper for short and long passes to the feet. Willy played, Hart did not. That's the only instance when playing Willy has worked better for us than Hart (possessionwise) but it was also the first time since... Mancini, we've had a team as organized with several options available, running around and not letting themselves be closed down.


When you use the word "better" does that mean not at all as in Hart is equal or better than Willy? Sorry, I don't see it. Hart looks as nervous as Lescott or too often Mangala when the ball comes to his feet under any kind of serious pressure.

It doesn't really matter anyway, because neither are good enough to be first choice for a club such as ours under Pep's programme.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby Mase » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:25 pm

bigblue wrote:
Mase wrote:
You're obsessed with that clip aren't you haha!


I am because it's absolutely disgraceful. You get paid xx,000 pounds per week, in front of 50,000 people and can't even put in the same effort as most people in a Sunday league.

If I was Pellers, he wouldn't have played a single minute for the rest of the season after that. And the fact that he did continue to play explains a lot about why so many other players deemed it ok to piss away most games with 50% effort.


He was playing in front of 50k+ yesterday and gave 110%.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby bigblue » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:28 pm

Mase wrote:
bigblue wrote:
Mase wrote:
You're obsessed with that clip aren't you haha!


I am because it's absolutely disgraceful. You get paid xx,000 pounds per week, in front of 50,000 people and can't even put in the same effort as most people in a Sunday league.

If I was Pellers, he wouldn't have played a single minute for the rest of the season after that. And the fact that he did continue to play explains a lot about why so many other players deemed it ok to piss away most games with 50% effort.


He was playing in front of 50k+ yesterday and gave 110%.


Yes, and I like the guy. But like I said in the other thread, I don't trust him. He's fine when the goings easy but if we hit a run of bad form, will Alex be one of the players to roll up their sleeves and work us out of it? Doubt it.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby mr_nool » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:32 pm

Cocacolajojo wrote:
mr_nool wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.


1000 thumbs up.


Willy made some horrific howlers in the pre-season game and had one iffy one last night, but he's still always looking for the short pass and he doesn't dally on the ball. Hart usually takes way too long, not giving the ball along the ground despite having team mates in free positions, and instead choosing the long option. Which is a poor one more often than not, since we don't have the personnel up front to deal with it.

That said, I find Joe a far superior keeper overall, but keeping possession and starting play from the back is such an integral part of Pep's philosophy that we can compromise on that.

And, as I said before, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. I think we will just have to trust the management on this one.


I can't say much but that I find your assessment completely wrong. Not a better passer, not more composed, and does not take less time on the ball. Willy that is. Hart not passing to players in available position I don't agree with either. What we have is yesterday, when we finally had a team focused on being available to the keeper for short and long passes to the feet. Willy played, Hart did not. That's the only instance when playing Willy has worked better for us than Hart (possessionwise) but it was also the first time since... Mancini, we've had a team as organized with several options available, running around and not letting themselves be closed down.


I guess we have to agree to disagree. I really think Willy is better with the ball and has enough confidence to try.

I obviously wouldn't mind Joe getting the chance to prove himself, but he needs to be willing to (not saying he's not, just that that might be the case).
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby Cocacolajojo » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:47 pm

mr_nool wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
mr_nool wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.


1000 thumbs up.


Willy made some horrific howlers in the pre-season game and had one iffy one last night, but he's still always looking for the short pass and he doesn't dally on the ball. Hart usually takes way too long, not giving the ball along the ground despite having team mates in free positions, and instead choosing the long option. Which is a poor one more often than not, since we don't have the personnel up front to deal with it.

That said, I find Joe a far superior keeper overall, but keeping possession and starting play from the back is such an integral part of Pep's philosophy that we can compromise on that.

And, as I said before, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. I think we will just have to trust the management on this one.


I can't say much but that I find your assessment completely wrong. Not a better passer, not more composed, and does not take less time on the ball. Willy that is. Hart not passing to players in available position I don't agree with either. What we have is yesterday, when we finally had a team focused on being available to the keeper for short and long passes to the feet. Willy played, Hart did not. That's the only instance when playing Willy has worked better for us than Hart (possessionwise) but it was also the first time since... Mancini, we've had a team as organized with several options available, running around and not letting themselves be closed down.


I guess we have to agree to disagree. I really think Willy is better with the ball and has enough confidence to try.

I obviously wouldn't mind Joe getting the chance to prove himself, but he needs to be willing to (not saying he's not, just that that might be the case).


Yeah it's odd, because I tend to agree with you on most football things. It is what it is :). We'll see what happens I guess and I assume we both hope that whatever happens it's done with City's long term future in mind.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby nottsblue » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:32 pm

Very interesting thread with the different viewpoints.

I myself happen to be a fan of Hart. That is, he has been our number one for a while now. He has had some poor games like everyone has but in the main he has had far more good games. His clean sheet ratio is good, especially since we are always told how porous our defence is.

He has many attributes a great goalie needs. Not least shot saving, which I believe him to be right up there with the best of them. He is vocal as well which the defence needs. He has a calmness when under pressure.

However, he is not perfect. His penalty area control could be better. His catching could be better. He has developed a distinct weakness on his left side with low shots. And his distribution is decidedly poor.

None of us knows what goes on in the dressing room or how much influence Joe has with other players and indeed whether that is a good or bad thing. But the things the new manager wants his goalkeeper to do well are now different from previous managers. Unfortunately the things Pep wants his goalkeepers to do are just the things that Joe isn't great at, namely distribution and command of the penalty box, (Pep almost wants his goalkeepers to be sweepers as well). At 29, time is not on Joe's side for him to rectify these deficiencies.

Thus the solution for the manager is to play or sign someone who does possess these skills. It is no different from any other position on the field. You adapt and improve or you don't play. It really is that simple. Joe, if he can't/won't/doesn't adapt and improve will thus be sold. I for one will thank him for all he has done with us and wish him all the best at his next club and I have no doubt he will do very well for whoever that may be.

Plus, players in other positions know they have to perform week in week out as no one is safe any more. Pep has big balls, I'll give him that
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby Mase » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:37 pm

nottsblue wrote:Very interesting thread with the different viewpoints.

I myself happen to be a fan of Hart. That is, he has been our number one for a while now. He has had some poor games like everyone has but in the main he has had far more good games. His clean sheet ratio is good, especially since we are always told how porous our defence is.

He has many attributes a great goalie needs. Not least shot saving, which I believe him to be right up there with the best of them. He is vocal as well which the defence needs. He has a calmness when under pressure.

However, he is not perfect. His penalty area control could be better. His catching could be better. He has developed a distinct weakness on his left side with low shots. And his distribution is decidedly poor.

None of us knows what goes on in the dressing room or how much influence Joe has with other players and indeed whether that is a good or bad thing. But the things the new manager wants his goalkeeper to do well are now different from previous managers. Unfortunately the things Pep wants his goalkeepers to do are just the things that Joe isn't great at, namely distribution and command of the penalty box, (Pep almost wants his goalkeepers to be sweepers as well). At 29, time is not on Joe's side for him to rectify these deficiencies.

Thus the solution for the manager is to play or sign someone who does possess these skills. It is no different from any other position on the field. You adapt and improve or you don't play. It really is that simple. Joe, if he can't/won't/doesn't adapt and improve will thus be sold. I for one will thank him for all he has done with us and wish him all the best at his next club and I have no doubt he will do very well for whoever that may be.

Plus, players in other positions know they have to perform week in week out as no one is safe any more. Pep has big balls, I'll give him that


Good post.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby PrezIke » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:00 pm

Mase wrote:
nottsblue wrote:Very interesting thread with the different viewpoints.

I myself happen to be a fan of Hart. That is, he has been our number one for a while now. He has had some poor games like everyone has but in the main he has had far more good games. His clean sheet ratio is good, especially since we are always told how porous our defence is.

He has many attributes a great goalie needs. Not least shot saving, which I believe him to be right up there with the best of them. He is vocal as well which the defence needs. He has a calmness when under pressure.

However, he is not perfect. His penalty area control could be better. His catching could be better. He has developed a distinct weakness on his left side with low shots. And his distribution is decidedly poor.

None of us knows what goes on in the dressing room or how much influence Joe has with other players and indeed whether that is a good or bad thing. But the things the new manager wants his goalkeeper to do well are now different from previous managers. Unfortunately the things Pep wants his goalkeepers to do are just the things that Joe isn't great at, namely distribution and command of the penalty box, (Pep almost wants his goalkeepers to be sweepers as well). At 29, time is not on Joe's side for him to rectify these deficiencies.

Thus the solution for the manager is to play or sign someone who does possess these skills. It is no different from any other position on the field. You adapt and improve or you don't play. It really is that simple. Joe, if he can't/won't/doesn't adapt and improve will thus be sold. I for one will thank him for all he has done with us and wish him all the best at his next club and I have no doubt he will do very well for whoever that may be.

Plus, players in other positions know they have to perform week in week out as no one is safe any more. Pep has big balls, I'll give him that


Good post.


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Re: Joe Hart

Postby johnny crossan » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:54 pm

Joe certainly has had issues with every single manager since he's been here - Clueless sent him on loan and brought in Given, Mancini and Pellegrini were often very critical - but he survived them all. Not this time though, he needs to move on, his qualities are appreciated but his weaknesses remain unimproved and can't be ignored in the system Pep wants to play.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby iwasthere2012 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:02 pm

nottsblue wrote:Very interesting thread with the different viewpoints.

I myself happen to be a fan of Hart. That is, he has been our number one for a while now. He has had some poor games like everyone has but in the main he has had far more good games. His clean sheet ratio is good, especially since we are always told how porous our defence is.

He has many attributes a great goalie needs. Not least shot saving, which I believe him to be right up there with the best of them. He is vocal as well which the defence needs. He has a calmness when under pressure.

However, he is not perfect. His penalty area control could be better. His catching could be better. He has developed a distinct weakness on his left side with low shots. And his distribution is decidedly poor.

None of us knows what goes on in the dressing room or how much influence Joe has with other players and indeed whether that is a good or bad thing. But the things the new manager wants his goalkeeper to do well are now different from previous managers. Unfortunately the things Pep wants his goalkeepers to do are just the things that Joe isn't great at, namely distribution and command of the penalty box, (Pep almost wants his goalkeepers to be sweepers as well). At 29, time is not on Joe's side for him to rectify these deficiencies.

Thus the solution for the manager is to play or sign someone who does possess these skills. It is no different from any other position on the field. You adapt and improve or you don't play. It really is that simple. Joe, if he can't/won't/doesn't adapt and improve will thus be sold. I for one will thank him for all he has done with us and wish him all the best at his next club and I have no doubt he will do very well for whoever that may be.

Plus, players in other positions know they have to perform week in week out as no one is safe any more. Pep has big balls, I'll give him that

Pretty much how I feel.
We've been saying for a while that nobody should be safe and nobody should be an automatic starter. Well we have a manager that is bigger than them all and if he feels that includes the goalkeeper I say, good on you.
I like Hart but at times in his City career he seemed too safe and complacent.
I don't know if he's been given a chance to fight for the position or not. I haven't a clue what goes on in the dressing room. But I trust Pep to sort that team out. Whatever he deems necessary, I'm sure he will do.
I still think we will have a rocky few months, but I know he knows football better than me and I'm going to sit back and enjoy the ride.
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Re: Joe Hart

Postby South Stand Balti » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:15 pm

All things considered Joe, in my opinion, is a far better bet than Willy. It looks like Bravo will sign and Joe, if he decided to stay, will be the number 2. My money would then be on Joe winning his place back.
South Stand Balti
Dickov's Injury Time Equaliser
 
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My favourite player is: Yaya

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