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mr_nool wrote:Joe would not have been able to play the game the way Willy did tonight, I'm sorry to say.

Joe is by far the better "keeper", but if tonight is any indication of how we're going to play he simply doesn't fit the bill.

Willy is as bad or even worse than Hart with the ball. Now, Neuer or Ter Stegen for example, that'd be a huge upgrade on what we have in terms of passing and shooting ability, but Willy's not better.

I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.

1000 thumbs up.

Cocacolajojo wrote:

mr_nool wrote:Joe would not have been able to play the game the way Willy did tonight, I'm sorry to say.

Joe is by far the better "keeper", but if tonight is any indication of how we're going to play he simply doesn't fit the bill.

Willy is as bad or even worse than Hart with the ball. Now, Neuer or Ter Stegen for example, that'd be a huge upgrade on what we have in terms of passing and shooting ability, but Willy's not better.

Agreed. Willy looked petrified every time he had the ball at his feet and you could tell the players knew it.

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.

i reckon Willie got the nod because at least he tried to play the ball against Arsenal - Joe didn't bother so he was dropped

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.

Totally agree and Willy has shown in the friendlies he's quite likely to just pass the ball to the opposition. I'm all for a keeper passing out, but he needs to be capable of doing it, otherwise you may as well play long balls to Aguero's head and then complain he's not good enough.

I've seen very little of Gunn, other than in the one friendly and he looked as poor as Hart or Willy with the ball, but I'll listen to your earlier comment, Doug, that he's usually comfortable. Grimshaw is clearly the type of keeper we're after, but he's a few years and inches away from being a replacement. I'm not even sure it's something you can coach into the senior keepers, so I'm guessing we need to go shopping

Well it looks like it's Bravo that's coming and not Ter Stegen.

Agreed terms with us apparently.

Just read that.

Bravo might be really good, but he's 33 years old. That's no replacement for Hart.

And I feel like the clubs gone a bit impersonal if we replace one of our longest serving players, England's number 1, and an incredible keeper because the manager doesn't think he fits after 1 month in charge.

bigblue wrote:Bravo might be really good, but he's 33 years old. That's no replacement for Hart.

And I feel like the clubs gone a bit impersonal if we replace one of our longest serving players, England's number 1, and an incredible keeper because the manager doesn't think he fits after 1 month in charge.

It was mentioned in the commentary yesterday on Bein about 'player power' having been an issue in the last few years. Whilst this could be speculation following his alleged role in Mancini's demise, it would be interesting to hear what these alleged 'player power' issues were under Pellegrini.

Completely normal for a new manager to lay down the law by breaking up a clique if he feels one exists. Interesting that most are happy to see him bounce Toure out of the door because we perceive him to be a negative influence, but Joe gets a free pass because he's been at the club a long time.

I'm happy to trust the manager on this one

bigblue wrote:Bravo might be really good, but he's 33 years old. That's no replacement for Hart.

And I feel like the clubs gone a bit impersonal if we replace one of our longest serving players, England's number 1, and an incredible keeper because the manager doesn't think he fits after 1 month in charge.

Alternatively, if a player thinks he's too important to play to the manager's instructions then he should be sat on his arse on the sidelines until he thinks about things a little differently.

as others have said.it's a risk. Joe is a good shot stopper but is terrible with distribution; he doesnt fit the way that Pep wants to play.
but how does Pep know that way will work in the premier league the way way that it worked in his previous shitty leagues? maybe he will have to tweak things once he gets more league matches under his belt. maybe Joe will end up working. it's a risk to sell him because he can't do something when you can't be sure what you want him to do will even work.

Joe is about as City as you can get. I just worry that with Joe, Zabba, and maybe even Vinny soon to leave, we're going to lose most of the players who truly identify with the club and fans.

Joes been with us through all the ups and downs over the years. And more times than not was our standout performer in the CL and key PL games. Just seems undignified to offload someone like this, when they have contributed so much for so long to City

I always assumed he would retire at City. But even if he moves on, he's already a City legend

bigblue wrote:Yeah but Joe is about as City as you can get. I just worry that with Joe, Zabba, and maybe even Vinny soon to leave, we're going to lose most of the players who truly identify with the club and fans.

Joes been with us through all the ups and downs over the years. And more times than not was our standout performer in the CL and key PL games. Just seems undignified to offload someone like this, when they have contributed so much for so long to City

I think this is a legitimate concern.

bigblue wrote:Bravo might be really good, but he's 33 years old. That's no replacement for Hart.

And I feel like the clubs gone a bit impersonal if we replace one of our longest serving players, England's number 1, and an incredible keeper because the manager doesn't think he fits after 1 month in charge.

Breaking up clique for me. Time for change. Peps plan, peps team.

bigblue wrote:Joe is about as City as you can get. I just worry that with Joe, Zabba, and maybe even Vinny soon to leave, we're going to lose most of the players who truly identify with the club and fans.

Joes been with us through all the ups and downs over the years. And more times than not was our standout performer in the CL and key PL games. Just seems undignified to offload someone like this, when they have contributed so much for so long to City

I always assumed he would retire at City. But even if he moves on, he's already a City legend

He's not City to me. The way he loves the rags players, especially after we've just lost and he's running round holding hands with them smiling and joking. That's not City.

He's not been through any downs with us. Unless you're classing missing out on winning the league as a 'down'. There's only Edghill and Williams that are still with the club that have been with us through the 'downs'.

Cocacolajojo wrote:

bigblue wrote:Yeah but Joe is about as City as you can get. I just worry that with Joe, Zabba, and maybe even Vinny soon to leave, we're going to lose most of the players who truly identify with the club and fans.

Joes been with us through all the ups and downs over the years. And more times than not was our standout performer in the CL and key PL games. Just seems undignified to offload someone like this, when they have contributed so much for so long to City

I think this is a legitimate concern.

I agree for what it's worth, but surely we have to look to future heroes rather than let the past ones become a burden and just sit out their career in a comfort zone

One way or another, every single one of the first championship winning team will be gone in the next 2/3 seasons. Whilst that's a cause for concern from an identity and cultural perspective, it's equally the manager's call to suggest some players have been around too long and it's better for all concerned to move some of them on sooner rather than later. Eeess football!

In my opinion, if he is replaced Joe is likely to be collateral damage as much as anything else, and the footballing bit could well be secondary to Pep laying down a marker to the squad that nobody is safe, just the same as he did when he fucked Ronaldinho (amongst others) off in his first summer at Barca, who most thought was untouchable.

Seems things may not be as bad as they appear for him.

BBC

Wooders wrote:

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I am amazed at those who thought Willie showed yesterday that he is better than Joe with the ball at his feet. He made one shocking passing error and once charged out of goal to clear a long through ball. Joe might have made the same bad pass ( I doubt it) and would certainly have been out to clear the long ball.

Don't get me wrong I think Joe's distribution is pretty poor but I just don't think Willie's is much better if it's better at all.

i reckon Willie got the nod because at least he tried to play the ball against Arsenal - Joe didn't bother so he was dropped

I raised this question as well.

Also, Doug, I am again not saying Willie is so great with the ball. I saw that pass as well, but I think it's not just distribution, it's just ball at feet in general and composure under pressure. Again I feel Willie is only marginally better than Joe and this also has to do with with training with the new style of play which Pep alluded to as another factor saying Willie has been doing well, hinting Joe has not.

However on MOTD they also referred to the moment where Willie came out as a sweeper keeper to clear the ball when we gave it away with Clichy and Sagna in the centre midfield leaving us exposed, suggesting Hart may also not be as comfortable coming that far out.

Mase wrote:

bigblue wrote:Joe is about as City as you can get. I just worry that with Joe, Zabba, and maybe even Vinny soon to leave, we're going to lose most of the players who truly identify with the club and fans.

Joes been with us through all the ups and downs over the years. And more times than not was our standout performer in the CL and key PL games. Just seems undignified to offload someone like this, when they have contributed so much for so long to City

I always assumed he would retire at City. But even if he moves on, he's already a City legend

He's not City to me. The way he loves the rags players, especially after we've just lost and he's running round holding hands with them smiling and joking. That's not City.

He's not been through any downs with us. Unless you're classing missing out on winning the league as a 'down'. There's only Edghill and Williams that are still with the club that have been with us through the 'downs'.

That's just silly to say about Joe, when at the same time being in love with a player who clearly doesn't care about winning a fraction of what Joe does:

https://streamable.com/peg0