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Original Dub wrote:And let's not take away from him the fact that he did something every one of us has wanted to see for fucking years.

He went in two footed on the biggest cunt in football.

Bravo old chap

Absolutely. Shame he didn't snap the obnoxious, fat, penalty appealing, socks rolled down fucker in half.

Not worried about him at all. Media will love it but that's just the way they are. He wasn't great at some of the "normal" goalkeeping but it's a first game and he will be fine. Arguably Stones error as much as his anyway for the goal but some of the other on the floor being pary of the general play was fine.

Anyway if Pep's happy with him so am I!

Bang on Doug.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:There is a rush to judgement about this lad on here which is just silly. Bravo is a top keeper, he was unlucky to get clattered by Stones today to gift them the goal. Aside from a couple of other anxious moments he's added a really important dimension to our build up play which we've never seen the like of before.

He's a goalkeeper, they're subjected to harsher criticism from fans than any other player on the pitch, it has always been thus.

No, he isn't a goalkeeper, we played without a goalkeeper. We had eleven outfield players, just happens one can handle the ball sometimes. For better or worse. Will it work in this league? Time will tell. Certainly hope so!

You could see why we wanted him in the first half, he made an extra man so we always had an option at the back and couldn't be pressed easily. It looked quite easy on the eye. Suddenly he dropped a bollock and it became a bit Keystone Cops back there.
But it will work.

Socrates wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:There is a rush to judgement about this lad on here which is just silly. Bravo is a top keeper, he was unlucky to get clattered by Stones today to gift them the goal. Aside from a couple of other anxious moments he's added a really important dimension to our build up play which we've never seen the like of before.

He's a goalkeeper, they're subjected to harsher criticism from fans than any other player on the pitch, it has always been thus.

No, he isn't a goalkeeper, we played without a goalkeeper. We had eleven outfield players, just happens one can handle the ball sometimes.

Don't be silly.

If we jump on him we are doing the press job for them. See sterling Raheem as the most recent example.

We all saw 1st half what he brings, let's not take away the fact that a Manchester derby is a hell of a way to debut and it's a reasonable new back 4 with stones as well. Patience and support your team.

Pretty Boy Lee wrote:If we jump on him we are doing the press job for them. See sterling Raheem as the most recent example.

We all saw 1st half what he brings, let's not take away the fact that a Manchester derby is a hell of a way to debut and it's a reasonable new back 4 with stones as well. Patience and support your team.

I remember Evras first derby. If Bravo does as well for us in the next five years as he did for them we will all be very happy.

One of Pep's alleged worries over Joe Hart came after the MoM performance he had against Barca in the Champs League. Save after save. Pep's point was that if Joe had managed his defence better then he would not have come under such pressure.

Bravo is supposed to be a top organiser of a defence and he will soon get ours playing and positioning the way he wants them. When that happens the clean sheets will come.

Blackadder wrote:One of Pep's alleged worries over Joe Hart came after the MoM performance he had against Barca in the Champs League. Save after save. Pep's point was that if Joe had managed his defence better then he would not have come under such pressure.

Bravo is supposed to be a top organiser of a defence and he will soon get ours playing and positioning the way he wants them. When that happens the clean sheets will come.

Have you any quotes or did he just tell you personally?

Socrates wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:There is a rush to judgement about this lad on here which is just silly. Bravo is a top keeper, he was unlucky to get clattered by Stones today to gift them the goal. Aside from a couple of other anxious moments he's added a really important dimension to our build up play which we've never seen the like of before.

He's a goalkeeper, they're subjected to harsher criticism from fans than any other player on the pitch, it has always been thus.

No, he isn't a goalkeeper, we played without a goalkeeper. We had eleven outfield players, just happens one can handle the ball sometimes. For better or worse. Will it work in this league? Time will tell. Certainly hope so!

I think Socs, that if Pep feels it will work in the Premier League, then it most probably will.

Moreover, if Pep knows he'll be the 'keeper we need, then he most certainly will be.

I know it's early days and I always bore everyone silly moaning about the purported need for another striker but, from what we've seen already, it won't be long before we're playing football from a different continuum, when compared to the rest of the plodders in this Division.

(PS. How are you by the way)

Yes he could have cost us the win yesterday. The media would have loved that. They will go on about how teams are going to bombard us aerially to put him under pressure.
They might well do that, but they'll need possession of the football to do that.
I saw enough in his first half performance in particular to get a glimpse of how Pep is going to have is play and why he chose him.
I don't think we would have had a quarter of the possession we did with Hart in goal.
Not picking on Joe. Just the fact that he would have hoofed a lot more to nobody in particular and we would have conceded possession. This would have put us under much more pressure, than the 5 minutes or so that came at the end of the first half.

Even our second goal, although it came from a long ball by Kola, was started by passing the ball back and forth between keeper and full back, before releasing to Kolarov.

United are a long ball team and one of the better ones on the league. We outplayed them in every way.

Bravo will fit in fine and when this is fine tuned and he gets the communication going with his defenders, look out league.
Somebody is going to get well and truly spanked.

Edit: Should have been our First goal of course.

I was thinking,,, is Pep playing the game with the media. He said he ilearns quick in his Friday presser, which is I think is refference to the trial by Sky on Kun. Bravo was as good as he has seen is fantastic and at the same time a piss take.

Torino lost in Joe's 1st game.

Original Dub wrote:

Blackadder wrote:One of Pep's alleged worries over Joe Hart came after the MoM performance he had against Barca in the Champs League. Save after save. Pep's point was that if Joe had managed his defence better then he would not have come under such pressure.

Bravo is supposed to be a top organiser of a defence and he will soon get ours playing and positioning the way he wants them. When that happens the clean sheets will come.

Have you any quotes or did he just tell you personally?

Heard 2nd hand from a journo, seems plausible though.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:There is a rush to judgement about this lad on here which is just silly. Bravo is a top keeper, he was unlucky to get clattered by Stones today to gift them the goal. Aside from a couple of other anxious moments he's added a really important dimension to our build up play which we've never seen the like of before.

He's a goalkeeper, they're subjected to harsher criticism from fans than any other player on the pitch, it has always been thus.

I don't think there have been any judgements, he made several big mistakes against a side who worked out that he seemed to have lost the plot on about 43 minutes in, and pressed to make it worse.

Nobody's calling him out as shit, but let's not 'polish a turd' though, it was a poor performance by any standards. But equally those who are calling him out on a poor performance are mostly understanding of the fact that he needs to play more with the defence and Fernandinho to get a proper understanding of each others' expectations if we are going to try and play this type of possession based football out from the back.

What I will say in his favour, is that before the 43rd minute, he was absolutely instrumental in pulling 3 united forwards out of play for a large part of the first half, which negated their pressing (although I think they pressed a little too half heartedly early on) and allowed us to pass the ball around their midfield with impunity - thats what I hope we see more of.

Im_Spartacus wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:There is a rush to judgement about this lad on here which is just silly. Bravo is a top keeper, he was unlucky to get clattered by Stones today to gift them the goal. Aside from a couple of other anxious moments he's added a really important dimension to our build up play which we've never seen the like of before.

He's a goalkeeper, they're subjected to harsher criticism from fans than any other player on the pitch, it has always been thus.

I don't think there have been any judgements, he made several big mistakes against a side who worked out that he seemed to have lost the plot on about 43 minutes in, and pressed to make it worse.

Nobody's calling him out as shit, but let's not 'polish a turd' though, it was a poor performance by any standards. But equally those who are calling him out on a poor performance are mostly understanding of the fact that he needs to play more with the defence and Fernandinho to get a proper understanding of each others' expectations if we are going to try and play this type of possession based football out from the back.

What I will say in his favour, is that before the 43rd minute, he was absolutely instrumental in pulling 3 united forwards out of play for a large part of the first half, which negated their pressing (although I think they pressed a little too half heartedly early on) and allowed us to pass the ball around their midfield with impunity - thats what I hope we see more of.

Good summary.

Im_Spartacus wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:There is a rush to judgement about this lad on here which is just silly. Bravo is a top keeper, he was unlucky to get clattered by Stones today to gift them the goal. Aside from a couple of other anxious moments he's added a really important dimension to our build up play which we've never seen the like of before.

He's a goalkeeper, they're subjected to harsher criticism from fans than any other player on the pitch, it has always been thus.

I don't think there have been any judgements, he made several big mistakes against a side who worked out that he seemed to have lost the plot on about 43 minutes in, and pressed to make it worse.

Nobody's calling him out as shit, but let's not 'polish a turd' though, it was a poor performance by any standards. But equally those who are calling him out on a poor performance are mostly understanding of the fact that he needs to play more with the defence and Fernandinho to get a proper understanding of each others' expectations if we are going to try and play this type of possession based football out from the back.

What I will say in his favour, is that before the 43rd minute, he was absolutely instrumental in pulling 3 united forwards out of play for a large part of the first half, which negated their pressing (although I think they pressed a little too half heartedly early on) and allowed us to pass the ball around their midfield with impunity - thats what I hope we see more of.

I never said there was any judgements, I was just making a general observation.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Im_Spartacus wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:There is a rush to judgement about this lad on here which is just silly. Bravo is a top keeper, he was unlucky to get clattered by Stones today to gift them the goal. Aside from a couple of other anxious moments he's added a really important dimension to our build up play which we've never seen the like of before.

He's a goalkeeper, they're subjected to harsher criticism from fans than any other player on the pitch, it has always been thus.

I don't think there have been any judgements, he made several big mistakes against a side who worked out that he seemed to have lost the plot on about 43 minutes in, and pressed to make it worse.

Nobody's calling him out as shit, but let's not 'polish a turd' though, it was a poor performance by any standards. But equally those who are calling him out on a poor performance are mostly understanding of the fact that he needs to play more with the defence and Fernandinho to get a proper understanding of each others' expectations if we are going to try and play this type of possession based football out from the back.

What I will say in his favour, is that before the 43rd minute, he was absolutely instrumental in pulling 3 united forwards out of play for a large part of the first half, which negated their pressing (although I think they pressed a little too half heartedly early on) and allowed us to pass the ball around their midfield with impunity - thats what I hope we see more of.

I never said there was any judgements, I was just making a general observation.

Crossan did tho......i think your point is spot on

With regard to the goal we conceded yesterday, Bravo came out to try to catch the ball and getting entangled with Stones didn't help him in his endeavours.

If Joe had been in goal, he might have elected to punch instead and, personally, I think he probably would have punched it if he had decided to come off his line.

In such circumstances, punching may, or may not, have relieved the pressure in this one instance but, for myself, although Bravo dropped a clanger, I feel more optimistic that he actually tried to catch it and a bit more work on the training pitch would, to some extent, eradicate potential collisions with his defenders in the future.

Bruce Grobbelaar, in his Liverpool heyday, used to consistently come quite a distance from his goal-line to catch crosses and, inevitably, he used to drop some of them from time to time.

I remember the great Brian Clough saying about him that, because he played in such a positive (and almost daredevil) fashion and, by doing this, snuffed out opposition aerial attacks, he was "allowed" to drop a clanger or two and the football club and fans should not criticise him unfairly over this.

If, in spite of his smaller stature, Bravo tries to dominate his goal area by catching, rather than punching, I think he should be applauded - always assuming that that his his preferred style .

However, it's very early days and only time will tell if he turns out to be a success or a failure with us.