Fat Cats carve-up

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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby BlueinBosnia » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:02 pm

Where are these spaces coming from?

At the moment, 22 places in the group stage are predetermined, but another/a different 5 will become so (4th from Spain, England and Germany, 3rd & 4th from Italy). Will this be to the detriment of leagues like France and Portugal, who currently get 2(+1) places, or will it remove qualifying places from leagues like Turkey and Belgium? Or, alternatively,will it do away with the 'League Route' of qualifying altogether, leaving 27 automatic, plus 5 Champions in the group stage? I haven't seen anything written about this anywhere.

Also, if CL & EL winners come from 2 of the top 4 countries, will that mean that 18 of the 32 places will be from just 4 countries?
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby john@staustell » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:15 am

MEN has re-run Samuel's article. I have hopes the new CEO will 'review' this madness, then bury it. I don't care if City ARE party to it. Champions League should be for Champions, full stop. Unlike the people at the top of the European game, the fans priority is not always for the clubs to make more and more money.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... a-11891541?
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby Peter Doherty (AGAIG) » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:19 am

john@staustell wrote:MEN has re-run Samuel's article. I have hopes the new CEO will 'review' this madness, then bury it. I don't care if City ARE party to it. Champions League should be for Champions, full stop. Unlike the people at the top of the European game, the fans priority is not always for the clubs to make more and more money.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... a-11891541?

Amen.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby Original Dub » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:29 am

Stuart Brennan has done a good piece on it now too.

He says the booing has to continue until UEFA stop cheating basically and he's right.

Someone needs to have a word with pep and fill him in.

Bad shit needs highlighting. That's how bad shit goes away.

The end.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby Cocacolajojo » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:38 am

john@staustell wrote:MEN has re-run Samuel's article. I have hopes the new CEO will 'review' this madness, then bury it. I don't care if City ARE party to it. Champions League should be for Champions, full stop. Unlike the people at the top of the European game, the fans priority is not always for the clubs to make more and more money.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... a-11891541?


I completely agree with this and it's honestly made me care a lot less about the CL than I did before.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby CTID Hants » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:32 am

Original Dub wrote:Stuart Brennan has done a good piece on it now too.

He says the booing has to continue until UEFA stop cheating basically and he's right.

Someone needs to have a word with pep and fill him in.

Bad shit needs highlighting. That's how bad shit goes away.

The end.


Very good article indeed, somebody needs to show Pep it, in particular the last paragraph......

Here's a deal. When Uefa start acting like a responsible governing body, rather than flagrantly bowing down every time United or Milan, or whoever, gets a bit of a curly lip, City fans might show them some respect.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby Justified logic » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:39 am

CTID Hants wrote:
Original Dub wrote:Stuart Brennan has done a good piece on it now too.

He says the booing has to continue until UEFA stop cheating basically and he's right.

Someone needs to have a word with pep and fill him in.

Bad shit needs highlighting. That's how bad shit goes away.

The end.


Very good article indeed, somebody needs to show Pep it, in particular the last paragraph......

Here's a deal. When Uefa start acting like a responsible governing body, rather than flagrantly bowing down every time United or Milan, or whoever, gets a bit of a curly lip, City fans might show them some respect.

Yeah, I'm rather sad that Pep doesn't get it or even make an effort to get it. But then he hasn't experienced the bias and unfair treatment at the elite clubs he's been at.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby iwasthere2012 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:40 pm

Der Kaiser

I know we had someting concerning this a few pages back, but this is probably relevant in here concerning the integrity of those that influence the top table.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby JamieMCFC » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:24 pm

Justified logic wrote:
CTID Hants wrote:
Original Dub wrote:Stuart Brennan has done a good piece on it now too.

He says the booing has to continue until UEFA stop cheating basically and he's right.

Someone needs to have a word with pep and fill him in.

Bad shit needs highlighting. That's how bad shit goes away.

The end.


Very good article indeed, somebody needs to show Pep it, in particular the last paragraph......

Here's a deal. When Uefa start acting like a responsible governing body, rather than flagrantly bowing down every time United or Milan, or whoever, gets a bit of a curly lip, City fans might show them some respect.

Yeah, I'm rather sad that Pep doesn't get it or even make an effort to get it. But then he hasn't experienced the bias and unfair treatment at the elite clubs he's been at.


Pep was brought in to take us to that next level. Which is winning the Champions League. He might see the booing as hindrance to winning it. So he has asked the supporters to get behind the team so he can achieve one of his objectives.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby Justified logic » Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:53 pm

JamieMCFC wrote:
Justified logic wrote:
CTID Hants wrote:
Original Dub wrote:Stuart Brennan has done a good piece on it now too.

He says the booing has to continue until UEFA stop cheating basically and he's right.

Someone needs to have a word with pep and fill him in.

Bad shit needs highlighting. That's how bad shit goes away.

The end.


Very good article indeed, somebody needs to show Pep it, in particular the last paragraph......

Here's a deal. When Uefa start acting like a responsible governing body, rather than flagrantly bowing down every time United or Milan, or whoever, gets a bit of a curly lip, City fans might show them some respect.

Yeah, I'm rather sad that Pep doesn't get it or even make an effort to get it. But then he hasn't experienced the bias and unfair treatment at the elite clubs he's been at.


Pep was brought in to take us to that next level. Which is winning the Champions League. He might see the booing as hindrance to winning it. So he has asked the supporters to get behind the team so he can achieve one of his objectives.

The supporters are behind the team, just not willing to dance along to UEFA's tune. I'm a believer in absolute morality not relative morality and, as others have said, the booing can stop when UEFA starts acting fairly to all clubs. If Pep doesn't get that then I'm sorry but tough titties.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby johnny crossan » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:04 pm

Please read the Martin Samuel article pasted by the OP - the only journo with the bottle to call out Gill


'So, from the season after next, half of the group stage places will be split between four countries: Spain, England and Germany — whose clubs tend to make the necessary progress through the play-offs — plus over-rated Italy.
A country that can barely merit three teams at elite level will now be entitled to one more, and no play-off required.
Yet, as with much of what UEFA do, the devil is in the details. And what details they are. On page 11 of the UEFA document announcing the new cycle, the extent of Italy's gain can be found; or, to be precise, the extent of the gain for one club: AC Milan.
That Giorgio Marchetti, UEFA's director of club competitions, should be one of the prime movers in the reorganisation of the Champions League co-efficients is no doubt purely coincidental.
Marchetti was born in Luino, north of Milan, was educated in Milan, and supports Milan. Not that he will have let that cloud his thinking when plotting this new course — or allowed Milan's enormous self-regard to skew the competition in their favour.
On one sheet is the current co-efficient ranking table, which uses the period from 2011-12 to 2015-16 and is based on current form. This shows Milan in 25th place in Europe. They have fallen behind not just the continent's aristocracy but some lesser royalty, too. Basle. Manchester City. Tottenham. Athletic Bilbao.


Underachieving AC Milan stand to be among the big winners of the new tournament format
Against this list is another table, showing the positions after the new co-efficients have been calculated, over the same period. Milan are now ninth. And what did Milan actually achieve in that five-season spell to warrant this 16-place leap? Nothing.
Domestically, Milan came second in 2011-12 and third in 2012-13 — and then collapsed. A dramatic slide down the table saw them finish eighth, 10th and seventh last season.

Their European form confirms the same downward spiral. Champions League quarter-finalists in 2011-12, defeated by Barcelona. Out to Barcelona again the following season, this time in the last 16 and beaten 4-0 at Nou Camp. And then, season 2013-14, Milan's last in Europe. A 5-1 aggregate humiliation by Atletico Madrid in the last 16, including home and away defeats. Since when, nothing.
Milan have failed to qualify for Europe in the last two seasons over which UEFA's co-efficients were calculated. They are not involved again this year, either.
They finished four points adrift of Italy's final Europa League qualifier, the mighty Sassuolo. And yet, there they are, up 16 places on the back of half a decade in the wilderness.
In one mighty act of bureaucratic skulduggery, Milan leapt over what they would regard as their inferiors, the little big clubs: Arsenal, Manchester City, Valencia, Schalke, Sevilla, Zenit St Petersburg, Porto, Napoli, Bayer Leverkusen, Basle, Manchester United, Shakhtar Donetsk, Athletic Bilbao, Tottenham and Olympiacos.
And they didn't even have to be good enough to get into Europe to do it.

How? History. Milan have succeeded in getting ancient success included in the co-efficients. They get credit for being good more than half a century ago. All clubs will under UEFA's scheme to protect the existing European order. Points are now awarded for winning European trophies, no matter when. Bigger points for recent successes, plainly, but even Milan's first European Cup win in 1963 counts.
You know those clubs who bang on about their storied history to compensate for recent failures? Now their blather is vindicated. Thanks to UEFA — and the elite cabal they placed in charge of this reimagining of fairness — what Benfica achieved when Eusebio was playing remains relevant in the modern era.
Also up 13 spots under the new co-efficient system are Liverpool — from 35th to 22nd, despite never having won the Premier League, or a European trophy since 2005. Celtic have risen 16 slots.

The big fallers? Well, that's not hard to work out, either. All those smaller clubs that have had the temerity to be successful recently, with new money. Villarreal, down 14 places; Manchester City, 11th to 16th; Paris Saint-Germain, seventh to 10th; Napoli, 17th to 20th; Atletico Madrid, down one; Athletic Bilbao, down eight.
England's representative in this grand carve-up was Gill and — surprise, surprise — Manchester United rise from 20th to 12th under the new system, despite failing to qualify for the Champions League in two of the last three seasons. How Gill is still regarded as a credible presence in football administration, heaven knows.

Now, what Benfica achieved when Eusebio was playing remains relevant in the modern era
He recommended the Football Association back the discredited Michel Platini for UEFA president — and what a delight that he will speak at UEFA's congress today, despite being banned from all football activity — and every move he makes seems to be for the financial benefit of the biggest clubs, and one in particular.
Manchester United made a pig's ear of the succession to Sir Alex Ferguson, and have reached the last eight of the Champions League once since appearing in the final in 2011.

But no matter. Along comes Gill to make it right, and ensure they stay above Manchester City in one table at least. City are 11th, United 20th in the current system. Thanks to Gill and his cohorts, United flip to 12th, City plummet to 16th.

And the chicanery does not stop there. Not only have Europe's established order carved up the seedings, they have redistributed the money like latter-day Robin Hoods — if the Merry Men had dedicated their lives to shafting the poor to put a new wing on the Sheriff of Nottingham's castle.
So THE BT deal accounted for £1billion of UEFA's £2.4bn pot. And, with England claiming 40 per cent of that, it made the rest of Europe jealous.
So, in the new cycle of Champions League wealth distribution, the 40 per cent slice has been reduced to 15 per cent. That in itself is no bad thing. Wealth redistribution for European competition is long overdue. Far more money should go to each domestic league to keep the competition healthy.

David Gill's every move seems to benefit Manchester United and their wealthy friends
It is ridiculous that UEFA's largesse can as good as kill domestic football, as has been allowed to happen in countries such as Belarus where BATE Borisov are now close to unstoppable.

But that is not how this is going to work. The other 85 per cent is going to be returned to the market pool of competing clubs and will be split according to — you guessed it — UEFA co-efficient.
So the big winners out of the English television deal will be those clubs who have been bumped up the table by historic success, plus the existing giants of the European game — deserving causes such as Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich.
Having struck inferior deals for their domestic product — because their greed has made their own leagues uncompetitive — they have redressed the balance by grabbing a slice of the Premier League wedge. But it's not a renegotiation. It's a heist. A perfect crime.
The established order of Real Madrid and the top teams are also set to benefit

Just when new investment was threatening to level the field, as has happened in England, the wealthy established order have found a way of enhancing their status yet again.
They don't even have to be good at football. Just good once. In black and white. On the way to their first European Cup final win over Benfica, Milan defeated Union Luxembourg (14-0), Ipswich (4-2), Galatasaray (8-1) and Dundee (5-2). They get co-efficient points for that feat now.

So it is a raid. A smash and grab cooked up by the traditional elite and their little helpers — men like Gill and Marchetti — to keep the rich richer, leave the poor poorer, and stop any new names making a claim for what they see as theirs by right.
Last edited by johnny crossan on Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby carolina-blue » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:10 pm

Original Dub wrote:Stuart Brennan has done a good piece on it now too.

He says the booing has to continue until UEFA stop cheating basically and he's right.

Someone needs to have a word with pep and fill him in.

Bad shit needs highlighting. That's how bad shit goes away.

The end.


O D having read the bit about Calling Gill and his Cronies out . You are completely correct the booing has to continue . Support goes two ways we support Pep with the Changes on the field He should support us on this
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby brite blu sky » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:26 pm

City fans standing up to this ridiculous corruption by voicing their dissent
- which by the way does work, it really does annoy UEFAs self image -
by booing or say the Poznan has to, really has to continue now more than ever.

I love Summerbee but he is just wrong on this.
I love the fact that we can play the other teams round Europe, pitch up against the best out there...
I like the special occasion of it all.

But the fact that these self serving, arrogant cunts think they can do what they want in the face of
the everyday fan, without which there would be no football at this level at all, at all.
That needs countering and the more it pricks their smug self image the better.

It is not small minded Mike it is simple protest.
And given the announcement of the new arrangements even more valid than ever.

That said as City fans are an especially creative and irreverent bunch at heart, IF it is rekoned that we may get labelled as
small minded, then a change of tactic or tune would be timely, just to show these cunts that we will outwit them and outplay them
on and off the field.


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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby london blue 2 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:32 pm

Poznan the fuck out of them. The change in protest will be highlighted by the media which will drive the point and still create atmosphere.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby iwasthere2012 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:04 pm

london blue 2 wrote:Poznan the fuck out of them. The change in protest will be highlighted by the media which will drive the point and still create atmosphere.

Best idea I've heard so far. A full house doing the Poznan could not be overlooked.
Followed by a full house singing Bluemoon.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:12 pm

Some fans have to stop being wimps bowing down to peps request.
He's just arrived and we have been shafted by UEFA for years and so the booing has to go on and on and on - louder than last time to drive the point home to pep that we are City fans more loyal to our club than to any manager.

Fucking UEFA , corrupt pigs.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby iwasthere2012 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:37 pm

carl_feedthegoat wrote:Some fans have to stop being wimps bowing down to peps request.
He's just arrived and we have been shafted by UEFA for years and so the booing has to go on and on and on - louder than last time to drive the point home to pep that we are City fans more loyal to our club than to any manager.

Fucking UEFA , corrupt pigs.

As I said previously Carl, I have no problem with the booing if that's the form of protest people choose.
I think calling people wimps who are suggesting a different protest is knee jerk though. I haven't come across anyone on here saying to give up protesting because of Pep.
Some have suggested doing something that has s more positive affect on the team.

Personally I think that is worth looking at.
I do think you are right that the protest should be more vociferous as a result of both Peps comments and the dirty plans being suggested by Gill and co.
Whether that protest is booing or something else that may be equally or more conspicuous on tv and yet have a positive affect on the atmosphere and the team is what is being debated.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby Piccsnumberoneblue » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:06 am

If we do a Poznan, it will be construed that we're all happy with Uefa now and we have come round to realising the Chumps League is great.
Possibly
City and sniffing knickers.
Come on Blues.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby aaron bond » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:08 am

I can understand if Pep was concerned about the attendance but in this case the game was put back 24 hours and would have been a hassle for many. The attendance will be a lot higher of the next 2 home CL games.

But he needs to understand the context of why the fans boo. UEFA is clearly a corrupt organisation and directly targeted us by creating FFP at the request of other clubs, particularly the Milan clubs. Platini admitted this! They then relaxed the rules when the same clubs were suffering and needed a large source of outside investment.

Now the latest changes to the CL are some of the worst yet. Significantly increasing funding for other Europeans clubs, guaranteed extra places and amending the coefficients so that what a team did in the 1960s impacts their ranking today!

We know the booing pisses UEFA off and it is highlighted all over the world when we do it. Unfortunately only a handful of journalists and small number of football fans worldwide seem bothered about this clear corruption. There's no reason for it to stop, at least when the anthem is being played, as we're playing in a competition which is constantly doing its best to prevent us from winning it.
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Re: Fat Cats carve-up

Postby Justified logic » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:37 am

So, boo whilst doing the Poznan.
Followed by a rendition of Bluemoon whilst mooning.
Sounds like a plan.
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