Full backs and youth policy

[Sideshow Bob]

I'm sorry but it is impossible Angelino and Maffeo are more of a liability than the far past it Zabba and shithouse cunt Kolarov. Why the hell did we send them out on loan? Was excited to see Pep give some youngsters the chance, but so far he's done less than Pellers in that department

For me this is the biggest mystery and the biggest disappointment of peps early reign. We've been desperate for new blood at fullback for years. Pellegrini was never going to give our kids a chance but I thought things would change under pep.

[john@staustell]

I'm sorry but it is impossible Angelino and Maffeo are more of a liability than the far past it Zabba and shithouse cunt Kolarov. Why the hell did we send them out on loan? Was excited to see Pep give some youngsters the chance, but so far he's done less than Pellers in that department

For me this is the biggest mystery and the biggest disappointment of peps early reign. We've been desperate for new blood at fullback for years. Pellegrini was never going to give our kids a chance but I thought things would change under pep.

Angelino now going to Mallorca. Couldn't get a game at Girona. Possibly not the great full back hope after all

[Scatman]

I'm sorry but it is impossible Angelino and Maffeo are more of a liability than the far past it Zabba and shithouse cunt Kolarov. Why the hell did we send them out on loan? Was excited to see Pep give some youngsters the chance, but so far he's done less than Pellers in that department

For me this is the biggest mystery and the biggest disappointment of peps early reign. We've been desperate for new blood at fullback for years. Pellegrini was never going to give our kids a chance but I thought things would change under pep.

Angelino now going to Mallorca. Couldn't get a game at Girona. Possibly not the great full back hope after all

It doesn't matter. He's young, a full back and an academy graduade, and for some people this is all the qualifications needed to be given a chance. Never mind what he can and cannot do.

[iwasthere2012]

I disagree with Zabaleta being past it. However if you want your fullbacks to charge forward as both our previous two managers wanted you need to have rock solid central defenders who can cover. When Vinny was behind Zabaleta they both were ace. Can't expect that from Stones yet and ahouldn't ever expect that from Otamendi.

Kolarov is one of the great mysteries to me. I didn't like him from day one as you could instantly see he can NOT defend. How on earth has he survived SIX years with the club. Mancini bought Clichy the following summer clearly admitting his mistake with Kolarov yet somehow he is still here. I don't get it.

Re: Angelino and Maffeo, they are WAY too young to be thrown into defensive set up we have right now. If we had solid defence I could've seen them being given ten games or so this year being slowly introduced. Loan is absolutely best thing for them right now. They need competitive games against grown men regularily now. And if they are as good as you thinkmthey will absolutely dominate Spanish second division.

I've made the same point a few times in the EDS/Academy thread. I think we will not see a true progression route for the academy players, particularly in defence, until we have a first team capable of playing the way pep wants this team to play. You could argue similar under Pellegrini's tenure. Although, I don't understand why he didn't take a chance on some once he knew he was going anyway.

In short. Until the first team are fully functional, i don't think you will see the academy conveyor belt begin.

[aaron bond]

I'm sorry but it is impossible Angelino and Maffeo are more of a liability than the far past it Zabba and shithouse cunt Kolarov. Why the hell did we send them out on loan? Was excited to see Pep give some youngsters the chance, but so far he's done less than Pellers in that department

For me this is the biggest mystery and the biggest disappointment of peps early reign. We've been desperate for new blood at fullback for years. Pellegrini was never going to give our kids a chance but I thought things would change under pep.

Angelino now going to Mallorca. Couldn't get a game at Girona. Possibly not the great full back hope after all

It doesn't matter. He's young, a full back and an academy graduade, and for some people this is all the qualifications needed to be given a chance. Never mind what he can and cannot do.

But we don't know what he can do for us in our first team.

Using United as an example, over the years they've had plenty of defenders who aren't very good on paper - O'Shea, Silvestre, Brown, Evans etc. But they all played plenty of matches in what was mostly a successful United side.

If you have a good system and/or have other good players in the side, then some players who might not necessarily be star players can fill in and do a good enough job when required.

Instead, we have persisted with Zabaleta who has been hopelessly off the pace for 18 months now. Clichy's legs have completely gone this season, whilst Kolarov has never been great at full back.

Angelino and Maffeo may or may not be good enough. But considering how shockingly bad our defence has been this season and how old the players are, it could not have hurt us to give the youngsters some game time.

This isn't just an issue at full back though. It's the same all over the pitch - Tosin at centre back, Garcia in midfield, Iheanacho up front...

[Mikhail Chigorin]

I'm sorry but it is impossible Angelino and Maffeo are more of a liability than the far past it Zabba and shithouse cunt Kolarov. Why the hell did we send them out on loan? Was excited to see Pep give some youngsters the chance, but so far he's done less than Pellers in that department

For me this is the biggest mystery and the biggest disappointment of peps early reign. We've been desperate for new blood at fullback for years. Pellegrini was never going to give our kids a chance but I thought things would change under pep.

Angelino now going to Mallorca. Couldn't get a game at Girona. Possibly not the great full back hope after all

It doesn't matter. He's young, a full back and an academy graduade, and for some people this is all the qualifications needed to be given a chance. Never mind what he can and cannot do.

But we don't know what he can do for us in our first team.

Using United as an example, over the years they've had plenty of defenders who aren't very good on paper - O'Shea, Silvestre, Brown, Evans etc. But they all played plenty of matches in what was mostly a successful United side.

If you have a good system and/or have other good players in the side, then some players who might not necessarily be star players can fill in and do a good enough job when required.

Instead, we have persisted with Zabaleta who has been hopelessly off the pace for 18 months now. Clichy's legs have completely gone this season, whilst Kolarov has never been great at full back.

Angelino and Maffeo may or may not be good enough. But considering how shockingly bad our defence has been this season and how old the players are, it could not have hurt us to give the youngsters some game time.

This isn't just an issue at full back though. It's the same all over the pitch - Tosin at centre back, Garcia in midfield, Iheanacho up front...

Why is that such a sensible, common sense and practical post and why aren't the 'powers that be' at City thinking along the same lines ??

To my mind, it's completely mystifying.

[fangsanalsatan]

I'm sorry but it is impossible Angelino and Maffeo are more of a liability than the far past it Zabba and shithouse cunt Kolarov. Why the hell did we send them out on loan? Was excited to see Pep give some youngsters the chance, but so far he's done less than Pellers in that department

For me this is the biggest mystery and the biggest disappointment of peps early reign. We've been desperate for new blood at fullback for years. Pellegrini was never going to give our kids a chance but I thought things would change under pep.

Angelino now going to Mallorca. Couldn't get a game at Girona. Possibly not the great full back hope after all

It doesn't matter. He's young, a full back and an academy graduade, and for some people this is all the qualifications needed to be given a chance. Never mind what he can and cannot do.

But we don't know what he can do for us in our first team.

Using United as an example, over the years they've had plenty of defenders who aren't very good on paper - O'Shea, Silvestre, Brown, Evans etc. But they all played plenty of matches in what was mostly a successful United side.

If you have a good system and/or have other good players in the side, then some players who might not necessarily be star players can fill in and do a good enough job when required.

Instead, we have persisted with Zabaleta who has been hopelessly off the pace for 18 months now. Clichy's legs have completely gone this season, whilst Kolarov has never been great at full back.

Angelino and Maffeo may or may not be good enough. But considering how shockingly bad our defence has been this season and how old the players are, it could not have hurt us to give the youngsters some game time.

This isn't just an issue at full back though. It's the same all over the pitch - Tosin at centre back, Garcia in midfield, Iheanacho up front...

I think it's unreasonable to lump all those Utd defenders together for the sake of an argument. Silvestre was a seasoned professional who had three seasons in France and Italy (at Inter!) under his belt before he went to Utd. Evans spent three seasons on loan (two in the Premier League) before getting a sniff at Utd, so I would compare him to Denayer rather than the pair that can't hack it in the Segunda División. I'll give you O'Shea and Brown though.

I understand that a lot of people are desperate for Academy players to get a chance, but maybe there is a reason that now three decorated managers have had their reservations about these alleged 'wonderkids'. It's not just our managers, but also the Spanish youth coaches who don't call them up. Maybe they simply failed to take the next step? The jump from under-17 to under-21 football is huge as it is, but the next jump to senior football is absolutely enormous.

They might make it eventually, but if you want to compare defenders, look at Jesús Vallejo's performances in the Bundesliga this season. This is a Madrid player who is Angelino's age, capped multiple times for the U19 and U21, but still collecting experience at a smaller club and performing well, before he can even be considered a squad member in a club on our level (give or take).

I agree that youngsters should get more minutes, but this downtalk of title winning internationals is absurd. If Maffeo and Angelino can't be worse than Zabaleta & Kolarov at this point, maybe we should buy the fullbacks that actually play for Girona. Shouldn't be too hard with Pep's connections.

And including Iheanacho is farcical. He's only 20 and been part of the first team for a while now. He got the chance everybody was crying for, and he took it, but it's up to him now to take it anew in every training session and every appearance from now on.

[mr_nool]

I think it's unreasonable to lump all those Utd defenders together for the sake of an argument. Silvestre was a seasoned professional who had three seasons in France and Italy (at Inter!) under his belt before he went to Utd. Evans spent three seasons on loan (two in the Premier League) before getting a sniff at Utd, so I would compare him to Denayer rather than the pair that can't hack it in the Segunda División. I'll give you O'Shea and Brown though.

I understand that a lot of people are desperate for Academy players to get a chance, but maybe there is a reason that now three decorated managers have had their reservations about these alleged 'wonderkids'. It's not just our managers, but also the Spanish youth coaches who don't call them up. Maybe they simply failed to take the next step? The jump from under-17 to under-21 football is huge as it is, but the next jump to senior football is absolutely enormous.

They might make it eventually, but if you want to compare defenders, look at Jesús Vallejo's performances in the Bundesliga this season. This is a Madrid player who is Angelino's age, capped multiple times for the U19 and U21, but still collecting experience at a smaller club and performing well, before he can even be considered a squad member in a club on our level (give or take).

I agree that youngsters should get more minutes, but this downtalk of title winning internationals is absurd. If Maffeo and Angelino can't be worse than Zabaleta & Kolarov at this point, maybe we should buy the fullbacks that actually play for Girona. Shouldn't be too hard with Pep's connections.

And including Iheanacho is farcical. He's only 20 and been part of the first team for a while now. He got the chance everybody was crying for, and he took it, but it's up to him now to take it anew in every training session and every appearance from now on.

Great post mate. Totally agree.

[Cocacolajojo]

I think it's unreasonable to lump all those Utd defenders together for the sake of an argument. Silvestre was a seasoned professional who had three seasons in France and Italy (at Inter!) under his belt before he went to Utd. Evans spent three seasons on loan (two in the Premier League) before getting a sniff at Utd, so I would compare him to Denayer rather than the pair that can't hack it in the Segunda División. I'll give you O'Shea and Brown though.

I understand that a lot of people are desperate for Academy players to get a chance, but maybe there is a reason that now three decorated managers have had their reservations about these alleged 'wonderkids'. It's not just our managers, but also the Spanish youth coaches who don't call them up. Maybe they simply failed to take the next step? The jump from under-17 to under-21 football is huge as it is, but the next jump to senior football is absolutely enormous.

They might make it eventually, but if you want to compare defenders, look at Jesús Vallejo's performances in the Bundesliga this season. This is a Madrid player who is Angelino's age, capped multiple times for the U19 and U21, but still collecting experience at a smaller club and performing well, before he can even be considered a squad member in a club on our level (give or take).

I agree that youngsters should get more minutes, but this downtalk of title winning internationals is absurd. If Maffeo and Angelino can't be worse than Zabaleta & Kolarov at this point, maybe we should buy the fullbacks that actually play for Girona. Shouldn't be too hard with Pep's connections.

And including Iheanacho is farcical. He's only 20 and been part of the first team for a while now. He got the chance everybody was crying for, and he took it, but it's up to him now to take it anew in every training session and every appearance from now on.

What's going on with Maffeo and Angelino I have no idea but I do know that when Maffeo played vs UNited some people (don't remember who, this is not a veiled dig) pointed out his every mistake. Mistakes taht all the senior players made regularly during Pellegrini's last 1,5 seasons and during the slump in form under Pep. So I do think there's some or even a lot of double standard going on about the eds-players. Don't get me wrong, if they're shit they don't deserve a chance but it's not like our defence has been more or less faultless. And sure, Kolarov's an international but there are plenty of internationals out there who are pretty bad because the nation theyäre playing for isn't that great or because their national team coach likes them,

I think Denis Suarez is a good example of progression. He was talked a lot about by those who go to EDS and Academy games but when he got his few chances he did not show much that hinted at a quality player. Now he's a squad player at Barca. That's good enough. It saves us a Delph, a Fernando or a Sinclar. You can't judge a player after one cup game or one 5 minute cameo, you have to give them experience and play. Of course we shouldn't just play academy plaers for the sake of it but it's just too simple to say that if they're good enough they'll get chances. Suarez didn't get any chances and he turned out very good. NOt a star but quality. That's good enough.

As for the U-level caps I think but I don't know, and if I'm wrong I'd be happy to be proven so, that they don't seem to be a good measure. Sweden had three players of good international quality in the 00s, Fredrik Ljungberg, Henrik Larsson and Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Only one of these, Ljungberg, had been capped a lot at U-levels. Larson and Ibrahimovic thought about quitting football because they didn't seem to have what it took. Although it's a completely different discussion, I'd question the benefit of even having international teams before U-18 or U-19. Nonetheless, I don't think it's a good measure of a player's quality to see if he has caps at U-15 or U-17 level as it says very little. IMO.

I don't think most people expect that our academy should be sprouting with stars but I think most people are frustrated with the conservative approach to the academy players that has been taken, especially when the senior team has been underperforming and when there's been chances to play academy players. Most people don't expect our Academy to procude Messis but squad players and the odd regular player.

[iwasthere2012]

I think it's unreasonable to lump all those Utd defenders together for the sake of an argument. Silvestre was a seasoned professional who had three seasons in France and Italy (at Inter!) under his belt before he went to Utd. Evans spent three seasons on loan (two in the Premier League) before getting a sniff at Utd, so I would compare him to Denayer rather than the pair that can't hack it in the Segunda División. I'll give you O'Shea and Brown though.

I understand that a lot of people are desperate for Academy players to get a chance, but maybe there is a reason that now three decorated managers have had their reservations about these alleged 'wonderkids'. It's not just our managers, but also the Spanish youth coaches who don't call them up. Maybe they simply failed to take the next step? The jump from under-17 to under-21 football is huge as it is, but the next jump to senior football is absolutely enormous.

They might make it eventually, but if you want to compare defenders, look at Jesús Vallejo's performances in the Bundesliga this season. This is a Madrid player who is Angelino's age, capped multiple times for the U19 and U21, but still collecting experience at a smaller club and performing well, before he can even be considered a squad member in a club on our level (give or take).

I agree that youngsters should get more minutes, but this downtalk of title winning internationals is absurd. If Maffeo and Angelino can't be worse than Zabaleta & Kolarov at this point, maybe we should buy the fullbacks that actually play for Girona. Shouldn't be too hard with Pep's connections.

And including Iheanacho is farcical. He's only 20 and been part of the first team for a while now. He got the chance everybody was crying for, and he took it, but it's up to him now to take it anew in every training session and every appearance from now on.

What's going on with Maffeo and Angelino I have no idea but I do know that when Maffeo played vs UNited some people (don't remember who, this is not a veiled dig) pointed out his every mistake. Mistakes taht all the senior players made regularly during Pellegrini's last 1,5 seasons and during the slump in form under Pep. So I do think there's some or even a lot of double standard going on about the eds-players. Don't get me wrong, if they're shit they don't deserve a chance but it's not like our defence has been more or less faultless. And sure, Kolarov's an international but there are plenty of internationals out there who are pretty bad because the nation theyäre playing for isn't that great or because their national team coach likes them,

I think Denis Suarez is a good example of progression. He was talked a lot about by those who go to EDS and Academy games but when he got his few chances he did not show much that hinted at a quality player. Now he's a squad player at Barca. That's good enough. It saves us a Delph, a Fernando or a Sinclar. You can't judge a player after one cup game or one 5 minute cameo, you have to give them experience and play. Of course we shouldn't just play academy plaers for the sake of it but it's just too simple to say that if they're good enough they'll get chances. Suarez didn't get any chances and he turned out very good. NOt a star but quality. That's good enough.

As for the U-level caps I think but I don't know, and if I'm wrong I'd be happy to be proven so, that they don't seem to be a good measure. Sweden had three players of good international quality in the 00s, Fredrik Ljungberg, Henrik Larsson and Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Only one of these, Ljungberg, had been capped a lot at U-levels. Larson and Ibrahimovic thought about quitting football because they didn't seem to have what it took. Although it's a completely different discussion, I'd question the benefit of even having international teams before U-18 or U-19. Nonetheless, I don't think it's a good measure of a player's quality to see if he has caps at U-15 or U-17 level as it says very little. IMO.

I don't think most people expect that our academy should be sprouting with stars but I think most people are frustrated with the conservative approach to the academy players that has been taken, especially when the senior team has been underperforming and when there's been chances to play academy players. Most people don't expect our Academy to procude Messis but squad players and the odd regular player.

Fully agree CCJJ. Our homegrown quota and squad players as you point out, could and should be filled from the academy.
The quality is there.
save our transfer budget for genuine upgrades to the first 11-15 players.

[fangsanalsatan]

I think it's unreasonable to lump all those Utd defenders together for the sake of an argument. Silvestre was a seasoned professional who had three seasons in France and Italy (at Inter!) under his belt before he went to Utd. Evans spent three seasons on loan (two in the Premier League) before getting a sniff at Utd, so I would compare him to Denayer rather than the pair that can't hack it in the Segunda División. I'll give you O'Shea and Brown though.

I understand that a lot of people are desperate for Academy players to get a chance, but maybe there is a reason that now three decorated managers have had their reservations about these alleged 'wonderkids'. It's not just our managers, but also the Spanish youth coaches who don't call them up. Maybe they simply failed to take the next step? The jump from under-17 to under-21 football is huge as it is, but the next jump to senior football is absolutely enormous.

They might make it eventually, but if you want to compare defenders, look at Jesús Vallejo's performances in the Bundesliga this season. This is a Madrid player who is Angelino's age, capped multiple times for the U19 and U21, but still collecting experience at a smaller club and performing well, before he can even be considered a squad member in a club on our level (give or take).

I agree that youngsters should get more minutes, but this downtalk of title winning internationals is absurd. If Maffeo and Angelino can't be worse than Zabaleta & Kolarov at this point, maybe we should buy the fullbacks that actually play for Girona. Shouldn't be too hard with Pep's connections.

And including Iheanacho is farcical. He's only 20 and been part of the first team for a while now. He got the chance everybody was crying for, and he took it, but it's up to him now to take it anew in every training session and every appearance from now on.

What's going on with Maffeo and Angelino I have no idea but I do know that when Maffeo played vs UNited some people (don't remember who, this is not a veiled dig) pointed out his every mistake. Mistakes taht all the senior players made regularly during Pellegrini's last 1,5 seasons and during the slump in form under Pep. So I do think there's some or even a lot of double standard going on about the eds-players. Don't get me wrong, if they're shit they don't deserve a chance but it's not like our defence has been more or less faultless. And sure, Kolarov's an international but there are plenty of internationals out there who are pretty bad because the nation theyäre playing for isn't that great or because their national team coach likes them,

I think Denis Suarez is a good example of progression. He was talked a lot about by those who go to EDS and Academy games but when he got his few chances he did not show much that hinted at a quality player. Now he's a squad player at Barca. That's good enough. It saves us a Delph, a Fernando or a Sinclar. You can't judge a player after one cup game or one 5 minute cameo, you have to give them experience and play. Of course we shouldn't just play academy plaers for the sake of it but it's just too simple to say that if they're good enough they'll get chances. Suarez didn't get any chances and he turned out very good. NOt a star but quality. That's good enough.

As for the U-level caps I think but I don't know, and if I'm wrong I'd be happy to be proven so, that they don't seem to be a good measure. Sweden had three players of good international quality in the 00s, Fredrik Ljungberg, Henrik Larsson and Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Only one of these, Ljungberg, had been capped a lot at U-levels. Larson and Ibrahimovic thought about quitting football because they didn't seem to have what it took. Although it's a completely different discussion, I'd question the benefit of even having international teams before U-18 or U-19. Nonetheless, I don't think it's a good measure of a player's quality to see if he has caps at U-15 or U-17 level as it says very little. IMO.

I don't think most people expect that our academy should be sprouting with stars but I think most people are frustrated with the conservative approach to the academy players that has been taken, especially when the senior team has been underperforming and when there's been chances to play academy players. Most people don't expect our Academy to procude Messis but squad players and the odd regular player.

You make a vaild point regarding youth international caps. On their own, they are not a sufficient benchmark for a kid's likely career trajectory. However, together with all other evidence we have as outsiders, in my view there's a compelling case for these kids not being ready at this time. Youth caps are a way to underline that it's very likely that not only our manager, but also his peers are of the opinion that these kids at this time don't excel as much as some fans may believe.

I agree that Denis Suarez is a great example of a player we should be able to bring through eventually and were it not for his desire to return to Spain, we most likely would have.
I disagree heavily that he is a good example for your case, though. First of all, he has double the amount of U17-21 caps that Maffeo, Angelino, Manu & Aleix Garcia have combined! Further, when he left our academy, he left it for another. There is a major difference in the way reserve teams function between England and Spain, so Barca's B Team is certainly a step up from the EDS. But he still did not make an appearance for the Barca first team before he was loaned out and eventually sold. Yes, sold. With a buy-back option, but sold nonetheless. This is exactly the sort of career path our kids are taking (or at least it is the plan), but a lot of fans still expect them to go straight into the first team just because Kolarov is making mistakes. It's unreasonable.

[Moonchesteri]

I think it's unreasonable to lump all those Utd defenders together for the sake of an argument. Silvestre was a seasoned professional who had three seasons in France and Italy (at Inter!) under his belt before he went to Utd. Evans spent three seasons on loan (two in the Premier League) before getting a sniff at Utd, so I would compare him to Denayer rather than the pair that can't hack it in the Segunda División. I'll give you O'Shea and Brown though.

I understand that a lot of people are desperate for Academy players to get a chance, but maybe there is a reason that now three decorated managers have had their reservations about these alleged 'wonderkids'. It's not just our managers, but also the Spanish youth coaches who don't call them up. Maybe they simply failed to take the next step? The jump from under-17 to under-21 football is huge as it is, but the next jump to senior football is absolutely enormous.

They might make it eventually, but if you want to compare defenders, look at Jesús Vallejo's performances in the Bundesliga this season. This is a Madrid player who is Angelino's age, capped multiple times for the U19 and U21, but still collecting experience at a smaller club and performing well, before he can even be considered a squad member in a club on our level (give or take).

I agree that youngsters should get more minutes, but this downtalk of title winning internationals is absurd. If Maffeo and Angelino can't be worse than Zabaleta & Kolarov at this point, maybe we should buy the fullbacks that actually play for Girona. Shouldn't be too hard with Pep's connections.

And including Iheanacho is farcical. He's only 20 and been part of the first team for a while now. He got the chance everybody was crying for, and he took it, but it's up to him now to take it anew in every training session and every appearance from now on.

Great post mate. Totally agree.

No, not you nooly.

[nottsblue]

I think it's unreasonable to lump all those Utd defenders together for the sake of an argument. Silvestre was a seasoned professional who had three seasons in France and Italy (at Inter!) under his belt before he went to Utd. Evans spent three seasons on loan (two in the Premier League) before getting a sniff at Utd, so I would compare him to Denayer rather than the pair that can't hack it in the Segunda División. I'll give you O'Shea and Brown though.

I understand that a lot of people are desperate for Academy players to get a chance, but maybe there is a reason that now three decorated managers have had their reservations about these alleged 'wonderkids'. It's not just our managers, but also the Spanish youth coaches who don't call them up. Maybe they simply failed to take the next step? The jump from under-17 to under-21 football is huge as it is, but the next jump to senior football is absolutely enormous.

They might make it eventually, but if you want to compare defenders, look at Jesús Vallejo's performances in the Bundesliga this season. This is a Madrid player who is Angelino's age, capped multiple times for the U19 and U21, but still collecting experience at a smaller club and performing well, before he can even be considered a squad member in a club on our level (give or take).

I agree that youngsters should get more minutes, but this downtalk of title winning internationals is absurd. If Maffeo and Angelino can't be worse than Zabaleta & Kolarov at this point, maybe we should buy the fullbacks that actually play for Girona. Shouldn't be too hard with Pep's connections.

And including Iheanacho is farcical. He's only 20 and been part of the first team for a while now. He got the chance everybody was crying for, and he took it, but it's up to him now to take it anew in every training session and every appearance from now on.

What's going on with Maffeo and Angelino I have no idea but I do know that when Maffeo played vs UNited some people (don't remember who, this is not a veiled dig) pointed out his every mistake. Mistakes taht all the senior players made regularly during Pellegrini's last 1,5 seasons and during the slump in form under Pep. So I do think there's some or even a lot of double standard going on about the eds-players. Don't get me wrong, if they're shit they don't deserve a chance but it's not like our defence has been more or less faultless. And sure, Kolarov's an international but there are plenty of internationals out there who are pretty bad because the nation theyäre playing for isn't that great or because their national team coach likes them,

I think Denis Suarez is a good example of progression. He was talked a lot about by those who go to EDS and Academy games but when he got his few chances he did not show much that hinted at a quality player. Now he's a squad player at Barca. That's good enough. It saves us a Delph, a Fernando or a Sinclar. You can't judge a player after one cup game or one 5 minute cameo, you have to give them experience and play. Of course we shouldn't just play academy plaers for the sake of it but it's just too simple to say that if they're good enough they'll get chances. Suarez didn't get any chances and he turned out very good. NOt a star but quality. That's good enough.

As for the U-level caps I think but I don't know, and if I'm wrong I'd be happy to be proven so, that they don't seem to be a good measure. Sweden had three players of good international quality in the 00s, Fredrik Ljungberg, Henrik Larsson and Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Only one of these, Ljungberg, had been capped a lot at U-levels. Larson and Ibrahimovic thought about quitting football because they didn't seem to have what it took. Although it's a completely different discussion, I'd question the benefit of even having international teams before U-18 or U-19. Nonetheless, I don't think it's a good measure of a player's quality to see if he has caps at U-15 or U-17 level as it says very little. IMO.

I don't think most people expect that our academy should be sprouting with stars but I think most people are frustrated with the conservative approach to the academy players that has been taken, especially when the senior team has been underperforming and when there's been chances to play academy players. Most people don't expect our Academy to procude Messis but squad players and the odd regular player.

Fully agree CCJJ. Our homegrown quota and squad players as you point out, could and should be filled from the academy.
The quality is there.
save our transfer budget for genuine upgrades to the first 11-15 players.

Exactly. Mentioned this very same only recently in another thread. If all we get out of the academy are squad players then brilliant. We have saved millions in transfer and agents fees which go towards the bona fide superstars

[Dimples]

When we talk about blooding academy players it not really possible at the moment because we are blooding in our first teamers up front - Jesus, Sane and Sterling - all very young.

However, it is disappointing that we do not seem to have any young defensive players to throw in.
Maybe it is a timing issue. The academy will bear fruit but it is not up and running long enough yet.
I am told the first genuine batch of first team candidates wil be ready in 2019.
No ide if this is accurate or not but there is a pipeline in place.