replacing bravo

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Re: replacing bravo

Postby patrickblue » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:43 am

Not really much of a revolutionary tactic is it? We were winning when teams weren't pressing, now that they are, we are just getting exposed.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:50 am

patrickblue wrote:Not really much of a revolutionary tactic is it? We were winning when teams weren't pressing, now that they are, we are just getting exposed.


No it's quite simple as long as you have players competent enough to do it. Our biggest problem for years has been parked busses, going back to Mancini's day. This tactic pulls them rigid banks of four apart and allows space for our more creative players further upfield.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby iwasthere2012 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:54 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
patrickblue wrote:
zuricity wrote:This is the bullshit eh ? Pep cocks up and gets away with it .

Playing around at the back until we fook up and then hopefully hoof it out !

At least joe saved everybodies time hoofin' it up and saving all that running about in triangles shit.

Pep needs a big kick up the arse for doing what he did to the defense.


The point is with me, if all this messing around at the back, running about in triangles shit is a very good description, actually had any benefit or end product, if it actually gave us any advantage, then I wouldn't mind the experimenting too much.
But I can't see for the life of me what the idea is, and certainly don't see any benefits, we may as well just hoof it to the midfield and cut the defensive arsing around out altogether.


This is not a defence of Bravo.

The idea Patrick is to draw the opposition in in order to create space further up the pitch. A goalkeeper can take out three pressing players by breaking the line with one pass if he's competent enough with the ball.

Hoofing it to the midfield has invariably seen us gift possession back to the opposition for years now, don't get why you'd see that as a preferable option.

I've no problem with the tactic. Having seen it explained using aerial views of the pitch, it really is simple and makes complete sense if everybody, all eleven, know what they are at. All have a role snd a responsibility to make it work.

I don't think we have it perfected but we are definitely much improved.
However I don't think Bravo is the man to take us forward. You need a keeper that the whole team, especially the back four, have total confidence in, because there is no half measures with what they are doing.

You mess up and you look like idiots.

It's not perfect with Willie either but you can see far more confidence from the team as a unit when he is there.

Currently he has a much greater presence than Bravo. This rubs off on the opposition also. If they see a weakness they go at it but if the see a composed commanding figure orchestrating things in the box, they are psychologically less likely to waste their time and end up with a more half-arsed effort on their part.

You need a keeper that commands at least, his six yard area. One that pulls off routine saves. Then, as has been seen with Willie, if they are willing to learn and have the basic football skills, maybe you can build on it and get them working the system.

Whatever the reasons, it's not working with Bravo and personally I think it's down to the fact that his goal keeping skills have been cruelly exposed in the Premiership.
He looks too scared to be s top keeper.

That business of coming out and tackling with his feet instead of diving on it, has been going on since his first match against the Rags, where Rooney tried to get him sent off.
It's poor goal keeping and looks born out of fear to me. Since then every team in the league have smelled blood when he's there.

I would honestly have given Angus the cup games with the view of seeing is he up to the task of taking over as number two next year and number one the year after.
Willie would do fine in the meantime.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby patrickblue » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:01 am

How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:02 am

I'm not keen on getting into another debate on Bravo IWT as I agree he hasn't been good enough.

However I struggle with the idea that he's not brave enough when you take him poleaxing Kompany as an example or diving at the feet of Neymar to keep him out at Barca, they're not the actions of someone with a yellow belly.

I had no issue with him clearing with his feet that time, I thought he read the situation well and dealt with it effectively.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby iwasthere2012 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:48 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:I'm not keen on getting into another debate on Bravo IWT as I agree he hasn't been good enough.

However I struggle with the idea that he's not brave enough when you take him poleaxing Kompany as an example or diving at the feet of Neymar to keep him out at Barca, they're not the actions of someone with a yellow belly.

I had no issue with him clearing with his feet that time, I thought he read the situation well and dealt with it effectively.

I think his confidence has been shook and would definitely have more confidence myself on a keeper that comes and collects that type of one on one as I feel there was plenty of time to do.

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely in Willie's camp at the moment but I'm not on a witch hunt for Bravo.
Personal preference again, but I would prefer a bigger keeper myself. More so than the one on ones, I think he doesn't command his six yard area, let alone the box.
I don't agree with him getting stick from the terraces(what are they?) His own crowd should be behind him no matter what they personally think of his abilities.

But if there is no discernible advantage in playing him ahead of a young Gunn(see what I did there) then I don't see where Pep is going with this.

Listen. In Pep we trust, but when you see the team sheet, who do you hope to see between the sticks, Willie or Claudio.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:55 am

iwasthere2012 wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:I'm not keen on getting into another debate on Bravo IWT as I agree he hasn't been good enough.

However I struggle with the idea that he's not brave enough when you take him poleaxing Kompany as an example or diving at the feet of Neymar to keep him out at Barca, they're not the actions of someone with a yellow belly.

I had no issue with him clearing with his feet that time, I thought he read the situation well and dealt with it effectively.

I think his confidence has been shook and would definitely have more confidence myself on a keeper that comes and collects that type of one on one as I feel there was plenty of time to do.

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely in Willie's camp at the moment but I'm not on a witch hunt for Bravo.
Personal preference again, but I would prefer a bigger keeper myself. More so than the one on ones, I think he doesn't command his six yard area, let alone the box.
I don't agree with him getting stick from the terraces(what are they?) His own crowd should be behind him no matter what they personally think of his abilities.

But if there is no discernible advantage in playing him ahead of a young Gunn(see what I did there) then I don't see where Pep is going with this.

Listen. In Pep we trust, but when you see the team sheet, who do you hope to see between the sticks, Willie or Claudio.


All this is really besides the point now. There's no future for Bravo at the Club. He came in for a fan favourite who was unceremoniously ditched off. He needed to make the position his immeditely. He was the worst keeper I have ever seen for City for six months (not kidding, I've seen Martyn Margetson and co but Bravo has easily been worst ever). Regardless if he is able to regain some form, I didn't like the signing but even I have to admit that he wasn't this bad for Barcelona, people will NEVER trust him. And at 34 there's no future with him either.

It's best for all concerned if he leaves in summer. We paid retarded amount of money for him but it has to be dealt with as a sunk cost.
Sometimes we're good and sometimes we're bad but when we're good, at least we're much better than we used to be and when we are bad we're just as bad as we always used to be, so that's got to be good hasn't it?


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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Slim » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:15 am

patrickblue wrote:How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.


I agree, even when we manage to pass it out of defence and get it headed forward, we are not playing the ball quickly enough into attack and expose these areas. We could argue attempting to do this in the first half is what allows us to have some spectacular 2nd half displays as legs tire, but the heart attack first half isn't enjoyable at all to me and the quicker we see shot of this whole exercise the better. I hope it doesn't require some top shelf team destroying us before Pep can see it.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:31 am

Slim wrote:
patrickblue wrote:How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.


I agree, even when we manage to pass it out of defence and get it headed forward, we are not playing the ball quickly enough into attack and expose these areas. We could argue attempting to do this in the first half is what allows us to have some spectacular 2nd half displays as legs tire, but the heart attack first half isn't enjoyable at all to me and the quicker we see shot of this whole exercise the better. I hope it doesn't require some top shelf team destroying us before Pep can see it.


So what's the alternative? Do we just go back to our keeper kicking the ball over the sideline halway up the pitch ( at least we gain territory ), playing it long and high for our midgets in attack to compete aerially, give the ball back to the opposition half the time our keeper gets it?
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Slim » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:39 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Slim wrote:
patrickblue wrote:How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.


I agree, even when we manage to pass it out of defence and get it headed forward, we are not playing the ball quickly enough into attack and expose these areas. We could argue attempting to do this in the first half is what allows us to have some spectacular 2nd half displays as legs tire, but the heart attack first half isn't enjoyable at all to me and the quicker we see shot of this whole exercise the better. I hope it doesn't require some top shelf team destroying us before Pep can see it.


So what's the alternative? Do we just go back to our keeper kicking the ball over the sideline halway up the pitch ( at least we gain territory ), playing it long and high for our midgets in attack to compete aerially, give the ball back to the opposition half the time our keeper gets it?


Well we could go back to playing the way we were in the first 10 games, when we didn't do this shit and it was only after the 3-3 draw against Celtic that Pep had his revelation about playing this new style.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:41 am

Slim wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Slim wrote:
patrickblue wrote:How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.


I agree, even when we manage to pass it out of defence and get it headed forward, we are not playing the ball quickly enough into attack and expose these areas. We could argue attempting to do this in the first half is what allows us to have some spectacular 2nd half displays as legs tire, but the heart attack first half isn't enjoyable at all to me and the quicker we see shot of this whole exercise the better. I hope it doesn't require some top shelf team destroying us before Pep can see it.


So what's the alternative? Do we just go back to our keeper kicking the ball over the sideline halway up the pitch ( at least we gain territory ), playing it long and high for our midgets in attack to compete aerially, give the ball back to the opposition half the time our keeper gets it?


Well we could go back to playing the way we were in the first 10 games, when we didn't do this shit and it was only after the 3-3 draw against Celtic that Pep had his revelation about playing this new style.


Not sure what you've been watching Slim, we've been playing short from the keeper since day one this season.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:41 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Slim wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Slim wrote:
patrickblue wrote:How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.


I agree, even when we manage to pass it out of defence and get it headed forward, we are not playing the ball quickly enough into attack and expose these areas. We could argue attempting to do this in the first half is what allows us to have some spectacular 2nd half displays as legs tire, but the heart attack first half isn't enjoyable at all to me and the quicker we see shot of this whole exercise the better. I hope it doesn't require some top shelf team destroying us before Pep can see it.


So what's the alternative? Do we just go back to our keeper kicking the ball over the sideline halway up the pitch ( at least we gain territory ), playing it long and high for our midgets in attack to compete aerially, give the ball back to the opposition half the time our keeper gets it?


Well we could go back to playing the way we were in the first 10 games, when we didn't do this shit and it was only after the 3-3 draw against Celtic that Pep had his revelation about playing this new style.


Not sure what you've been watching Slim, we've been playing short from the keeper since day one this season.
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We didn't do little stupid fucking triangle passing at the back as much as we do now.
Pass to the corner flag and then get shat on.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:53 am

Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:56 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


Maybe we should tone it down then as every week it seems to be getting worse.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:58 am

carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


Maybe we should tone it down then as every week it seems to be getting worse.


We have kept 6 clean sheets on the bounce away from home mate, I can't see how it's getting worse.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby iwasthere2012 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:07 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


Maybe we should tone it down then as every week it seems to be getting worse.

We have kept 6 clean sheets on the bounce away from home mate, I can't see how it's getting worse.

We only started getting better when Willie replaced Bravo.
Coincidence?
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:12 pm

iwasthere2012 wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


Maybe we should tone it down then as every week it seems to be getting worse.

We have kept 6 clean sheets on the bounce away from home mate, I can't see how it's getting worse.

We only started getting better when Willie replaced Bravo.
Coincidence?


No, like I've said numerous times, Bravo is clearly struggling and Willy is rightfully our first choice at the moment.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:05 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


Maybe we should tone it down then as every week it seems to be getting worse.


We have kept 6 clean sheets on the bounce away from home mate, I can't see how it's getting worse.


Im on about losing possession or conceding a throw in in a dangerous area due to this fuckign about at the back. I've lost count of the amount of times we have given the opposition a chance to score by losing the ball a few yards from our penalty area or down by the flag.......sometimes the ball needs hoofing upfield and not fucked about with at the back.
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:09 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
iwasthere2012 wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


Maybe we should tone it down then as every week it seems to be getting worse.

We have kept 6 clean sheets on the bounce away from home mate, I can't see how it's getting worse.

We only started getting better when Willie replaced Bravo.
Coincidence?


No, like I've said numerous times, Bravo is clearly struggling and Willy is rightfully our first choice at the moment.


So why is he in the fuckign FA cup first 11 ???? He should be nowhere near the first 11 against anyone in any comp.......he fucked up again against boro......we have zabba to thank.Fuck knows what he will do against the ;likes of Sanchez et al......they will fancy taking a shot from the fucking half way line ffs !
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Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:09 pm

carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


Maybe we should tone it down then as every week it seems to be getting worse.


We have kept 6 clean sheets on the bounce away from home mate, I can't see how it's getting worse.


Im on about losing possession or conceding a throw in in a dangerous area due to this fuckign about at the back. I've lost count of the amount of times we have given the opposition a chance to score by losing the ball a few yards from our penalty area or down by the flag.......sometimes the ball needs hoofing upfield and not fucked about with at the back.


I know you are, I do t agree that it's getting worse though, we are getting better at it for me.
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