replacing bravo

Here is the place to talk about all things city and football!

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Slim » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:35 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


34 seconds in, we pass, get pressed....GO DIRECT.

I know we don't play the same way because I didn't scream at my telly STOP FUCKING ABOUT AT THE BACK as much as I do now.
Image
User avatar
Slim
Colin Bell's Football Brain
 
Posts: 29964
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:57 am
Location: Perth

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:55 am

Slim wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


34 seconds in, we pass, get pressed....GO DIRECT.

I know we don't play the same way because I didn't scream at my telly STOP FUCKING ABOUT AT THE BACK as much as I do now.


No, we pass, get pressed which opens up space further up the field which Kolarov spots and takes advantage off.
Foreverinbluedreams
Joe Hart's 29 Clean Sheets
 
Posts: 5790
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:34 pm
Supporter of: Euthanasia

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Slim » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:30 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Slim wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Yes we did Carl, we probably did more than we're doing now.

https://youtu.be/Mndf_uqrW64


34 seconds in, we pass, get pressed....GO DIRECT.

I know we don't play the same way because I didn't scream at my telly STOP FUCKING ABOUT AT THE BACK as much as I do now.


No, we pass, get pressed which opens up space further up the field which Kolarov spots and takes advantage off.


You say no and then restate what I said.

However, it is exactly what I'd like them to do, or speculate, either way we're not panicking 30 yards from our own goal trying to pass through teams when there are shitty options available.
Image
User avatar
Slim
Colin Bell's Football Brain
 
Posts: 29964
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:57 am
Location: Perth

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:41 am

The term 'go direct' puts me in mind of BFS or Pulis, that's far removed from what Kolarov did there.

Might it be a case of we're improving playing out from the back Slim and that's why you don't see as much panic?
Foreverinbluedreams
Joe Hart's 29 Clean Sheets
 
Posts: 5790
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:34 pm
Supporter of: Euthanasia

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Slim » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:13 am

As a veteran of many FM games, you tend to distinguish between direct passing and long ball.

It's seriously gotten better because the defenders trust Willy and don't trust Bravo. They are quite willing to let Willy have space and Bravo would have conceded against Huddersfield had it not been for Stones and Zabs on the line, showing you how much they trust him.(TBF he did make a couple of decent saves in that game) However goal line clearance from Stones(BTW, fuck off with Stones hate all you cunts on that other thread, he is playing exactly as well as I'd expect a 1st year centrehalf to play in a new system at a new club) and the fumble that was cleared by Zabs show they are right to play almost on top of him.
Image
User avatar
Slim
Colin Bell's Football Brain
 
Posts: 29964
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:57 am
Location: Perth

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Justified logic » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:26 am

Slim wrote:As a veteran of many FM games, you tend to distinguish between direct passing and long ball.

It's seriously gotten better because the defenders trust Willy and don't trust Bravo. They are quite willing to let Willy have space and Bravo would have conceded against Huddersfield had it not been for Stones and Zabs on the line, showing you how much they trust him.(TBF he did make a couple of decent saves in that game) However goal line clearance from Stones(BTW, fuck off with Stones hate all you cunts on that other thread, he is playing exactly as well as I'd expect a 1st year centrehalf to play in a new system at a new club) and the fumble that was cleared by Zabs show they are right to play almost on top of him.

This is the key point for me.

A defender, or two in the case of the Stones clearance, on the line behind Bravo means fewer defenders out there actually doing defence. But maybe this backstop tactic will catch on and other teams will start doing it. :?
Justified logic
De Jong's Tackle
 
Posts: 1445
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:40 pm
Location: Our man in the muddle
Supporter of: Manchester City
My favourite player is: David Silva

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:39 am

Justified logic wrote:
Slim wrote:As a veteran of many FM games, you tend to distinguish between direct passing and long ball.

It's seriously gotten better because the defenders trust Willy and don't trust Bravo. They are quite willing to let Willy have space and Bravo would have conceded against Huddersfield had it not been for Stones and Zabs on the line, showing you how much they trust him.(TBF he did make a couple of decent saves in that game) However goal line clearance from Stones(BTW, fuck off with Stones hate all you cunts on that other thread, he is playing exactly as well as I'd expect a 1st year centrehalf to play in a new system at a new club) and the fumble that was cleared by Zabs show they are right to play almost on top of him.

This is the key point for me.

A defender, or two in the case of the Stones clearance, on the line behind Bravo means fewer defenders out there actually doing defence. But maybe this backstop tactic will catch on and other teams will start doing it. :?


Defenders doing their job, one on the post from a corner and two on the line only because the header from the initial cross was pulled back across the face instead of headed at goal. Nothing to do with playing on top of him, although nice to see the effort to get back and help their keeper rather than hanging him out to dry.
Foreverinbluedreams
Joe Hart's 29 Clean Sheets
 
Posts: 5790
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:34 pm
Supporter of: Euthanasia

Re: replacing bravo

Postby patrickblue » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:16 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Slim wrote:
patrickblue wrote:How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.


I agree, even when we manage to pass it out of defence and get it headed forward, we are not playing the ball quickly enough into attack and expose these areas. We could argue attempting to do this in the first half is what allows us to have some spectacular 2nd half displays as legs tire, but the heart attack first half isn't enjoyable at all to me and the quicker we see shot of this whole exercise the better. I hope it doesn't require some top shelf team destroying us before Pep can see it.


So what's the alternative? Do we just go back to our keeper kicking the ball over the sideline halway up the pitch ( at least we gain territory ), playing it long and high for our midgets in attack to compete aerially, give the ball back to the opposition half the time our keeper gets it?


The alternative is we mix it and stop being so predictable. If playing out from the back is working use it, if it;s not, go longer.
It's not black and white, not a case of either playing out from the back, or leathering it the length of the field, there's an infinite amount of shades of grey.
All this passing around our own box is just Pep's ego, sure it can work, but if that's all you do it just gets predictable, and becomes ineffective, as we saw last night.
We shall not flag or fail.
We shall go on to the end.
We shall never surrender!
patrickblue
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Rosler's Grandad Bombed The Swamp
 
Posts: 3992
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: Newbury Berks
Supporter of: City

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:58 pm

patrickblue wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Slim wrote:
patrickblue wrote:How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.


I agree, even when we manage to pass it out of defence and get it headed forward, we are not playing the ball quickly enough into attack and expose these areas. We could argue attempting to do this in the first half is what allows us to have some spectacular 2nd half displays as legs tire, but the heart attack first half isn't enjoyable at all to me and the quicker we see shot of this whole exercise the better. I hope it doesn't require some top shelf team destroying us before Pep can see it.


So what's the alternative? Do we just go back to our keeper kicking the ball over the sideline halway up the pitch ( at least we gain territory ), playing it long and high for our midgets in attack to compete aerially, give the ball back to the opposition half the time our keeper gets it?


The alternative is we mix it and stop being so predictable. If playing out from the back is working use it, if it;s not, go longer.
It's not black and white, not a case of either playing out from the back, or leathering it the length of the field, there's an infinite amount of shades of grey.
All this passing around our own box is just Pep's ego, sure it can work, but if that's all you do it just gets predictable, and becomes ineffective, as we saw last night.


Completely agree that we need to mix it up more and herein lies the problem, Bravo is capable of that but Caballero not so much, Caballero makes saves but Bravo so far doesn't.
Foreverinbluedreams
Joe Hart's 29 Clean Sheets
 
Posts: 5790
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:34 pm
Supporter of: Euthanasia

Re: replacing bravo

Postby iwasthere2012 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:50 pm

patrickblue wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Slim wrote:
patrickblue wrote:How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.


I agree, even when we manage to pass it out of defence and get it headed forward, we are not playing the ball quickly enough into attack and expose these areas. We could argue attempting to do this in the first half is what allows us to have some spectacular 2nd half displays as legs tire, but the heart attack first half isn't enjoyable at all to me and the quicker we see shot of this whole exercise the better. I hope it doesn't require some top shelf team destroying us before Pep can see it.


So what's the alternative? Do we just go back to our keeper kicking the ball over the sideline halway up the pitch ( at least we gain territory ), playing it long and high for our midgets in attack to compete aerially, give the ball back to the opposition half the time our keeper gets it?


The alternative is we mix it and stop being so predictable. If playing out from the back is working use it, if it;s not, go longer.
It's not black and white, not a case of either playing out from the back, or leathering it the length of the field, there's an infinite amount of shades of grey.
All this passing around our own box is just Pep's ego, sure it can work, but if that's all you do it just gets predictable, and becomes ineffective, as we saw last night.


We've a bit of a dilemma there though.
We pumped quite s few forward last night but I don't recall winning one of them.
The type of midfielder/forwards we employ 9 times out of 10, they don't even contest a long ball forward.
Image
iwasthere2012
David Silva's Silky Skills
 
Posts: 6178
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:14 pm
Location: Dublin
Supporter of: Manchester City
My favourite player is: Pablo Zabaleta

Re: replacing bravo

Postby phips » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:55 am

a Sky article with some stats/graphics comparing Bravo to Willy this season. interesting read:

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/10802908/liverpool-and-man-citys-struggling-goalkeepers-analysed

a surprisng bit:

[Willy] has only conceded a goal every 180 minutes - that's the best rate of any Premier League goalkeeper that has played more than 700 minutes this season.
I'm not really a City fan. I'm just here for attention.

Barclays Premier League 2011-2012 CHAMP1-6NS
Barclays Premier League 2013-2014 CHAMP102NS
phips
Shaun Goater's 103 Goals
 
Posts: 7176
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:04 pm
Location: California
Supporter of: Man City, Dortmund
My favourite player is: David Silva, Marco Reus

Re: replacing bravo

Postby patrickblue » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:44 am

iwasthere2012 wrote:
patrickblue wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Slim wrote:
patrickblue wrote:How is that ever going to be effective against a parked bus. By definition the two lines of four are going to be in their own half and are going to let our defence knock it around to their hearts content.


I agree, even when we manage to pass it out of defence and get it headed forward, we are not playing the ball quickly enough into attack and expose these areas. We could argue attempting to do this in the first half is what allows us to have some spectacular 2nd half displays as legs tire, but the heart attack first half isn't enjoyable at all to me and the quicker we see shot of this whole exercise the better. I hope it doesn't require some top shelf team destroying us before Pep can see it.


So what's the alternative? Do we just go back to our keeper kicking the ball over the sideline halway up the pitch ( at least we gain territory ), playing it long and high for our midgets in attack to compete aerially, give the ball back to the opposition half the time our keeper gets it?


The alternative is we mix it and stop being so predictable. If playing out from the back is working use it, if it;s not, go longer.
It's not black and white, not a case of either playing out from the back, or leathering it the length of the field, there's an infinite amount of shades of grey.
All this passing around our own box is just Pep's ego, sure it can work, but if that's all you do it just gets predictable, and becomes ineffective, as we saw last night.


We've a bit of a dilemma there though.
We pumped quite s few forward last night but I don't recall winning one of them.
The type of midfielder/forwards we employ 9 times out of 10, they don't even contest a long ball forward.


Come off it, we changed second half, stopped the triangles around the defence and went a lot more direct, which made the difference.
We shall not flag or fail.
We shall go on to the end.
We shall never surrender!
patrickblue
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Rosler's Grandad Bombed The Swamp
 
Posts: 3992
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: Newbury Berks
Supporter of: City

Re: replacing bravo

Postby mr_nool » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:56 am

patrickblue wrote:
iwasthere2012 wrote:
We've a bit of a dilemma there though.
We pumped quite s few forward last night but I don't recall winning one of them.
The type of midfielder/forwards we employ 9 times out of 10, they don't even contest a long ball forward.


Come off it, we changed second half, stopped the triangles around the defence and went a lot more direct, which made the difference.


i thought the biggest difference was that they sat back a bit and let us play it out from the back.
User avatar
mr_nool
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Joe Mercer's OBE
 
Posts: 19810
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:48 am
Location: Utrecht

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:31 am

mr_nool wrote:
patrickblue wrote:
iwasthere2012 wrote:
We've a bit of a dilemma there though.
We pumped quite s few forward last night but I don't recall winning one of them.
The type of midfielder/forwards we employ 9 times out of 10, they don't even contest a long ball forward.


Come off it, we changed second half, stopped the triangles around the defence and went a lot more direct, which made the difference.


i thought the biggest difference was that they sat back a bit and let us play it out from the back.


That's exactly what happened, what also happened was KDB dropped deeper to help Fern.
Foreverinbluedreams
Joe Hart's 29 Clean Sheets
 
Posts: 5790
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:34 pm
Supporter of: Euthanasia

Re: replacing bravo

Postby PeterParker » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:08 am

phips wrote:a Sky article with some stats/graphics comparing Bravo to Willy this season. interesting read:

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/10802908/liverpool-and-man-citys-struggling-goalkeepers-analysed

a surprisng bit:

[Willy] has only conceded a goal every 180 minutes - that's the best rate of any Premier League goalkeeper that has played more than 700 minutes this season.



We are unbeaten with him in goal in the league if I am not mistaken.
Image
User avatar
PeterParker
Shaun Goater's 103 Goals
 
Posts: 7564
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:36 pm
Location: Bucharest
Supporter of: The Blue Moon blues
My favourite player is: King Mike

Re: replacing bravo

Postby patrickblue » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:17 am

mr_nool wrote:
patrickblue wrote:
iwasthere2012 wrote:
We've a bit of a dilemma there though.
We pumped quite s few forward last night but I don't recall winning one of them.
The type of midfielder/forwards we employ 9 times out of 10, they don't even contest a long ball forward.


Come off it, we changed second half, stopped the triangles around the defence and went a lot more direct, which made the difference.


i thought the biggest difference was that they sat back a bit and let us play it out from the back.


We mixed it, they sat back because we stopped playing the predictable same old stuff.
It's what I keep saying, it's not one or the other, it's not Pep or Pulis, it's everything in between.
We shall not flag or fail.
We shall go on to the end.
We shall never surrender!
patrickblue
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Rosler's Grandad Bombed The Swamp
 
Posts: 3992
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: Newbury Berks
Supporter of: City

Re: replacing bravo

Postby iwasthere2012 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:59 pm

I think you're misinterpreting what I said Patrick.
What I meant is that we were forced to pump a lot forward in the first half, because we had no other outlet. We won none that I remember.
Second half definitely changed but as others have said I think it had as much to do with a slight adjustment of formation. Kev started to pick the ball up from defense, but I also think they slackened off their press.
Image
iwasthere2012
David Silva's Silky Skills
 
Posts: 6178
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:14 pm
Location: Dublin
Supporter of: Manchester City
My favourite player is: Pablo Zabaleta

Re: replacing bravo

Postby patrickblue » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:54 pm

Fair enough. I did indeed misinterpret what you said, but then anything that was pumped forward in the first half was done in panic mode, so you wouldn't expect the MF to get much. My feeling was that they were determined to to play out come hell or high water despite the fact they had obviously been completely sussed.


This is what Trevor Sinclair said about it, and what I saw

Former Manchester City winger Trevor Sinclair on BBC Radio 5 live: "I thought Kevin de Bruyne, David Silva and Fernandinho didn't take responsibility on the ball. They looked shell-shocked at the start by Monaco. From the first kick of the second half they went long and the gaps appeared. They needed to realise that sooner. In the first leg, Yaya Toure did that. It happened too late here.

"There was a lack of leadership on the pitch and a lack of bravery. Take John Stones out of that, who was excellent tonight. There was too many players who underachieved and didn't take responsibility."

"Looking at the game management, Pep may feel let down by his players. They didn't have the footballing IQ to know they had to play some long balls in, to recognise the scenario of the game. It took Pep to tell them at half-time. That is basic football."

The only bit I'm not sure about is the fact he's blaming the players. That's the way Pep obviously told them to play, and he's the boss.
We shall not flag or fail.
We shall go on to the end.
We shall never surrender!
patrickblue
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Rosler's Grandad Bombed The Swamp
 
Posts: 3992
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: Newbury Berks
Supporter of: City

Re: replacing bravo

Postby PeterParker » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:06 pm

If anyone wondered:

With Bravo in goal in the league:


2-1 vs Filth
4-0 vs Bournemouth
2-1 vs Swansea
0-2 vs Spurs
1-1 vs Everton
1-1 vs Soton
4-0 vs WBA
1-1 vs Boro
2-1 vs Palace
2-1 vs Burnley
1-3 vs Chelsea
2-4 vs Leicester
2-0 vs Watford
2-1 vs Arsenal
3-0 vs Hull
0-1 vs Scouse
2-1 vs Burnley
0-4 vs Everton
2-2 vs Scouse

25 goals conceided in 19 league games. 4 clean sheets - 34 points


With Willy in goal:

2-1 with Sunderland
4-1 with Stoke
3-1 with West Ham United
4-0 vs WHU
2-1 vs Swansea
2-0 vs Bournemouth
2-0 vs Sunderland
0-0 vs Stoke

4 goals conceided in 8 games. 4 clean sheets. - 22 points
Image
User avatar
PeterParker
Shaun Goater's 103 Goals
 
Posts: 7564
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:36 pm
Location: Bucharest
Supporter of: The Blue Moon blues
My favourite player is: King Mike

Re: replacing bravo

Postby Bluedj » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:32 pm

Staggering stats and yet Pep still plays the clown
Bluedj
De Jong's Tackle
 
Posts: 1138
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:38 am
Supporter of: manchester city
My favourite player is: vincent kompany

PreviousNext

Return to The Maine Football forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Dameerto, edge275, Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Sparklehorse, Yahoo Slurp [Bot] and 21 guests