Txiki Out

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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Cocacolajojo » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:58 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:It's a bit like Frank Arnesen. Had a supreme reputation for what he did at Ajax with the kids (I think) but it turns out he failed everywhere he went and was probably just lucky enough to oversee the transition of a talented generation from junior to senior football.

I also think the poor transition of youth players into our squad has to be pinned to Txiki. Like someone else said, were Rodwell and Sinclair really that much better as squad players than what we could have taken from our EDS? I don't think so.


They were signed before Txiki mate.


Yes they were, so I'll take that back but still contend that the lack of transition of players from the EDS to our squad has to be pinned on him. And again, I don't understand your last argument. Am I reading it wrong or what?


Regards the EDS, he can only do so much can't he? I mean he doesn't select which youth players should be part of matchday squads. Again I'm not saying he shouldn't face criticism for his part in this but there's a number of factors beyond his control to consider so it's perhaps unfair to pin it all on him?


He's the sporting director who should oversee the general sporting operations and make sure our sporting objectives are met. One of these has, from the beginning, been to bring through academy players into the squad. It has at least been advertised like that. When three different managers with different philosophies show the same tendency to not use EDS players and instead opt for the likes of Kolarov there seems to be something structurally amiss. I think that falls on Txiki.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:03 am

Cocacolajojo wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:It's a bit like Frank Arnesen. Had a supreme reputation for what he did at Ajax with the kids (I think) but it turns out he failed everywhere he went and was probably just lucky enough to oversee the transition of a talented generation from junior to senior football.

I also think the poor transition of youth players into our squad has to be pinned to Txiki. Like someone else said, were Rodwell and Sinclair really that much better as squad players than what we could have taken from our EDS? I don't think so.


They were signed before Txiki mate.


Yes they were, so I'll take that back but still contend that the lack of transition of players from the EDS to our squad has to be pinned on him. And again, I don't understand your last argument. Am I reading it wrong or what?


Regards the EDS, he can only do so much can't he? I mean he doesn't select which youth players should be part of matchday squads. Again I'm not saying he shouldn't face criticism for his part in this but there's a number of factors beyond his control to consider so it's perhaps unfair to pin it all on him?


He's the sporting director who should oversee the general sporting operations and make sure our sporting objectives are met. One of these has, from the beginning, been to bring through academy players into the squad. It has at least been advertised like that. When three different managers with different philosophies show the same tendency to not use EDS players and instead opt for the likes of Kolarov there seems to be something structurally amiss. I think that falls on Txiki.


How long should it take to produce quality youth that can play at the level we're playing at? Again Mancini failure to bring youth through has nothing to do with Txiki. Pellegrini's failure arguably has and we're yet to see what Guardiola does in this regard, so really it's just one manager under Txiki's watch that has failed to do this.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Cocacolajojo » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:09 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
How long should it take to produce quality youth that can play at the level we're playing at? Again Mancini failure to bring youth through has nothing to do with Txiki. Pellegrini's failure arguably has and we're yet to see what Guardiola does in this regard, so really it's just one manager under Txiki's watch that has failed to do this.


True, I keep bringing in Mancini when he shouldn't be here. Soz about that. But re Pep his stance might change but his record this far has been pap. So I'm gonna say 2 even if you want to wait. And then there's the lethargy that crept into our title defence in 2014-15, then went away, then came back again during the 2015-16 season. Again, he has the oversight and the responsibility.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Mikhail Chigorin » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:00 pm

Socrates wrote:
Hazy2 wrote:We are are factoring in the catch up period I assume. Paying way over the odds to get the us rolling. He has attracted Pep at last, the players coming in will now bee Peps, Vinny for 6 mill Zabba 2.5 Yaya 24 mill 32.5 for the 3. Just adding balance.


The table above is since 2012. We were champions in 2012. He came just after that. No need to pay over the odds when we were champions surely?


I think that's a highly salient point Socs.

For myself, in Txixi's tenure, I find our transfer dealings to have been disappointingly bewildering.

Whomsoever amongst his staff is responsible, in whatever role they played, Txixi is the Director of Football and ultimate culpability has, perforce, to fall upon his shoulders. His overall record would appear to be indifferent at best and, if you were critical enough, it would even suggest a degree of ineptitude.

Surely, on this basis alone, he can't be allowed to continue and forestall our progress any further.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Original Dub » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:07 pm

Well it has to at least be a debate they're having at board level.

Soriano is doing a terrific job in making us the fastest growing football club on the planet and ensuring that FFP part 1 is all but dead to us. But that doesn't mean we've money to throw away in every window.

Overseeing the sales and purchases since his arrival has been Txiki's job.

As far as purchases go, barring De Bruyne and arguably Fernandinho to date, there hasn't been one signing that absolutely improved the first team so far.

That is scary. I don't care how much we pay for players once they improve the first team, but throwing away money on players that can't cut it will undo a lot of Soriano's good work and that can't continue.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Mikhail Chigorin » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:27 pm

Original Dub wrote:Well it has to at least be a debate they're having at board level.

Soriano is doing a terrific job in making us the fastest growing football club on the planet and ensuring that FFP part 1 is all but dead to us. But that doesn't mean we've money to throw away in every window.

Overseeing the sales and purchases since his arrival has been Txiki's job.

As far as purchases go, barring De Bruyne and arguably Fernandinho to date, there hasn't been one signing that absolutely improved the first team so far.

That is scary.[color=#40FF00] I don't care how much we pay for players once they improve the first team, but throwing away money on players that can't cut it will undo a lot of Soriano's good work and that can't continue[/color].


Absolutely spot on OD and, as you also say, at the very least there should be a debate about our transfer dealings, at boardroom level.

Moreover, as someone who was born in Yorkshire and is, therefore, putatively 'tight-fisted', the money we seem to have wasted upon players of indifferent quality and who are, in a number of cases, injury prone, appalls me (even though it's not my own cash at stake).
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:02 pm

Again I'm not supporting Txiki but just for banance's sake, in terms of incomings who would you say has been a major failing on Txiki's part when judging fee paid against contribution made?

Jovetic
Mangala
Bony

Anyone else?
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby South Stand Balti » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:55 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Again I'm not supporting Txiki but just for banance's sake, in terms of incomings who would you say has been a major failing on Txiki's part when judging fee paid against contribution made?

Jovetic
Mangala
Bony

Anyone else?

Bravo, Gundo, Delph. I could go on....and on
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:01 pm

South Stand Balti wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Again I'm not supporting Txiki but just for banance's sake, in terms of incomings who would you say has been a major failing on Txiki's part when judging fee paid against contribution made?

Jovetic
Mangala
Bony

Anyone else?

Bravo, Gundo, Delph. I could go on....and on


Jury out on Bravo, Gundogan could yet prove to be a bargain, Delph fair enough but worth the risk as a squad player given the relatively small fee imo.

Please do go on and on.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Sideshow Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:31 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
South Stand Balti wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Again I'm not supporting Txiki but just for banance's sake, in terms of incomings who would you say has been a major failing on Txiki's part when judging fee paid against contribution made?

Jovetic
Mangala
Bony

Anyone else?

Bravo, Gundo, Delph. I could go on....and on


Jury out on Bravo, Gundogan could yet prove to be a bargain, Delph fair enough but worth the risk as a squad player given the relatively small fee imo.

Please do go on and on.


fernando! jury out on stones/sterling.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:38 pm

Sideshow Bob wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
South Stand Balti wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Again I'm not supporting Txiki but just for banance's sake, in terms of incomings who would you say has been a major failing on Txiki's part when judging fee paid against contribution made?

Jovetic
Mangala
Bony

Anyone else?

Bravo, Gundo, Delph. I could go on....and on


Jury out on Bravo, Gundogan could yet prove to be a bargain, Delph fair enough but worth the risk as a squad player given the relatively small fee imo.

Please do go on and on.


fernando! jury out on stones/sterling.


Fernando, fair fee for a squad player, replacement for Garcia who cost around the same. Not a major fail for me. I'd put Navas in this category too and Nolito.

Yes jury out on the other two, agreed. And the same goes for Sané and Jesus.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Nigels Tackle » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:39 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
South Stand Balti wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Again I'm not supporting Txiki but just for banance's sake, in terms of incomings who would you say has been a major failing on Txiki's part when judging fee paid against contribution made?

Jovetic
Mangala
Bony

Anyone else?

Bravo, Gundo, Delph. I could go on....and on


Jury out on Bravo, Gundogan could yet prove to be a bargain, Delph fair enough but worth the risk as a squad player given the relatively small fee imo.

Please do go on and on.


there's also the signings he hasn't made...

like new fucking fullbacks!
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:47 pm

Who will definitely be purchased this summer NT as 3 of our 4 are out of contract so we'll get shiny new ones ( with hopefully Maffeo and Angelino acting as their deputies when they return ) who will most likely be on much less wages than our current lot... and there's another thing that's not factored in with these critiques, we had by far the largest wage bill in 2012, under Txiki's watch that has been reduced to become a lot more sustainable and we're now the third highest payers in the PL and not only that but both Arsenal and Liverpool's wage bill is a damn sight closer to us than what it was in 2012.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Dameerto » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:31 pm

PeterParker wrote:But how does our squad recruting work? How did it worked under Cook?

Does the manager say what he needs and then Txiki goes out and find players on that position? Or the manager say: I want X. Then Txiki goes after X?

This is a question I was wondering too - some of our players (IE both out current keepers) appear to be manager choices. I'm not saying keep him, just that I don't know enough about our recruitment methods to be 100 percent sure.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby nottsblue » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:43 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Sideshow Bob wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
South Stand Balti wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Again I'm not supporting Txiki but just for banance's sake, in terms of incomings who would you say has been a major failing on Txiki's part when judging fee paid against contribution made?

Jovetic
Mangala
Bony

Anyone else?

Bravo, Gundo, Delph. I could go on....and on


Jury out on Bravo, Gundogan could yet prove to be a bargain, Delph fair enough but worth the risk as a squad player given the relatively small fee imo.

Please do go on and on.


fernando! jury out on stones/sterling.


Fernando, fair fee for a squad player, replacement for Garcia who cost around the same. Not a major fail for me. I'd put Navas in this category too and Nolito.

Yes jury out on the other two, agreed. And the same goes for Sané and Jesus.

Jury very much out on Sterling for me. And I've not seen much of a sane to think at nearly £40m he will be worth it, but he is young and inexperienced so he gets the benefit of doubt for another season at least. But Sterling has been a PL player for four years now, he has to show more consistency for me in his final pass/cross and goalscoring.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Original Dub » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:00 pm

Sterling just has to show more balls.

He has what it takes, certainly to break open defences and cause havoc, but he seems fearful of what might go wrong instead of just going for it.

He definitely has all the tools to rip open defences but he needs to be fearless and not be worried about making mistakes in a split second decision.

Because at the moment, he's making mistakes because he's overthinking most situations imo.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby iwasthere2012 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:03 pm

Original Dub wrote:Sterling just has to show more balls.

He has what it takes, certainly to break open defences and cause havoc, but he seems fearful of what might go wrong instead of just going for it.

He definitely has all the tools to rip open defences but he needs to be fearless and not be worried about making mistakes in a split second decision.

Because at the moment, he's making mistakes because he's overthinking most situations imo.


He needs to learn how to use his left peg.
If he wasn't so predictably right footed he'd be brilliant.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby South Stand Balti » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:12 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
South Stand Balti wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Again I'm not supporting Txiki but just for banance's sake, in terms of incomings who would you say has been a major failing on Txiki's part when judging fee paid against contribution made?

Jovetic
Mangala
Bony

Anyone else?

Bravo, Gundo, Delph. I could go on....and on


Jury out on Bravo, Gundogan could yet prove to be a bargain, Delph fair enough but worth the risk as a squad player given the relatively small fee imo.

Please do go on and on.

I thought the Gundo signing was very ill advised. Signing a player whilst he still had such a bad injury was bonkers. Not much point having medicals if you can sign someone who can't walk. This was compounded by his previous injury record. We have enough sick notes in midfield with Delph and Fern 2. Regardless of the player's talent it was a bad signing as the outcome was inevitable
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby Hazy2 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:57 pm

Gundo was 20 mill because of the risk.
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Re: Txiki Out

Postby nottsblue » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:58 pm

iwasthere2012 wrote:
Original Dub wrote:Sterling just has to show more balls.

He has what it takes, certainly to break open defences and cause havoc, but he seems fearful of what might go wrong instead of just going for it.

He definitely has all the tools to rip open defences but he needs to be fearless and not be worried about making mistakes in a split second decision.

Because at the moment, he's making mistakes because he's overthinking most situations imo.


He needs to learn how to use his left peg.
If he wasn't so predictably right footed he'd be brilliant.

You look at Sterling when he was at the dippers and now and they are two different players. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. The Sterling at the dippers was much more direct. When he received the ball he seemed to just make a bee line for the opposition box, willing to take on defenders and beat them easily. With us he seems more reticent somehow. Sounds daft but maybe he knows there's no point in racing to the opposition box as we rarely have men in there. Kun just doesn't make runs in there any more, maybe it's Catch-22 as he doesn't make the runs because the wingers don't and the wingers font because the forward doesn't!

But for his price just feel he could and should be doing more. Again, like Sane I'll give him more leeway than most due to his age, but at some point in the next eighteen months I'd like to see an upturn in his performances. You look at Sanchez at Arsenal, Suarez at both the dippers and Barca, Reus at Dortmund, Robben and Ribery at Bayern, Griezemann at Atletico as examples of players in similar roles who are more consistent and have arguably delivered better value for money. That's not to say he won't reach higher levels but he's not showing it right now
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