VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby South Stand Balti » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:13 pm

johnny crossan wrote:
nottsblue wrote:Has overturned two decisions in the France v Spain game. One for a goal awarded and one for a goal not being awarded. Correct decisions reached on both occasions

killed the celebrations on the pitch and in the crowd as well - really bad idea. Incey is wincing in the studio apparently - good man.

Without the vid technology that game finishes 1-1 all else being equal. But, the only 2 legit goals were for Spain. It's a no brainier for me, especially against Spurs and the Rags.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Moonchesteri » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:16 pm

johnny crossan wrote:
nottsblue wrote:Has overturned two decisions in the France v Spain game. One for a goal awarded and one for a goal not being awarded. Correct decisions reached on both occasions


killed the celebrations on the pitch and in the crowd as well - really bad idea. Incey is wincing in the studio apparently - good man.


Didn't see what happened in this case but I've seen this ruin so many great moments (including a World Cup final OT winning goal after which celebrations were pretty much like when we score the fifth goal in a 5-0 cup win against non-league team). and this is possibly the biggest reason why I'm still on the fence.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby johnny crossan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:32 pm

Original Dub wrote:Huge step forward. For the fans. Huge step backwards for the money men

Other way round for me, football is for humans - which include officials as well as players and fans. It's the same with late no balls in cricket when the batsman just lingers on the outfield. It works sometimes with hawkeye, rugby and goal line technology but these lengthy off-field interventions are intrusive and change the whole spectacle.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby phips » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:33 am

nottsblue wrote:Has overturned two decisions in the France v Spain game. One for a goal awarded and one for a goal not being awarded. Correct decisions reached on both occasions

how long did it take?
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Dubaimancityfan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:57 am

phips wrote:
nottsblue wrote:Has overturned two decisions in the France v Spain game. One for a goal awarded and one for a goal not being awarded. Correct decisions reached on both occasions

how long did it take?


From BBC
Replays showed Layvin Kurzawa was narrowly offside when he headed the ball to Griezmann, with the decision to overturn the goal made in about 30 seconds.
Deulofeu's goal - from a Jordi Alba cross - was awarded after a conversation between the referee and the video assistant that lasted about a minute.

So no delay at all. I'm all in favour of this.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Original Dub » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:30 am

Perfect.

Most of the time the play has stopped in these big situations.

Give me a slight delay for a real decision any day over a real time robbery.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby johnny crossan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:54 am

Original Dub wrote:Perfect.

Most of the time the play has stopped in these big situations.

Give me a slight delay for a real decision any day over a real time robbery.

Sorry OD- human error, including dishonesty, is part and parcel of the spectators experience. If goals are awarded and then mysteriously chalked off or ruled out and then given - long after the event - the fans instinctive appreciation and passion is compromised.

And they'll still cheat us.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Original Dub » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:00 am

johnny crossan wrote:
Original Dub wrote:Perfect.

Most of the time the play has stopped in these big situations.

Give me a slight delay for a real decision any day over a real time robbery.

Sorry OD- human error, including dishonesty, is part and parcel of the spectators experience. If goals are awarded and then mysteriously chalked off or ruled out and then given - long after the event - the fans instinctive appreciation and passion is compromised.

And they'll still cheat us.


No, I'm sorry mate, I'm not having that at all. I've had that thrown at me for years, that mistakes are part and parcel of the game.
"Isn't that part of the banter on a monday, the controversy..." etc.

The game, like every game, has to have the rules applied to the very best that modern technology will allow.

For the simple fact that it makes it MUCH harder to cheat or be cheated.

We will benefit from this. Others will most certainly not.

This season alone, we would be neck and neck with chelsea. Human error cannot decide league titles. Ever.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby johnny crossan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:12 am

Original Dub wrote:
johnny crossan wrote:
Original Dub wrote:Perfect.

Most of the time the play has stopped in these big situations.

Give me a slight delay for a real decision any day over a real time robbery.

Sorry OD- human error, including dishonesty, is part and parcel of the spectators experience. If goals are awarded and then mysteriously chalked off or ruled out and then given - long after the event - the fans instinctive appreciation and passion is compromised.

And they'll still cheat us.


No, I'm sorry mate, I'm not having that at all. I've had that thrown at me for years, that mistakes are part and parcel of the game.
"Isn't that part of the banter on a monday, the controversy..." etc.

The game, like every game, has to have the rules applied to the very best that modern technology will allow.

For the simple fact that it makes it MUCH harder to cheat or be cheated.

We will benefit from this. Others will most certainly not.

This season alone, we would be neck and neck with chelsea. Human error cannot decide league titles. Ever.
I agree, it's an ancient debate which has accompanied every technological advance. For me the test is the impact on the spectator's enjoyment - if we can't celebrate a goal properly when it's awarded - in case the ref's decision is reversed long after the event - then this 'improvement' fails the test.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Dubciteh » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:16 am

With OD all the way, this is great news.

With so much money involved in the game and so many things on the line, how we end up relying on the eyesight of a middle aged man on a crowded football field with two linesman to call every decision is mind blowing in this day and age.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:22 am

johnny crossan wrote:
Original Dub wrote:
johnny crossan wrote:
Original Dub wrote:Perfect.

Most of the time the play has stopped in these big situations.

Give me a slight delay for a real decision any day over a real time robbery.

Sorry OD- human error, including dishonesty, is part and parcel of the spectators experience. If goals are awarded and then mysteriously chalked off or ruled out and then given - long after the event - the fans instinctive appreciation and passion is compromised.

And they'll still cheat us.


No, I'm sorry mate, I'm not having that at all. I've had that thrown at me for years, that mistakes are part and parcel of the game.
"Isn't that part of the banter on a monday, the controversy..." etc.

The game, like every game, has to have the rules applied to the very best that modern technology will allow.

For the simple fact that it makes it MUCH harder to cheat or be cheated.

We will benefit from this. Others will most certainly not.

This season alone, we would be neck and neck with chelsea. Human error cannot decide league titles. Ever.
I agree, it's an ancient debate which has accompanied every technological advance. For me the test is the impact on the spectator's enjoyment - if we can't celebrate a goal properly when it's awarded - in case the ref's decision is reversed long after the event - then this 'improvement' fails the test.


Both consultations took less than a minute. Goals are often ruled out whilst celebrations are ongoing, granted it's normally within a matter of seconds of the crowd cheering that the realisation dawns but I can't see how it would impact too much on spectator experience if it was a bit longer.

It may add to the experience with crowd piss taking and that.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby johnny crossan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:33 am

I think the key difference from other innovation is that this system is post the referee's decision, the event which traditionally triggers the adrenalin release etc. Some argue that maybe spectators can relearn their celebration responses over time but the problem is that this technology will only ever be available for top flight games, the overwhelming number of games will be unaffected.

It's a cost benefit judgement, the price for more accurate decision-making paid by the prime audience - for me, the paying spectator's experience at the match - is too high in my opinion. I accept for many the main consideration should be the interests of a much wider audience who may have a different watching experience and that better decisions will make for a fairer game. What is for certain is that exploiting the full economic potential of that wider audience is very much in the mind of FIFA, UEFA, SKY etc. What price an advert during the 'Decision Pending' period?
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Nigels Tackle » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:37 am

who decides when the video ref needs to be called in? some of the weaker rugby union refs 'go upstairs' for nearly all try decisions which is fucking painful from a spectator perspective.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:45 am

I get where you're coming from JC, the only thing I have to compare it to from my experience is GAA. They introduced Hawkeye a few years back and it's been a huge success. Granted it's not exactly the same as what's being done here but the reason I believe it could add to spectator experience is what goes on in GAA games when they use the technology, there's massive piss taking in the crowd and banter between both sets of fans whilst the decision is pending.

Oh and it will definitely be sponsored should it be introduced, Specsavers sponsor the GAA's Hawkeye, I know, you couldn't make it up.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby johnny crossan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:48 am

Last edited by johnny crossan on Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby nottsblue » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:01 am

johnny crossan wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/paul-ince-pundit-france-spain-darling-football-about-wrong-decisions-video-a7655031.html

so, let's change the subject :lol:

Ince is a cock. How is he even on TV?
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Moonchesteri » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:09 am

Dubaimancityfan wrote:
phips wrote:
nottsblue wrote:Has overturned two decisions in the France v Spain game. One for a goal awarded and one for a goal not being awarded. Correct decisions reached on both occasions

how long did it take?


From BBC
Replays showed Layvin Kurzawa was narrowly offside when he headed the ball to Griezmann, with the decision to overturn the goal made in about 30 seconds.
Deulofeu's goal - from a Jordi Alba cross - was awarded after a conversation between the referee and the video assistant that lasted about a minute.

So no delay at all. I'm all in favour of this.



Too long for me. Wait until you have a hawkseye technology to offsides as that will give you the signal immediately.

For goals we thankfully already have hawkseye which has proved to work - because it gives the ref the signal IMMEDIATELY.


For penalty shouts and red card incidents - for these this might work as no one celebrates these like goals.
However why do people think this actually makes it a level playing field? Most incidents are debatable anyway
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby johnny crossan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:16 am

Moonchesteri wrote:
Dubaimancityfan wrote:
phips wrote:
nottsblue wrote:Has overturned two decisions in the France v Spain game. One for a goal awarded and one for a goal not being awarded. Correct decisions reached on both occasions

how long did it take?


From BBC
Replays showed Layvin Kurzawa was narrowly offside when he headed the ball to Griezmann, with the decision to overturn the goal made in about 30 seconds.
Deulofeu's goal - from a Jordi Alba cross - was awarded after a conversation between the referee and the video assistant that lasted about a minute.

So no delay at all. I'm all in favour of this.

Too long for me. Wait until you have a hawkseye technology to offsides as that will give you the signal immediately.
For goals we thankfully already have hawkseye which has proved to work - because it gives the ref the signal IMMEDIATELY.
For penalty shouts and red card incidents - for these this might work as no one celebrates these like goals.
However why do people think this actually makes it a level playing field? Most incidents are debatable anyway

For me the heart of the debate should be about how much the flow of the game should be sacrificed in pursuit of 100% accurate decisions. Deliberately increasing the number of interruptions is not desirable - unless your taste is for stop/start style American gridiron - and in any case how far back does the video ref go to overturn a ref's call on the pitch? Aguero's 93.20 goal could have been ruled out in favour of a penalty on Balotelli - or altogether for an incorrectly awarded throw in at the start of the move. After hours of post match analysis on the highlights programmes the pundits often still can't agree what happened anyway.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:20 am

Moonchesteri wrote:
Dubaimancityfan wrote:
phips wrote:
nottsblue wrote:Has overturned two decisions in the France v Spain game. One for a goal awarded and one for a goal not being awarded. Correct decisions reached on both occasions

how long did it take?


From BBC
Replays showed Layvin Kurzawa was narrowly offside when he headed the ball to Griezmann, with the decision to overturn the goal made in about 30 seconds.
Deulofeu's goal - from a Jordi Alba cross - was awarded after a conversation between the referee and the video assistant that lasted about a minute.

So no delay at all. I'm all in favour of this.



Too long for me. Wait until you have a hawkseye technology to offsides as that will give you the signal immediately.

For goals we thankfully already have hawkseye which has proved to work - because it gives the ref the signal IMMEDIATELY.


For penalty shouts and red card incidents - for these this might work as no one celebrates these like goals.
However why do people think this actually makes it a level playing field? Most incidents are debatable anyway



I don't understand why you think it was too long. It was done in the amount of time it normally takes for the scoring team to celebrate and get back in their own half to restart.

Perhaps on the second overruled decision I can see your point because there would be little delay between taking the ball out of the net and taking the free given for offside so in that instance you're getting a longer delay than you normally would.
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Re: VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

Postby iwasthere2012 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:45 am

johnny crossan wrote:
Original Dub wrote:
johnny crossan wrote:
Original Dub wrote:Perfect.

Most of the time the play has stopped in these big situations.

Give me a slight delay for a real decision any day over a real time robbery.

Sorry OD- human error, including dishonesty, is part and parcel of the spectators experience. If goals are awarded and then mysteriously chalked off or ruled out and then given - long after the event - the fans instinctive appreciation and passion is compromised.

And they'll still cheat us.


No, I'm sorry mate, I'm not having that at all. I've had that thrown at me for years, that mistakes are part and parcel of the game.
"Isn't that part of the banter on a monday, the controversy..." etc.

The game, like every game, has to have the rules applied to the very best that modern technology will allow.

For the simple fact that it makes it MUCH harder to cheat or be cheated.

We will benefit from this. Others will most certainly not.

This season alone, we would be neck and neck with chelsea. Human error cannot decide league titles. Ever.
I agree, it's an ancient debate which has accompanied every technological advance. For me the test is the impact on the spectator's enjoyment - if we can't celebrate a goal properly when it's awarded - in case the ref's decision is reversed long after the event - then this 'improvement' fails the test.

The spectators enjoyment is being ruined by a whole host of things, both at the game or watching on tv, not least the amount of incorrect calls being made, whether you believe it to be corruption or incompetence.

Goal line technology works. This will too.
It is needed badly before spectators give up on the game completely.
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