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it wasn't the decision to get rid of hart that backfired. hart has by all accounts been somewhere between shite and mediocre for torino. what backfired was the decision to bring in bravo and continue playing him after it became clear he wasn't good enough.

Sideshow Bob wrote:it wasn't the decision to get rid of hart that backfired. hart has by all accounts been somewhere between shite and mediocre for torino. what backfired was the decision to bring in bravo and continue playing him after it became clear he wasn't good enough.

I suppose the manager hoped he (Bravo) would improve.
There is a noticeable nervousness in the team when he plays and we just have to be in for a keeper in the summer as the No 1 priority.

Keeper to Full back switched to Alves cross goal.

Hazy2 wrote:Keeper to Full back switched to Alves cross goal.

Boom.

So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

Mase wrote:So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

I am saying Keepers like Bravo are architects of attacks catching teams out, that is what we will see when we get Full backs who can contribute, Buffon is an old dog learning new tricks, the goal is vey unJuentus, but an example of what quality players add. I would have Alves BTW top draw, maybe like Maldini he has years in him, all that said its men v boys.

Hazy2 wrote:

Mase wrote:So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

I am saying Keepers like Bravo are architects of attacks catching teams out, that is what we will see when we get Full backs who can contribute, Buffon is an old dog learning new tricks, the goal is vey unJuentus, but an example of what quality players add. I would have Alves BTW top draw, maybe like Maldini he has years in him, all that said its men v boys.

I get your point Hazy but Buffon also makes saves. Very important ones.

I still have faith in what Pep is trying to do and it will take higher grade fullbacks, but it will also take s better keeper than Bravo.
He's too small for starters.

Hazy2 wrote:

Mase wrote:So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

I am saying Keepers like Bravo are architects of attacks catching teams out, that is what we will see when we get Full backs who can contribute, Buffon is an old dog learning new tricks, the goal is vey unJuentus, but an example of what quality players add. I would have Alves BTW top draw, maybe like Maldini he has years in him, all that said its men v boys.

Calm down with the Architect crap.

If needing good fullbacks is necessary don't place the requirement in a discussion about a god awful goalie . Architect my arse , he's just passing the ball out.

Buffon learning new tricks ? come on ... you are getting carried away with this nonsense . Several have pulled you up on it , but you plod on.

zuricity wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:

Mase wrote:So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

I am saying Keepers like Bravo are architects of attacks catching teams out, that is what we will see when we get Full backs who can contribute, Buffon is an old dog learning new tricks, the goal is vey unJuentus, but an example of what quality players add. I would have Alves BTW top draw, maybe like Maldini he has years in him, all that said its men v boys.

Calm down with the Architect crap.

If needing good fullbacks is necessary don't place the requirement in a discussion about a god awful goalie . Architect my arse , he's just passing the ball out.

Buffon learning new tricks ? come on ... you are getting carried away with this nonsense . Several have pulled you up on it , but you plod on.

Are you saying that Pep's whole football philosophy is nonsense?

mr_nool wrote:

zuricity wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:

Mase wrote:So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

I am saying Keepers like Bravo are architects of attacks catching teams out, that is what we will see when we get Full backs who can contribute, Buffon is an old dog learning new tricks, the goal is vey unJuentus, but an example of what quality players add. I would have Alves BTW top draw, maybe like Maldini he has years in him, all that said its men v boys.

Calm down with the Architect crap.

If needing good fullbacks is necessary don't place the requirement in a discussion about a god awful goalie . Architect my arse , he's just passing the ball out.

Buffon learning new tricks ? come on ... you are getting carried away with this nonsense . Several have pulled you up on it , but you plod on.

Are you saying that Pep's whole football philosophy is nonsense?

Ffs ! most teams play the ball out from the back .Pep isn't old enough to have a philosophy . He might have a cunning plan and that's about it.

zuricity wrote:

mr_nool wrote:

zuricity wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:

Mase wrote:So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

I am saying Keepers like Bravo are architects of attacks catching teams out, that is what we will see when we get Full backs who can contribute, Buffon is an old dog learning new tricks, the goal is vey unJuentus, but an example of what quality players add. I would have Alves BTW top draw, maybe like Maldini he has years in him, all that said its men v boys.

Calm down with the Architect crap.

If needing good fullbacks is necessary don't place the requirement in a discussion about a god awful goalie . Architect my arse , he's just passing the ball out.

Buffon learning new tricks ? come on ... you are getting carried away with this nonsense . Several have pulled you up on it , but you plod on.

Are you saying that Pep's whole football philosophy is nonsense?

Ffs ! most teams play the ball out from the back .Pep isn't old enough to have a philosophy . He might have a cunning plan and that's about it.

Calm down ! Pep has been doing this since his debut under Cruyff, I am not saying it's new but it is new to us. Fans in particular have to get used to the keeper being more than a stopper, did Buffon set up the goal, has Alva's set up 3 and scored 1. Just have chat and banter no need to get all hissy about it.

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:

Mase wrote:So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

I am saying Keepers like Bravo are architects of attacks catching teams out, that is what we will see when we get Full backs who can contribute, Buffon is an old dog learning new tricks, the goal is vey unJuentus, but an example of what quality players add. I would have Alves BTW top draw, maybe like Maldini he has years in him, all that said its men v boys.

I get your point Hazy but Buffon also makes saves. Very important ones.

I still have faith in what Pep is trying to do and it will take higher grade fullbacks, but it will also take s better keeper than Bravo.
He's too small for starters.

Some want Txiki gone is that going to happen , not a chance, Is Pep going to give up on Bravo? The lad himself could decide that. Bravo has had a mare nobody Dan deny it, however he has been behind a shambles at times, let's be honest here we take chances his short coming could have been not as obvious with games done, before we fell apart like at Spurs, Everton. He was not in v Monaco and we shipped 6 !

And as we found out, Alves is the player with most assists for Messi at Barca also.

Juve are built on a strong well organized defense though. They are all comfortable on the ball and their midfield also are very well drilled. The whole team look like they know where each other are and should be at any time or situation.
They don't get exposed like we do.

And even though it looked easy enough tonight, Buffon still made a few crucial saves. There is confidence throughout which comes from knowing they are difficult to score against.

Bravo just doesn't inspire confidence.
We'll see how we finish the season but already there is evidence that without Bravo in goal and with Kompany back to organize, we perform better. Even when it was just one or other. Having both scenarios at the same time has us looking much sharper.

If Pep has learnt from this year and we get top three, I'll be happy to chalk it off to experience and let's see if he can get the personnel to make this philosophy work.

zuricity wrote:

mr_nool wrote:

zuricity wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:

Mase wrote:So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

I am saying Keepers like Bravo are architects of attacks catching teams out, that is what we will see when we get Full backs who can contribute, Buffon is an old dog learning new tricks, the goal is vey unJuentus, but an example of what quality players add. I would have Alves BTW top draw, maybe like Maldini he has years in him, all that said its men v boys.

Calm down with the Architect crap.

If needing good fullbacks is necessary don't place the requirement in a discussion about a god awful goalie . Architect my arse , he's just passing the ball out.

Buffon learning new tricks ? come on ... you are getting carried away with this nonsense . Several have pulled you up on it , but you plod on.

Are you saying that Pep's whole football philosophy is nonsense?

Ffs ! most teams play the ball out from the back .Pep isn't old enough to have a philosophy . He might have a cunning plan and that's about it.

Most teams play the ball out from the back when they're under no pressure. Only a few select ones do it under pressure as a way of drawing the opposition out of position to create goal scoring opportunities.

Just look at how the keepers in the other top six teams in the Prem preform under pressure: Lloris is crap at it and hits it straight out of play — the same goes for Courtois. Cech is slightly better, but not really a good "footballing" keeper. I probably would put De Gea in the same bracket. Mongolet is worse than both Lloris and Courtois. Liverpool even brought in Karius because of that, but he — just like Bravo — struggled to adapt to English football and has been benched.

In other words, if Bravo hadn't had the amount of brain farts he's had and if his gloves weren't drenched in soap, he would have been great for us this season. He clearly excels in the footballing department, but his atrocious keeping has rightly kept him out of the team.

I haven't quite written him off, but I never the less buy in to Pep's idea of using the keeper as an attacking instrument and hope we can found the right person for that (or that Bravo can find his confidence and start making important saves again).

iwasthere2012 wrote:And as we found out, Alves is the player with most assists for Messi at Barca also.

Juve are built on a strong well organized defense though. They are all comfortable on the ball and their midfield also are very well drilled. The whole team look like they know where each other are and should be at any time or situation.
They don't get exposed like we do.

And even though it looked easy enough tonight, Buffon still made a few crucial saves. There is confidence throughout which comes from knowing they are difficult to score against.

Bravo just doesn't inspire confidence.
We'll see how we finish the season but already there is evidence that without Bravo in goal and with Kompany back to organize, we perform better. Even when it was just one or other. Having both scenarios at the same time has us looking much sharper.

If Pep has learnt from this year and we get top three, I'll be happy to chalk it off to experience and let's see if he can get the personnel to make this philosophy work.

Buffon is as good as it gets, he makes the job look easy. He has had world class defenders in front of him for years, we have had 1 world class defender available for a month or so. What he now has is full backs who are not Italian mindset. Catch it and they are away. No coincidence Madrid have the same in Marcelo I am off give it and the whole team are happy to see him bomb on as they cover. Bravo is no Buffon. Who is.

please ! stop making this bullshit up ! Under pressure ? because of Peps stupid belief of possession at all costs we see Sane five yards in front of goal NOT shooting because the angle isn't quite right and turning away from goal and we end up back at our goalie !

we put ourselves under presseure not getting and playing the right players along the back four AND in goal , Bravo is OLD and past it .

Football is a simple game and thats the attraction. Pepe is wrong in this respect and if he sticks by his misguided principles then there's a fair chance he'll fail again next year.

The great Malcolm Allison believed in a goalkeeper's potential to start an attack. Both Keith Macrae and Joe Corrigan used full backs to do it.

Hazy2 wrote:

iwasthere2012 wrote:And as we found out, Alves is the player with most assists for Messi at Barca also.

Juve are built on a strong well organized defense though. They are all comfortable on the ball and their midfield also are very well drilled. The whole team look like they know where each other are and should be at any time or situation.
They don't get exposed like we do.

And even though it looked easy enough tonight, Buffon still made a few crucial saves. There is confidence throughout which comes from knowing they are difficult to score against.

Bravo just doesn't inspire confidence.
We'll see how we finish the season but already there is evidence that without Bravo in goal and with Kompany back to organize, we perform better. Even when it was just one or other. Having both scenarios at the same time has us looking much sharper.

If Pep has learnt from this year and we get top three, I'll be happy to chalk it off to experience and let's see if he can get the personnel to make this philosophy work.

Buffon is as good as it gets, he makes the job look easy. He has had world class defenders in front of him for years, we have had 1 world class defender available for a month or so. What he now has is full backs who are not Italian mindset. Catch it and they are away. No coincidence Madrid have the same in Marcelo I am off give it and the whole team are happy to see him bomb on as they cover. Bravo is no Buffon. Who is.

Are you on a wind up mission , Buffon uses grecian 2000! not the future at all

zuricity wrote:please ! stop making this bullshit up ! Under pressure ? because of Peps stupid belief of possession at all costs we see Sane five yards in front of goal NOT shooting because the angle isn't quite right and turning away from goal and we end up back at our goalie !

we put ourselves under presseure not getting and playing the right players along the back four AND in goal , Bravo is OLD and past it .

Sane's finishing is quite unrelated to this issue (and did you not see him shooting several times from a questionable angle against Palace). Who's making bullshit up now? (Crap way of discussing by the way.)

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:

Mase wrote:So you're saying we need to buy Alves?

I am saying Keepers like Bravo are architects of attacks catching teams out, that is what we will see when we get Full backs who can contribute, Buffon is an old dog learning new tricks, the goal is vey unJuentus, but an example of what quality players add. I would have Alves BTW top draw, maybe like Maldini he has years in him, all that said its men v boys.

I get your point Hazy but Buffon also makes saves. Very important ones.

I still have faith in what Pep is trying to do and it will take higher grade fullbacks, but it will also take s better keeper than Bravo.
He's too small for starters.

Nail on the head. That's one fucking huge difference right there