Defenders, Where Are They?

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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:46 pm

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
PrezIke wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:We need at least five new fefenders this summer just to field a team nevermind improve it. There should practically be one defender signing every week from now til the start of the season. Txiki is making mess of this again.


Very few clubs have signed all of the players they need before preseason starts.

It's just not going to happen. However, I think what we do need is a left and right back ready about the start of preseason. That's the highest need because we have no one else who will be ready for preseason. I'd wager that we will have those two in the fold around the start of preseason.

We start July 10, so there are still a few days.

Not sure how you calculate "at least" 5 defenders needed anyway.

I'd say at least 4, and that's the fullbacks. Any CB we sign right now is going to be 4th choice, unless we are selling Otamendi, which could happen, but my sense is Pep wants to start with Vinny and Stones. We still have Tosin who can be the 4th choice CB which suits me fine at this point, although I suspect we prefer to get him game elsewhere.

Mendy and Alves have been widely reported to effectively been "done," so baring a disaster we will have 2 signed up very soon.

Would it be ideal to have all 4 fullbacks by the 10th? Of course, but we can make do with 2 who go through the entire preseason and the backups added later.

This fits into the other two fullback targets we have heard of, Walker and Bertrand, because they are English and also one owner has a reputation for being quite a pain to negotiate with. However, we will be in a better position to negotiate when are less desperate to get them in, which Alves and Mendy allow Txiki more wiggle room.

Alexis can also come later, even if we all want it sooner rather than later, as we do have attacking players that can already play his positions, and will not be a huge downgrade, so we can make do and wait Arsenal out.


We have basically zero fullbacks right now. Ideally we'd have two decent players for both spots but I know that's a pipe dream at this stage so we need rightback, leftback and someone who,canncover both sides. Geriatric Alves will take one spot but he managed about half of Juventus games last season so can't be relied on for full season.

Centerbacks, you need four good ones. We got one, Kompany, and he will not last more than 20 games. Otamendi and Stones are not good enough. In Peps system with fullbacks being basically wingers the centerbacks have to be top quality. They are basically the only defenders on the pitch.

People are ctually paying too much attention on fullback situation without realizing how desperately we need centerbacks as well. So that's five defenders.


We have two new ones, just not announced until Pep gets back off holiday.


Alves and who?
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:52 pm

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
PrezIke wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:We need at least five new fefenders this summer just to field a team nevermind improve it. There should practically be one defender signing every week from now til the start of the season. Txiki is making mess of this again.


Very few clubs have signed all of the players they need before preseason starts.

It's just not going to happen. However, I think what we do need is a left and right back ready about the start of preseason. That's the highest need because we have no one else who will be ready for preseason. I'd wager that we will have those two in the fold around the start of preseason.

We start July 10, so there are still a few days.

Not sure how you calculate "at least" 5 defenders needed anyway.

I'd say at least 4, and that's the fullbacks. Any CB we sign right now is going to be 4th choice, unless we are selling Otamendi, which could happen, but my sense is Pep wants to start with Vinny and Stones. We still have Tosin who can be the 4th choice CB which suits me fine at this point, although I suspect we prefer to get him game elsewhere.

Mendy and Alves have been widely reported to effectively been "done," so baring a disaster we will have 2 signed up very soon.

Would it be ideal to have all 4 fullbacks by the 10th? Of course, but we can make do with 2 who go through the entire preseason and the backups added later.

This fits into the other two fullback targets we have heard of, Walker and Bertrand, because they are English and also one owner has a reputation for being quite a pain to negotiate with. However, we will be in a better position to negotiate when are less desperate to get them in, which Alves and Mendy allow Txiki more wiggle room.

Alexis can also come later, even if we all want it sooner rather than later, as we do have attacking players that can already play his positions, and will not be a huge downgrade, so we can make do and wait Arsenal out.


We have basically zero fullbacks right now. Ideally we'd have two decent players for both spots but I know that's a pipe dream at this stage so we need rightback, leftback and someone who,canncover both sides. Geriatric Alves will take one spot but he managed about half of Juventus games last season so can't be relied on for full season.

Centerbacks, you need four good ones. We got one, Kompany, and he will not last more than 20 games. Otamendi and Stones are not good enough. In Peps system with fullbacks being basically wingers the centerbacks have to be top quality. They are basically the only defenders on the pitch.

People are ctually paying too much attention on fullback situation without realizing how desperately we need centerbacks as well. So that's five defenders.


We have two new ones, just not announced until Pep gets back off holiday.


Alves and who?


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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby PrezIke » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:44 pm

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:We have basically zero fullbacks right now. Ideally we'd have two decent players for both spots but I know that's a pipe dream at this stage so we need rightback, leftback and someone who,canncover both sides. Geriatric Alves will take one spot but he managed about half of Juventus games last season so can't be relied on for full season.

Centerbacks, you need four good ones. We got one, Kompany, and he will not last more than 20 games. Otamendi and Stones are not good enough. In Peps system with fullbacks being basically wingers the centerbacks have to be top quality. They are basically the only defenders on the pitch.

People are ctually paying too much attention on fullback situation without realizing how desperately we need centerbacks as well. So that's five defenders.


On the fullbacks:

Yes, we have zero fullbacks (actually we have 1 with Kola, for now). However, calling Alves "geriatric" is a bit of a reach, no? He started the CL final.

If you review what I wrote, the expectation is not to rely upon Alves as the #1 right back option for the entire season, but for the start of the season. His age then would seem to be less likely of an issue. Yet, he is also considered to be in top physical shape. But let's go with your claim. Even if he isn't that great in the PL we won't need to rely upon him too often for too long. Why? Because surely we are signing another right back this summer (Walker is the target). A Liverpool fan I know actually made a wise comment saying we would use Alves more for CL anyway where he is more suited as there is less physicality allowed.

What makes you think Alves will be the only right back we sign anyway? I suggested that Alves and Mendy will likely be signed before the team goes on their U.S. tour. This would be July 17, I believe, (CityWatch is now reporting this which makes sense since we start preseason training next week). That way they will then be more acclimated to the way Pep wants to play at the start of the season since they will be here for all of, or most of preseason while the other two adapt. Alves also knows Pep very well so adapting should be even less of an issue.

On central defenders:

Okay, so you are in the camp that suggests Vinny will become injured for some time. I can see where you are coming from, yet the only way I can see us being able to sign a defender at the level good enough to start for us means someone else has to go. There seems to be a decent chance we will sign a 4th CB anyway, because I think Tosin will go out on loan.

This is not really a high priority compared to fullbacks. Sorry. We still have 3 CBs. The other two played magnificently alongside Vinny at the end of the season, so it is a risk, but also why we don't need one right away because they are likely going to be 4th choice. My guess is it will be an older experienced player. Thing is, if we sign say a Bonnuci or VVD, Stones' development could very well be hurt. You may not like Stones so much, but Pep does (So do I, and so do a lot of "experts" including Phil Neville), and I don't think he wants him to be 3rd choice, and certainly not 4th. Otamendi is good enough to give Stones competition, but not enough to keep him out of the team like the others I listed could.

Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see what happens, as we were rumoured to be very interested in VVD before Liverpool made their noise, and the reported fee skyrocketed. If we do sign a higher quality CB there seems, again, to be little other choice than to sell Otamendi. His value has never been higher with us, he's approaching 30, and we invested a lot of money in Stones who is a Pep project.
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Peter Doherty (AGAIG) » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:28 pm

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
PrezIke wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:We need at least five new fefenders this summer just to field a team nevermind improve it. There should practically be one defender signing every week from now til the start of the season. Txiki is making mess of this again.


Very few clubs have signed all of the players they need before preseason starts.

It's just not going to happen. However, I think what we do need is a left and right back ready about the start of preseason. That's the highest need because we have no one else who will be ready for preseason. I'd wager that we will have those two in the fold around the start of preseason.

We start July 10, so there are still a few days.

Not sure how you calculate "at least" 5 defenders needed anyway.

I'd say at least 4, and that's the fullbacks. Any CB we sign right now is going to be 4th choice, unless we are selling Otamendi, which could happen, but my sense is Pep wants to start with Vinny and Stones. We still have Tosin who can be the 4th choice CB which suits me fine at this point, although I suspect we prefer to get him game elsewhere.

Mendy and Alves have been widely reported to effectively been "done," so baring a disaster we will have 2 signed up very soon.

Would it be ideal to have all 4 fullbacks by the 10th? Of course, but we can make do with 2 who go through the entire preseason and the backups added later.

This fits into the other two fullback targets we have heard of, Walker and Bertrand, because they are English and also one owner has a reputation for being quite a pain to negotiate with. However, we will be in a better position to negotiate when are less desperate to get them in, which Alves and Mendy allow Txiki more wiggle room.

Alexis can also come later, even if we all want it sooner rather than later, as we do have attacking players that can already play his positions, and will not be a huge downgrade, so we can make do and wait Arsenal out.


We have basically zero fullbacks right now. Ideally we'd have two decent players for both spots but I know that's a pipe dream at this stage so we need rightback, leftback and someone who,canncover both sides. Geriatric Alves will take one spot but he managed about half of Juventus games last season so can't be relied on for full season.

Centerbacks, you need four good ones. We got one, Kompany, and he will not last more than 20 games. Otamendi and Stones are not good enough. In Peps system with fullbacks being basically wingers the centerbacks have to be top quality. They are basically the only defenders on the pitch.

People are ctually paying too much attention on fullback situation without realizing how desperately we need centerbacks as well. So that's five defenders.


We have two new ones, just not announced until Pep gets back off holiday.


Alves and who?

Wasn't told who just that they were on board.
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Mase » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:12 pm

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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby City64 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:49 pm

Mase wrote:Image

Finish residents who live in igloos ?
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Nigels Tackle » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:59 pm

City64 wrote:
Mase wrote:Image

Finish residents who live in igloos ?


irish conspiracy theorists....
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby City64 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:05 pm

Mase wrote:Image

Appeared in Prison Break once upon a time ?
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:38 am

Mase wrote:Image


Let's be havin you!
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:46 am

PrezIke wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:We have basically zero fullbacks right now. Ideally we'd have two decent players for both spots but I know that's a pipe dream at this stage so we need rightback, leftback and someone who,canncover both sides. Geriatric Alves will take one spot but he managed about half of Juventus games last season so can't be relied on for full season.

Centerbacks, you need four good ones. We got one, Kompany, and he will not last more than 20 games. Otamendi and Stones are not good enough. In Peps system with fullbacks being basically wingers the centerbacks have to be top quality. They are basically the only defenders on the pitch.

People are ctually paying too much attention on fullback situation without realizing how desperately we need centerbacks as well. So that's five defenders.


On the fullbacks:

Yes, we have zero fullbacks (actually we have 1 with Kola, for now). However, calling Alves "geriatric" is a bit of a reach, no? He started the CL final.

If you review what I wrote, the expectation is not to rely upon Alves as the #1 right back option for the entire season, but for the start of the season. His age then would seem to be less likely of an issue. Yet, he is also considered to be in top physical shape. But let's go with your claim. Even if he isn't that great in the PL we won't need to rely upon him too often for too long. Why? Because surely we are signing another right back this summer (Walker is the target). A Liverpool fan I know actually made a wise comment saying we would use Alves more for CL anyway where he is more suited as there is less physicality allowed.

What makes you think Alves will be the only right back we sign anyway? I suggested that Alves and Mendy will likely be signed before the team goes on their U.S. tour. This would be July 17, I believe, (CityWatch is now reporting this which makes sense since we start preseason training next week). That way they will then be more acclimated to the way Pep wants to play at the start of the season since they will be here for all of, or most of preseason while the other two adapt. Alves also knows Pep very well so adapting should be even less of an issue.

On central defenders:

Okay, so you are in the camp that suggests Vinny will become injured for some time. I can see where you are coming from, yet the only way I can see us being able to sign a defender at the level good enough to start for us means someone else has to go. There seems to be a decent chance we will sign a 4th CB anyway, because I think Tosin will go out on loan.

This is not really a high priority compared to fullbacks. Sorry. We still have 3 CBs. The other two played magnificently alongside Vinny at the end of the season, so it is a risk, but also why we don't need one right away because they are likely going to be 4th choice. My guess is it will be an older experienced player. Thing is, if we sign say a Bonnuci or VVD, Stones' development could very well be hurt. You may not like Stones so much, but Pep does (So do I, and so do a lot of "experts" including Phil Neville), and I don't think he wants him to be 3rd choice, and certainly not 4th. Otamendi is good enough to give Stones competition, but not enough to keep him out of the team like the others I listed could.

Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see what happens, as we were rumoured to be very interested in VVD before Liverpool made their noise, and the reported fee skyrocketed. If we do sign a higher quality CB there seems, again, to be little other choice than to sell Otamendi. His value has never been higher with us, he's approaching 30, and we invested a lot of money in Stones who is a Pep project.


Alves has had niggling injuries and that's the reason why Juventus let him go. He has also lost lotmof his pace. Mind you, he is still a good player but we can't expect him to carry the torch for 50+ games a year. And Alves signing is something I'm sure is going to happen. All the talk about Mendy and Walker are just that, talk. Monaco are in no need to sell especially as they just cashed in on Bernie Silva.

I think our centerback situation isn't up to standard where we are aiming for but we just have to agree to disgree on that.
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby dazby » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:11 pm

NQDP do you really think we expect 50+ games from Alves?

Surely he is the Vieira, that Chilean dude, Lampard type signing.
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Hazy2 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:59 pm

Cough up the the dough for Virgil. He improves us where needed.
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby bigblue » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:40 pm

dazby wrote:NQDP do you really think we expect 50+ games from Alves?

Surely he is the Vieira, that Chilean dude, Lampard type signing.


Alves is getting up there in age, but a little unfair to compare him to the eternal undead Pellegrini
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Mase » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:39 pm

dazby wrote:NQDP do you really think we expect 50+ games from Alves?

Surely he is the Vieira, that Chilean dude, Lampard type signing.


Pizzaro? What a guy he was. Pinging balls all over the show from deep.
If I remember correctly we were losing to Sunderland towards the end of the season and he came on and changed the game and Kolarov scored the equaliser.
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:37 pm

Well, apparently Alves is going to PSG now. This is why I never believe these "xxxxx xxxxx is guaranteed to join" stories.
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Dubciteh » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:57 pm

Someone needs to pull the finger out....pronto
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby johnny crossan » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:39 pm

OP's on the button tonight - let's hope he's off it tomorrow :)
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby PrezIke » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:58 am

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:Well, apparently Alves is going to PSG now. This is why I never believe these "xxxxx xxxxx is guaranteed to join" stories.


Well played, PSG. We will have to increase our offer, clearly, to land the geriatric.

They're throwing it into the wind and/or hoping to hurt us financially a bit.

PSG have Aurier and Meunier. I guess we're getting Aurier then because they cannot have 3 fullbacks of this quality.
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby Peter Doherty (AGAIG) » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:16 pm

PrezIke wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:Well, apparently Alves is going to PSG now. This is why I never believe these "xxxxx xxxxx is guaranteed to join" stories.


Well played, PSG. We will have to increase our offer, clearly, to land the geriatric.

They're throwing it into the wind and/or hoping to hurt us financially a bit.

PSG have Aurier and Meunier. I guess we're getting Aurier then because they cannot have 3 fullbacks of this quality.

This story originated with Duncan Castles, so can be ignored completely.
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Re: Defenders, Where Are They?

Postby JamieMCFC » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:27 pm

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:Well, apparently Alves is going to PSG now. This is why I never believe these "xxxxx xxxxx is guaranteed to join" stories.


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