What have we learnt from today?

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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby edge275 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:32 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
stevefromdonny wrote:from yesterday it proves that we cannot play from the back all the time, Liverpool with there attacking players caused us to make errors at the back. other teams have pressed us as well but we have got the results against them because they havnt got the players pool have, Bristol city, Burnley Huddersfield which we should with our team be beating easy but they also pressed more then others. sometimes you need to get the ball upfield with 1 pass then 20 passes


Napoli and Spurs have the players, they tried it and failed. We have to stick with it, to go against your principles based on fucking up in one game will only serve to undermine the work that's been done so far and create doubt within the squad.


Agree with this. The players messed up yesterday, not the system. The system has served us really well all season.
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby mr_nool » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:08 am

My "only" worry is that we look knackered. I don't think we would have fallen through like we did last night if this game was played before the Christmas period. I hope we can get those energy levels up quickly or we might struggle in the CL and suffer a few more defeats in the league. To be honest, I'm slightly worried about the return leg in the league cup as well.

Oh well, I'm a notorious pessimist. Hopefully it's just my Angst talking. the most important now is to bounce back quickly. I hope Pep plays our strongest team this weekend, and that we tear Newcastle a new one.
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby FA cup winners 2006 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:49 am

I think what we learned was that

1. Fernandinho's position is critical when playing from the back. He was poor yesterday and was not always available to receive the ball of the defenders. When he did receive the ball, he lost it a lot or seemed to panic and make the wrong decision. It could be that he is mentally tired.

2. With Fernandinho struggling, Gundogan had to drop deeper to also provide an outlet for the defenders and he couldnt move the ball forwards as the game seemed too quick for him (maybe lack of game time). In the first half, the only one supporting Aguero through the middle was KDB. Silva would have made a huge difference in this game.

3. Sergio needs players around him centrally, making runs beyond him. He is being double marked and although going through a frustrating spell, he is still our most capable and intelligent forward player.

4. We are looking tired of late. Players seem to be on their heels a bit more rather than earlier in the season when they were always alert in closing down and wining the 2nd ball. A few times yesterday, we lost out on simple 50-50's which we were mopping up earlier in the season, nothing to do with Liverpool wanting it more, we just seemed that split second slower in getting onto our toes and bursting for the ball.

5. We need another option upfront (to work with Sergio) and the most perfect fit for us would be someone like Sanchez, so i hope that one doesnt come back to bite us on the arse.
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby john@staustell » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:30 am

edge275 wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
stevefromdonny wrote:from yesterday it proves that we cannot play from the back all the time, Liverpool with there attacking players caused us to make errors at the back. other teams have pressed us as well but we have got the results against them because they havnt got the players pool have, Bristol city, Burnley Huddersfield which we should with our team be beating easy but they also pressed more then others. sometimes you need to get the ball upfield with 1 pass then 20 passes


Napoli and Spurs have the players, they tried it and failed. We have to stick with it, to go against your principles based on fucking up in one game will only serve to undermine the work that's been done so far and create doubt within the squad.


Agree with this. The players messed up yesterday, not the system. The system has served us really well all season.


I'm not going to moan after one defeat in 23 or whatever. Couple of things though, as we are debating:

1) Silva is the fetcher and carrier, always available for those defenders to pass to. Don't really understand why he didn't play because he was on the bench so I'm discounting the family situation? Maybe not quite fit enough/had a knock?

2) Without Silva, and with Liverpool known to be absolutely primed to nick the ball off us at the back, and with them being the master exponents of finishing clinically from there - maybe a little change in tactics? We have played it longer at times. I guess you get what you get with Pep and we aren't really in a position to complain up until now!

But I can see why Klopp often beats Pep. So it can't be just OUR players.
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby phips » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:03 pm

The title is heading to Manchester City but Liverpool's 4-3 win over the Premier League leaders reminded everyone that Pep Guardiola’s team are not invincible, writes Adam Bate.

Pep Guardiola will not panic. He was the man who seemed more certain than anyone else that this day would come sooner rather than later. Manchester City will not go through the Premier League season unbeaten but they still finish the week with a 15-point lead. A 4-3 defeat to an in-form Liverpool side at Anfield does not undo all of that good work.

But it was proof that City are beatable. There are weaknesses. Buttons to be pushed. Crystal Palace hinted at it, Bristol City provide a gentle nudge of their own. But it was Liverpool who exposed the flaws that had been masked by the brilliance of Kevin De Bruyne. They were always there lurking below the surface. Guardiola will not want to see them again for a while.

In truth, he may well not. Jurgen Klopp suggested afterwards that this victory could prove "historic" as the only defeat Manchester City suffer this season. In his view, it took a super-human effort from his team. "We played pressing from another planet," he told Sky Sports. "So it looked like they were insecure or whatever but that was all forced by us."

The numbers backed him up. "This is the game where the opposition have won the ball highest," said Gary Neville on commentary. "Manchester City have made more mistakes." City played 33 incomplete passes in their own half against Liverpool on Sunday - 50 per cent more than in any other away game this season. They were put under extreme pressure.

"The plan was to defend as well as we can, chase them down and when we get the chance, attack," Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain told Sky Sports. It was the former Arsenal midfielder who burst through to fire home the game's opening goal but City's fragility was really underlined during a second half in which Liverpool opened up a three-goal lead in quick time.

Klopp's side scored three times in just 10 second-half minutes, during a period of the game in which Manchester City looked to have taken control of the contest. John Stones was outmuscled by Roberto Firmino for Liverpool's second goal, Nicolas Otamendi allowed Sadio Mane to add a third and Ederson's error let Mohamed Salah make it 4-1 to the home side.

All three City players have been praised this season. Ederson has been superb, while Stones and Otamendi appeared to have cut out the errors that had undermined the team's efforts last season. But, according to Opta, in the space of seven minutes, City made as many errors leading to goals as they had in every previous away game of the campaign combined.

It was also the first time this season that City had conceded a second-half goal that put them behind in a Premier League game. The reaction was alarming. "We went from 1-1 to 4-1 and you have to learn from that because in football you can concede one goal but you have to be stable," Guardiola told Sky Sports. "In that moment, we were not solid enough."

On the touchline, he preached calm. Perhaps a fit and focused David Silva might have helped, although Ilkay Gundogan had a good game as his replacement. Maybe Sergio Aguero would have been sharper too had Gabriel Jesus been around to share the burden of leading the Manchester City line during a hectic period for the club in the cup competitions.

But take nothing away from Liverpool. One of the best hopes City have of avoiding this situation arising again is not necessarily to delve into the transfer market but to take comfort in the fixture list. It is Newcastle and West Brom next up in the Premier League. City will only return to Anfield this season if the Champions League draw demands it.

That will be the concern for Guardiola. The possibility that for all of his team's great football this season, there is still the chance that the control he craves - and the cups he craves - can be snatched away by a buoyant side backed by baying fans and playing to a plan. It has done for him in the Champions League before. It has done for him against Klopp before.

"You have to live these situations during a season," said Guardiola. "We know how difficult it is at Anfield and the teams of Jurgen Klopp are so aggressive." Others might be tempted to try. How successful they are is another matter. City are good enough to play through that press more often than not. They remain a great side. But they are no longer invincible.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/11208274/it-is-man-city8217s-title-but-liverpool-show-they-are-not-invincible
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby kinsey » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:22 pm

[quote="johnnyondioline"]...Liverpool is a grim place (as are parts of mcr tbf but not to the feral level that seems imprinted in the scouse psyche) & their team at a lowest common denominator of life level is all they have. But the fuckers know it works & that the hostile atmosphere will influence the .../quote]

I remember reading an article in a fanzine years ago in which someone wrote that there was a popularly held theory that in the 70's and early 80's, the authorities were quite happy to turn a blind eye to the importation of heroin as it was flat that this would have a pacifying effect on the most volatile sections of society. The article in question went on to suggest that some Europeans felt it was no coincidence that at a time when the decline of Merseyside was at It's most marked, both football clubs (but Liverpool particularly) were so successful. They saw the long arm of government at play.

Whilst I always felt that as with most conspiracy theories, it was a little far fetched, I find it easier to believe as I get older. If there was a way to keep the odious bastards quiet, then I suppose it would be a worthwhile approach. Only it wouldn't keep them quiet would it?!
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby Beefymcfc » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:34 pm

CTID Hants wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:That we're knackered after an exhausting period.

Oh, and we miss Dave, and Jesus, and Mendy ....


Dippers fucked off to Dubai for best part of a week whilst we were playing Bristol, might have had some sort of bearing on it Beefy?

And we do miss those three too

Time to move on

Yes mate, moved on prior to the final whistle.

We looked mentally tired, making rudimentary passes that didn't hit our man. You could see early on that our normal play wasn't there, and from being optimistic I was then looking for anything to get upbeat about it.

A week's rest is what's needed, which they now get. Same for us too ;-)
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby sandman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:41 pm

That we can play shite and still score 3 away at Anfield.

We never expected to go a full season without a loss but to see a top 6 side play their very best and we still score three shows how deserving we will be as Champions!!
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby fangsanalsatan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:55 pm

sandman wrote:That we can play shite and still score 3 away at Anfield.

We never expected to go a full season without a loss but to see a top 6 side play their very best and we still score three shows how deserving we will be as Champions!!

Another 5 minutes and we draw that.

While we had a string of shockers in those 10 minutes particularly, they almost threw it away again in familiar fashion and we almost turned it around in familiar fashion, again!
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby ruralblue » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:27 pm

fangsanalsatan wrote:
sandman wrote:That we can play shite and still score 3 away at Anfield.

We never expected to go a full season without a loss but to see a top 6 side play their very best and we still score three shows how deserving we will be as Champions!!

Another 5 minutes and we draw that.

While we had a string of shockers in those 10 minutes particularly, they almost threw it away again in familiar fashion and we almost turned it around in familiar fashion, again!


I had some cunt in the boozer right in my face after their last goal. He wouldn't have it that yhe game was far from over. Twat came and apologised after and admitted had that gone on another five minutes it would have been a share of the spoils or them even losing 4 - 5.
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby Chinners » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:36 pm

ruralblue wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:
sandman wrote:That we can play shite and still score 3 away at Anfield.

We never expected to go a full season without a loss but to see a top 6 side play their very best and we still score three shows how deserving we will be as Champions!!

Another 5 minutes and we draw that.

While we had a string of shockers in those 10 minutes particularly, they almost threw it away again in familiar fashion and we almost turned it around in familiar fashion, again!


I had some cunt in the boozer right in my face after their last goal. He wouldn't have it that yhe game was far from over. Twat came and apologised after and admitted had that gone on another five minutes it would have been a share of the spoils or them even losing 4 - 5.


Fair play that he did the decent thing and came back to apologised . . .
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Re: What have we learnt from today?

Postby Mase » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:37 pm

ruralblue wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:
sandman wrote:That we can play shite and still score 3 away at Anfield.

We never expected to go a full season without a loss but to see a top 6 side play their very best and we still score three shows how deserving we will be as Champions!!

Another 5 minutes and we draw that.

While we had a string of shockers in those 10 minutes particularly, they almost threw it away again in familiar fashion and we almost turned it around in familiar fashion, again!


I had some cunt in the boozer right in my face after their last goal. He wouldn't have it that yhe game was far from over. Twat came and apologised after and admitted had that gone on another five minutes it would have been a share of the spoils or them even losing 4 - 5.


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