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Tokyo Blue wrote:

CTID Hants wrote:VAR causes controversy in Bundesliga tonight as ref blows for half time, players head down the tunnel only to be called back to the pitch and ref awards penalty to Mainz for a hand ball!!!!!!

Mainz v Freiburg: Hosts awarded penalty on VAR after half-time whistle blown - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43791511

Not sure you could make this shit up!!!

There is a lot being done in various places to discredit VAR. I wonder why that might be.

That's exactly how I see it.

There is no reason it can't be an instant call. Like a linesman that calls a foul because the ref is too far away to see it.

Quite simple.

The likes of last night is there to completely take the piss out of it. How long did it take to bring in goal line technology and what was the reason given for taking so many years?

Original Dub wrote:

Tokyo Blue wrote:

CTID Hants wrote:VAR causes controversy in Bundesliga tonight as ref blows for half time, players head down the tunnel only to be called back to the pitch and ref awards penalty to Mainz for a hand ball!!!!!!

Mainz v Freiburg: Hosts awarded penalty on VAR after half-time whistle blown - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43791511

Not sure you could make this shit up!!!

There is a lot being done in various places to discredit VAR. I wonder why that might be.

That's exactly how I see it.

There is no reason it can't be an instant call. Like a linesman that calls a foul because the ref is too far away to see it.

Quite simple.

The likes of last night is there to completely take the piss out of it. How long did it take to bring in goal line technology and what was the reason given for taking so many years?

bollocks. it’s 100% coming. the issue isn’t with the technology, it’s the inexperienced operators and the grey rules that are causing the issues.

Sky sports news running a headline story
"VAR continues to cause problems in football"



How many years of disgraceful decisions have we watched and never once was the headline
"Shocking decisions continue to cause problems"

To be honest last night was bloody ludicrous. How hard can it be to make this work?

john@staustell wrote:To be honest last night was bloody ludicrous. How hard can it be to make this work?

did you think it was a pen?

in fact... pen or no pen?

1. final min real v juve
2. lloris on sterling
3. last night

If they wanted to be serious about VAR they could have looked at the NFL where it works like clockwork, then used whoever is responsible for it and adapted a system for football.
But I don't think they're serious about it at all.

Dameerto wrote:If they wanted to be serious about VAR they could have looked at the NFL where it works like clockwork, then used whoever is responsible for it and adapted a system for football.
But I don't think they're serious about it at all.

One thing I like about the NFL system is that if it's still inconclusive after having watched the footage, the initial call will stand. For all situations that there is any debate among the panelists viewing the incident (penalty or not, etc.) the refs original gut feeling will just have to suffice.

Dameerto wrote:If they wanted to be serious about VAR they could have looked at the NFL where it works like clockwork, then used whoever is responsible for it and adapted a system for football.
But I don't think they're serious about it at all.

american football... that amazingly fast flowing sport that takes 3 hrs to play 60 mins. right.

Nigels Tackle wrote:

john@staustell wrote:To be honest last night was bloody ludicrous. How hard can it be to make this work?

did you think it was a pen?

in fact... pen or no pen?

1. final min real v juve
2. lloris on sterling
3. last night

You're not using examples of 50 50 decisions as an argument for why VAR won't work, are you?

1. Soft, but most likely penalty - you can see an argument for both sides. This will happen.

2. Shouldn't have been a penalty. Outside the box, red card challenge.

3. Haven't seen the challenge, but either way they made a bollox out of it. Why, I don't know, but sky are running the headline that VAR is causing problems in football, so there seems to be a clear agenda.

Anyway, the amount of clear fouls etc are far more frequent than 50 50s. If they are cleared up, we've moved a long way.

We'd have won the league in the derby and there's a strong possibility we'd be in the semi finals of the champions league.

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Dameerto wrote:If they wanted to be serious about VAR they could have looked at the NFL where it works like clockwork, then used whoever is responsible for it and adapted a system for football.
But I don't think they're serious about it at all.

american football... that amazingly fast flowing sport that takes 3 hrs to play 60 mins. right.

What the fuck has that got to do with anything you plank? We're talking about the system, not the sport it's used in. In this case also the trust the players/teams/fans have in the system. Now compare/contrast with the early incarnation of VAR.

Dameerto wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Dameerto wrote:If they wanted to be serious about VAR they could have looked at the NFL where it works like clockwork, then used whoever is responsible for it and adapted a system for football.
But I don't think they're serious about it at all.

american football... that amazingly fast flowing sport that takes 3 hrs to play 60 mins. right.

What the fuck has that got to do with anything you plank? We're talking about the system, not the sport it's used in. In this case also the trust the players/teams/fans have in the system. Now compare/contrast with the early incarnation of VAR.

of course the sport is relevant. american football is a single play sport with a natural break between each one. that gives the officials (on field and behind the scenes) time to review an incident. contrast that with football where the action is constant. look at how quickly our ball boys were getting the ball back in play vs liverpool last week - 30/60 seconds is nothing in the nfl but could be hugely significant in proper football.
i am all for technology in the game but i have no idea how they can create the perfect system in a sport that's so fast moving and with a set of rules that are being horribly exposed as being very grey.....

john@staustell wrote:To be honest last night was bloody ludicrous. How hard can it be to make this work?

Exactly.
Shouldn’t be this difficult you would think.

IMO the powers that be will keep slagging it to fuck
Until they find a way to manipulate it their way

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Dameerto wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Dameerto wrote:If they wanted to be serious about VAR they could have looked at the NFL where it works like clockwork, then used whoever is responsible for it and adapted a system for football.
But I don't think they're serious about it at all.

american football... that amazingly fast flowing sport that takes 3 hrs to play 60 mins. right.

What the fuck has that got to do with anything you plank? We're talking about the system, not the sport it's used in. In this case also the trust the players/teams/fans have in the system. Now compare/contrast with the early incarnation of VAR.

of course the sport is relevant. american football is a single play sport with a natural break between each one. that gives the officials (on field and behind the scenes) time to review an incident. contrast that with football where the action is constant. look at how quickly our ball boys were getting the ball back in play vs liverpool last week - 30/60 seconds is nothing in the nfl but could be hugely significant in proper football.
i am all for technology in the game but i have no idea how they can create the perfect system in a sport that's so fast moving and with a set of rules that are being horribly exposed as being very grey.....

Compare it with Rugby then Nige.
Rugby can go through 30 phases with an advantage being played lasting anything up to a minute or so in the middle of it and when a significant break happens the ref will go to the TMO and ask the relevant questions about anything he had doubts about or anything his fellow officials draw his attention to.
By and large it works. Personally I think it works because the underlying integrity of the officials or the sport are not in question.

This is just a tool to aid them keep it accurate.

Football has a lot of questions about it’s integrity and who is in charge. That for me is the underlying problem.
VAR as a tool can work. The mistrust is who is in charge of it, which is not much different to what we have now.

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Dameerto wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Dameerto wrote:If they wanted to be serious about VAR they could have looked at the NFL where it works like clockwork, then used whoever is responsible for it and adapted a system for football.
But I don't think they're serious about it at all.

american football... that amazingly fast flowing sport that takes 3 hrs to play 60 mins. right.

What the fuck has that got to do with anything you plank? We're talking about the system, not the sport it's used in. In this case also the trust the players/teams/fans have in the system. Now compare/contrast with the early incarnation of VAR.

of course the sport is relevant. american football is a single play sport with a natural break between each one. that gives the officials (on field and behind the scenes) time to review an incident. contrast that with football where the action is constant. look at how quickly our ball boys were getting the ball back in play vs liverpool last week - 30/60 seconds is nothing in the nfl but could be hugely significant in proper football.
i am all for technology in the game but i have no idea how they can create the perfect system in a sport that's so fast moving and with a set of rules that are being horribly exposed as being very grey.....

Stop trying to water down my point - but I'll indulge you anyway: Part of the fundamental trouble with VAR in football is the antiquated view that the authories have of the referee, and one of the differences between the two SYSTEMS is that the 'referee' in American Football isn't treated as the only person who can make a decision - if that was the case in Europe for football then the decisions would be made quicker anyway.

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Dameerto wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Dameerto wrote:If they wanted to be serious about VAR they could have looked at the NFL where it works like clockwork, then used whoever is responsible for it and adapted a system for football.
But I don't think they're serious about it at all.

american football... that amazingly fast flowing sport that takes 3 hrs to play 60 mins. right.

What the fuck has that got to do with anything you plank? We're talking about the system, not the sport it's used in. In this case also the trust the players/teams/fans have in the system. Now compare/contrast with the early incarnation of VAR.

of course the sport is relevant. american football is a single play sport with a natural break between each one. that gives the officials (on field and behind the scenes) time to review an incident. contrast that with football where the action is constant. look at how quickly our ball boys were getting the ball back in play vs liverpool last week - 30/60 seconds is nothing in the nfl but could be hugely significant in proper football.
i am all for technology in the game but i have no idea how they can create the perfect system in a sport that's so fast moving and with a set of rules that are being horribly exposed as being very grey.....

Compare it with Rugby then Nige.
Rugby can go through 30 phases with an advantage being played lasting anything up to a minute or so in the middle of it and when a significant break happens the ref will go to the TMO and ask the relevant questions about anything he had doubts about or anything his fellow officials draw his attention to.
By and large it works. Personally I think it works because the underlying integrity of the officials or the sport are not in question.

This is just a tool to aid them keep it accurate.

Football has a lot of questions about it’s integrity and who is in charge. That for me is the underlying problem.
VAR as a tool can work. The mistrust is who is in charge of it, which is not much different to what we have now.

except when a southern hemisphere or welsh ref is in charge of an england game...
the biggest difference with rugby is that there is a clearly defined advantage rule and also that the laws of the game are far less open to interpretation than football's. also the use of tmo is generally at the ref's request.

Original Dub wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:

john@staustell wrote:To be honest last night was bloody ludicrous. How hard can it be to make this work?

did you think it was a pen?

in fact... pen or no pen?

1. final min real v juve
2. lloris on sterling
3. last night

You're not using examples of 50 50 decisions as an argument for why VAR won't work, are you?

1. Soft, but most likely penalty - you can see an argument for both sides. This will happen.

2. Shouldn't have been a penalty. Outside the box, red card challenge.

3. Haven't seen the challenge, but either way they made a bollox out of it. Why, I don't know, but sky are running the headline that VAR is causing problems in football, so there seems to be a clear agenda.

Anyway, the amount of clear fouls etc are far more frequent than 50 50s. If they are cleared up, we've moved a long way.

We'd have won the league in the derby and there's a strong possibility we'd be in the semi finals of the champions league.

no... i am merely pointing out how difficult is to get the 'right' decision even if technology is involved.
in the main, football's rules are the issue. not the var system. if the rules were black and white, decisions could be communicated within seconds but because there is so much subjectivity involved the var official has to be 100% sure of themselves before contacting the ref.

Nigels Tackle wrote:

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:
of course the sport is relevant. american football is a single play sport with a natural break between each one. that gives the officials (on field and behind the scenes) time to review an incident. contrast that with football where the action is constant. look at how quickly our ball boys were getting the ball back in play vs liverpool last week - 30/60 seconds is nothing in the nfl but could be hugely significant in proper football.
i am all for technology in the game but i have no idea how they can create the perfect system in a sport that's so fast moving and with a set of rules that are being horribly exposed as being very grey.....

Compare it with Rugby then Nige.
Rugby can go through 30 phases with an advantage being played lasting anything up to a minute or so in the middle of it and when a significant break happens the ref will go to the TMO and ask the relevant questions about anything he had doubts about or anything his fellow officials draw his attention to.
By and large it works. Personally I think it works because the underlying integrity of the officials or the sport are not in question.

This is just a tool to aid them keep it accurate.

Football has a lot of questions about it’s integrity and who is in charge. That for me is the underlying problem.
VAR as a tool can work. The mistrust is who is in charge of it, which is not much different to what we have now.

except when a southern hemisphere or welsh ref is in charge of an england game...
the biggest difference with rugby is that there is a clearly defined advantage rule and also that the laws of the game are far less open to interpretation than football's. also the use of tmo is generally at the ref's request.

Sounds very conspiracy theorist to me. Surely not.

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:
of course the sport is relevant. american football is a single play sport with a natural break between each one. that gives the officials (on field and behind the scenes) time to review an incident. contrast that with football where the action is constant. look at how quickly our ball boys were getting the ball back in play vs liverpool last week - 30/60 seconds is nothing in the nfl but could be hugely significant in proper football.
i am all for technology in the game but i have no idea how they can create the perfect system in a sport that's so fast moving and with a set of rules that are being horribly exposed as being very grey.....

Compare it with Rugby then Nige.
Rugby can go through 30 phases with an advantage being played lasting anything up to a minute or so in the middle of it and when a significant break happens the ref will go to the TMO and ask the relevant questions about anything he had doubts about or anything his fellow officials draw his attention to.
By and large it works. Personally I think it works because the underlying integrity of the officials or the sport are not in question.

This is just a tool to aid them keep it accurate.

Football has a lot of questions about it’s integrity and who is in charge. That for me is the underlying problem.
VAR as a tool can work. The mistrust is who is in charge of it, which is not much different to what we have now.

except when a southern hemisphere or welsh ref is in charge of an england game...
the biggest difference with rugby is that there is a clearly defined advantage rule and also that the laws of the game are far less open to interpretation than football's. also the use of tmo is generally at the ref's request.

Sounds very conspiracy theorist to me. Surely not.

far from it mate, I just accept that saffers, kiwis, aussies and the welsh are all cunts

Just read an article on the Beeb about VAR, FIFA looked at 1000 matches where VAR was used, and found less than 5 VAR decisions were being made per match on average, with an average time loss per game of just under 90 seconds. Hardly wrist-slashingly slow for those mired in inertia to change.
(It also quotes Infantino - the current FIFA head wanker - saying an average of 7 minutes is lost per game to throw-ins for comparison)