Jorginho - Move On Nothing To See Here

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Re: Jorginho

Postby PrezIke » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:24 pm

Nigels Tackle wrote:
johnny crossan wrote:

back to the brink?


i always take journalists with less than 1000 followers seriously


Well, other sites, i.e. CityWatch re-tweeting this and suggesting it's legit aka he's about to sign/be announced in the coming days now that the issue is "resolved."
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Re: Jorginho

Postby johnny crossan » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:49 am

Jorginho just right for Man City
Jorginho might not be suited to most Premier League sides, but he'll fit right in at Pep Guardiola's Manchester City, insists Tom Scholes.
https://www.football-italia.net/123619/ ... t-man-city
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Re: Jorginho

Postby PrezIke » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:51 pm

johnny crossan wrote:Jorginho just right for Man City
Jorginho might not be suited to most Premier League sides, but he'll fit right in at Pep Guardiola's Manchester City, insists Tom Scholes.
https://www.football-italia.net/123619/ ... t-man-city


Similarly, he's a link to my post in the Mahrez thread defending reasons to be excited about Jorginho.

I added some bits showing why he's a good fit that partially stemmed from a recent scouting report from Bleacher Report that said he would be "perfect for" us:

http://www.mancityfans.net/mcfnet/viewtopic.php?f=119&t=53522&p=915975#p915975
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Re: Jorginho

Postby Sideshow Bob » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:33 pm

PrezIke wrote:
johnny crossan wrote:Jorginho just right for Man City
Jorginho might not be suited to most Premier League sides, but he'll fit right in at Pep Guardiola's Manchester City, insists Tom Scholes.
https://www.football-italia.net/123619/ ... t-man-city


Similarly, he's a link to my post in the Mahrez thread defending reasons to be excited about Jorginho.

I added some bits showing why he's a good fit that partially stemmed from a recent scouting report from Bleacher Report that said he would be "perfect for" us:

http://www.mancityfans.net/mcfnet/viewtopic.php?f=119&t=53522&p=915975#p915975


see, reading stuff like this makes me worry. it says his passing stats are as good/better than fern1's. however, what they fail to mention is that fern1 also tracks back and provides cover for our sometimes sh1t back 4. can jorginho handle that bit, too??
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Re: Jorginho

Postby PrezIke » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:51 pm

Sideshow Bob wrote:
PrezIke wrote:
johnny crossan wrote:Jorginho just right for Man City
Jorginho might not be suited to most Premier League sides, but he'll fit right in at Pep Guardiola's Manchester City, insists Tom Scholes.
https://www.football-italia.net/123619/ ... t-man-city


Similarly, he's a link to my post in the Mahrez thread defending reasons to be excited about Jorginho.

I added some bits showing why he's a good fit that partially stemmed from a recent scouting report from Bleacher Report that said he would be "perfect for" us:

http://www.mancityfans.net/mcfnet/viewtopic.php?f=119&t=53522&p=915975#p915975


see, reading stuff like this makes me worry. it says his passing stats are as good/better than fern1's. however, what they fail to mention is that fern1 also tracks back and provides cover for our sometimes sh1t back 4. can jorginho handle that bit, too??


As far as I understand his strength is not as a box to box type of midfielder but deep lying playmaker...aka positioning. Here's an in depth scouting report from March on him:

https://www.esdfanalysis.com/player-analysis/jorginho/

They refer to that in the part discussing his defending:

Jorginho helps his team in those situations with his solid understanding of the game and his good defensive positioning/reading the game. Quite often he is able to intercept by simply closing passing lines for the opponent...

Jorginho reads the intention of the opponents passes quite well and therefore can intercept the pass easily. Especially in the situation in which he has lost the ball, Jorginho shows his understanding of the situation by often moving forward to press instead of moving back in position. Because of his immediate forward pressing, he reduces the available space for the opponent and forces him to make decisions quickly.


Some of that sounds exactly like the rest of our players who win the ball back swiftly. Being fair, the report does point to deficiencies defending "bigger spaces" as he is not that pacey of a player.

Fern is obviously good at positioning and "tracking back" as a CDM but ideally under Pep that's not going to be required as much when with Jorginho we could possibly improve on already having the ball 60-80% of the time. He is good at some aspects of defending, and will be surrounded by other hard working and intelligent players. Against Liverpool and pressing teams at higher levels this quote below indirectly makes the point as to why the "tracking back" concern may be less key than one suspects:

In the Champions League and Europa League, he has shown that he doesn’t need that much space to operate because he is very good under pressure like all of Napoli’s players.


Isn't losing the ball pretty much the primary reason we nearly ever have to "track back?" It was against Liverpool and we had games we lost or drew last season where we had huge amounts more possession, but gave away goals on the counter from the high press and fast attackers. Instead of chasing them with fast players, couldn't you argue keeping the ball better would be more effective? Again, I saw that as exactly why Liverpool continue to defeat us.

Everywhere else we have players who fit that mould, working hard to win the ball back after losing it, but then when a player like Fernandinho - as good as he is - has to make a swift decision with the ball under pressure he has given the ball back more than say even someone like Yaya.

Seems Jorginho is good at cutting off passing lanes so that's his value as a CDM. I trust Pep knows what he is doing at this point, and can see very good reason from the points I'm trying to make as to how it would work compared to a hard working ball winning midfielder in the De Jong/Fernandinho (better technically, of course) mould.

I guess my larger point is, remember how many of our fans hated the idea of key Pep ideas during and after season 1?

- Sweeper Keeper (replacing Joe)
- Playing out from the back
- Ball playing defenders (Playing Kola as a centre half)
- Roaming 8s (Silva and KDB no longer attackin/wide mids, now "roaming 8s")
- Dropping Kun (wanting his forwards to be involved in buildup and winning the ball back)

When he added more players that he wanted to address those concerns we not only improved, we became a nearly unstoppable force across the league. I think we can get a bit stuck in how we are accustomed to "what works" on a football pitch, but Pep is trying completely different things that those solutions from the past won't help enough address current problems.

Also, to be fair, we may have wanted Fred, but because that changed, and Pep already liked Jorginho he became the best pick of the lot given what is available.

I'd ask, who would you like to see instead? We aren't getting Kante, so forget him. He also is not going to help with any long passing Pep likes from deep. Hard to think who would be a Fern clone, but ideally is better with the ball, that we could actually sign. Who is this player?
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Re: Jorginho

Postby Beefymcfc » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:55 pm

That would then release the Ginger Prince.
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Re: Jorginho

Postby Sideshow Bob » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:55 pm

good post, prezlke. i hope he pans out. i don't know of any better (young) players offhand who are currently available, but i'm no scout.
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Re: Jorginho

Postby phips » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:15 am

maybe he'll be the eventual replacement for what Silva has become under Pep. he's no longer a real number 10. both him and KDB operated as no. 8s last yr.
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Re: Jorginho

Postby johnny crossan » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:44 pm

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Re: Jorginho

Postby Beefymcfc » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:57 pm

johnny crossan wrote:

No change then ;-)
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Re: Jorginho

Postby johnny crossan » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:21 pm

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Re: Jorginho

Postby CTID Hants » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:50 pm

Hmmm, it's very quiet down at
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Re: Jorginho

Postby South Stand Balti » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:09 am

CTID Hants wrote:Hmmm, it's very quiet down at
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Do they have one of these in Chelsea
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Re: Jorginho

Postby Dubciteh » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:46 am

Talk about drawn out. Not like us to not have our businews done by now.
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Re: Jorginho

Postby johnny crossan » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:27 pm

Dubciteh wrote:Talk about drawn out. Not like us to not have our businews done by now.

the Chavs step in
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Re: Jorginho

Postby Mase » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:16 pm

johnny crossan wrote:
Dubciteh wrote:Talk about drawn out. Not like us to not have our businews done by now.

the Chavs step in


Let Chelsea have him. Sick of dealing with Italian twats. There's better out there.
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Re: Jorginho

Postby Sideshow Bob » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:15 pm

one thing is certain after watching brazil these past few weeks: we need competition for fern1 pronto. his legs are going...maybe gone.
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Re: Jorginho

Postby Mase » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:17 pm

Sideshow Bob wrote:one thing is certain after watching brazil these past few weeks: we need competition for fern1 pronto. his legs are going...maybe gone.


Wasn't he one of our best players last season? And how many games did he start for Brazil in the world cup?
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Re: Jorginho

Postby zuricity » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:27 pm

Mase wrote:
Sideshow Bob wrote:one thing is certain after watching brazil these past few weeks: we need competition for fern1 pronto. his legs are going...maybe gone.


Wasn't he one of our best players last season? And how many games did he start for Brazil in the world cup?


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Re: Jorginho

Postby Mase » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:38 pm

zuricity wrote:
Mase wrote:
Sideshow Bob wrote:one thing is certain after watching brazil these past few weeks: we need competition for fern1 pronto. his legs are going...maybe gone.


Wasn't he one of our best players last season? And how many games did he start for Brazil in the world cup?


As Robert Plant sang Mase .... or as Rolf Harris sang „Ooooh , it makes me wonder“.


I find it mad that a few of our fans are making claims about some of our players based on the world cup. Fuck me if it was up to some we'd be making bids for Pickford, Lingard, Maguire, that curly haired fuck Mexico keeper as back up for Pickford, some shit Russian that's really Brazilian, the Serbian left-back, and Lukaku!!
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