World Cup | VAR

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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:47 am

Wonderwall wrote:
dazby wrote:
RodneyRodney wrote:
dazby wrote:His hand was in an unnatural position preventing a shot on goal. Pen.

Sorry Daz, but absolute cobblers . Danes well ripped of with that decision , which was on par with some of the most bent anti-City
penalty calls I've seen last 4-5 years.


Same question to you Rodders. How were they ripped off? His had was in an unnatural position, stopping a shot on goal. Pen.


Wasn't a deliberate hand ball, was ball to hand, he couldn't have got out of the way and was using the arms as leverage to jump like everyone does. Never a pen.


I think, just like the pen France got against Australia, this one is open to debate.

I get the leverage argument but still that arm was very high, not conclusive whether that was natural or deliberate imo.

It's evened itself out though, France got the benefit of the doubt in their first game and Oz got the benefit of the doubt on this one.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby nottsblue » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:54 am

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Wonderwall wrote:
dazby wrote:
RodneyRodney wrote:
dazby wrote:His hand was in an unnatural position preventing a shot on goal. Pen.

Sorry Daz, but absolute cobblers . Danes well ripped of with that decision , which was on par with some of the most bent anti-City
penalty calls I've seen last 4-5 years.


Same question to you Rodders. How were they ripped off? His had was in an unnatural position, stopping a shot on goal. Pen.


Wasn't a deliberate hand ball, was ball to hand, he couldn't have got out of the way and was using the arms as leverage to jump like everyone does. Never a pen.


I think, just like the pen France got against Australia, this one is open to debate.

I get the leverage argument but still that arm was very high, not conclusive whether that was natural or deliberate imo.

It's evened itself out though, France got the benefit of the doubt in their first game and Oz got the benefit of the doubt on this one.

But surely the point of VAR is to right obvious wrong decisions. Not to give benefit of doubt
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:59 am

nottsblue wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
I think, just like the pen France got against Australia, this one is open to debate.

I get the leverage argument but still that arm was very high, not conclusive whether that was natural or deliberate imo.

It's evened itself out though, France got the benefit of the doubt in their first game and Oz got the benefit of the doubt on this one.

But surely the point of VAR is to right obvious wrong decisions. Not to give benefit of doubt


Yep problem being in this instance there was nothing obvious so probably shouldn't have even gone to VAR.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby Crossie » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:13 pm

I think everyone would hope that it creates fair results, so games are fair. I know it’s notnused for every single thing that happens either but the officials in Moscow must have guns pointed at their heads because they are making strange decisions.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby dazby » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:04 pm

I loved the twist on the Neymar pen decision but was shocked he wasn't booked for diving.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby BookJunior » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:34 pm

sheblue wrote:VAR is a good idea bit it's still a work in progress. I suppose if it becomes more commonplace then it will get better.


My viewpoint as well.

Having said that it gets harder to avoid the impression that football isn't biased towards some countries and clubs.

The media shout their allegiance from the rooftops.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby Nigels Tackle » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:36 pm

BookJunior wrote:
sheblue wrote:VAR is a good idea bit it's still a work in progress. I suppose if it becomes more commonplace then it will get better.


My viewpoint as well.

Having said that it gets harder to avoid the impression that football isn't biased towards some countries and clubs.
The media shout their allegiance from the rooftops.


considering what happened only 45 mins ago, this makes very little sense
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby Scatman » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:01 pm

Nigels Tackle wrote:
BookJunior wrote:
sheblue wrote:VAR is a good idea bit it's still a work in progress. I suppose if it becomes more commonplace then it will get better.


My viewpoint as well.

Having said that it gets harder to avoid the impression that football isn't biased towards some countries and clubs.
The media shout their allegiance from the rooftops.


considering what happened only 45 mins ago, this makes very little sense
.

I was thinking that as it happened. But we need a conspiracy theory.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:10 pm

Crossie wrote:I think everyone would hope that it creates fair results, so games are fair. I know it’s notnused for every single thing that happens either but the officials in Moscow must have guns pointed at their heads because they are making strange decisions.


The strange decisions are because they're not even watching the games

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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby nottsblue » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:30 pm

A quite staggering decision not to award a penalty to Serbia. Two defenders wrestled Mitrovic to the ground. A more blatant, stonewall penalty you could not wish to see.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby mr_nool » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:32 pm

nottsblue wrote:A quite staggering decision not to award a penalty to Serbia. Two defenders wrestled Mitrovic to the ground. A more blatant, stonewall penalty you could not wish to see.


Just said the same in the other thread.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby zuricity » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:40 pm

mr_nool wrote:
nottsblue wrote:A quite staggering decision not to award a penalty to Serbia. Two defenders wrestled Mitrovic to the ground. A more blatant, stonewall penalty you could not wish to see.


Just said the same in the other thread.


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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:41 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Crossie wrote:I think everyone would hope that it creates fair results, so games are fair. I know it’s notnused for every single thing that happens either but the officials in Moscow must have guns pointed at their heads because they are making strange decisions.


The strange decisions are because they're not even watching the games

Image


Looks like they are watching Argentine getting shafted yesterday.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby Beefymcfc » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:56 pm

When we were told about VAR I was all for it but concerned that it could be used as a tool to manipulate games. Now, from what I've seen in the WC, I know it's a tool to manipulate games. Not for certain clubs, that may come later, but to keep the groups interesting until the final game.

Early on they gave a penalty for arms around and dragging a player down yet on a few further occasions we see nothing. We have also seen the VAR tell the referee to review an incident, which was highly contentious, yet we have not seen it on obvious ones like tonight.

VAR is being utilised to manipulate games to make the whole thing more interesting, therefore to keep the viewing public interested, making the owner more money.

I'd be interested to know if anybody thinks different because this really concerns me.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby mr_nool » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:06 pm

Beefymcfc wrote:When we were told about VAR I was all for it but concerned that it could be used as a tool to manipulate games. Now, from what I've seen in the WC, I know it's a tool to manipulate games. Not for certain clubs, that may come later, but to keep the groups interesting until the final game.

Early on they gave a penalty for arms around and dragging a player down yet on a few further occasions we see nothing. We have also seen the VAR tell the referee to review an incident, which was highly contentious, yet we have not seen it on obvious ones like tonight.

VAR is being utilised to manipulate games to make the whole thing more interesting, therefore to keep the viewing public interested, making the owner more money.

I'd be interested to know if anybody thinks different because this really concerns me.



See my ramblings in the World Cup thread. I think it should be done by appeal. Give each team a fixed number of appeals per game, just like hawk eye challenges in tennis.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby zuricity » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:17 pm

mr_nool wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:When we were told about VAR I was all for it but concerned that it could be used as a tool to manipulate games. Now, from what I've seen in the WC, I know it's a tool to manipulate games. Not for certain clubs, that may come later, but to keep the groups interesting until the final game.

Early on they gave a penalty for arms around and dragging a player down yet on a few further occasions we see nothing. We have also seen the VAR tell the referee to review an incident, which was highly contentious, yet we have not seen it on obvious ones like tonight.

VAR is being utilised to manipulate games to make the whole thing more interesting, therefore to keep the viewing public interested, making the owner more money.

I'd be interested to know if anybody thinks different because this really concerns me.



See my ramblings in the World Cup thread. I think it should be done by appeal. Give each team a fixed number of appeals per game, just like hawk eye challenges in tennis.


Oh dear , Oh dear

Don't mix the two .What does Hawkeye do ?

Think about it ?

It is a simple black or white scenario

Ball in or ball out , that is it . How often does a ball get hit so finitely close to a line ?

Now apply that simple logic to whether a handball is a handball or not . You have no chance . Then there are loads of other scenarios that are contentious in football . Particularly the fcuking Diving !

You oversimplify the referees job comparing Tennis (ffs) to Football.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby mr_nool » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:32 am

zuricity wrote:
mr_nool wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:When we were told about VAR I was all for it but concerned that it could be used as a tool to manipulate games. Now, from what I've seen in the WC, I know it's a tool to manipulate games. Not for certain clubs, that may come later, but to keep the groups interesting until the final game.

Early on they gave a penalty for arms around and dragging a player down yet on a few further occasions we see nothing. We have also seen the VAR tell the referee to review an incident, which was highly contentious, yet we have not seen it on obvious ones like tonight.

VAR is being utilised to manipulate games to make the whole thing more interesting, therefore to keep the viewing public interested, making the owner more money.

I'd be interested to know if anybody thinks different because this really concerns me.



See my ramblings in the World Cup thread. I think it should be done by appeal. Give each team a fixed number of appeals per game, just like hawk eye challenges in tennis.


Oh dear , Oh dear

Don't mix the two .What does Hawkeye do ?

Think about it ?

It is a simple black or white scenario

Ball in or ball out , that is it . How often does a ball get hit so finitely close to a line ?

Now apply that simple logic to whether a handball is a handball or not . You have no chance . Then there are loads of other scenarios that are contentious in football . Particularly the fcuking Diving !

You oversimplify the referees job comparing Tennis (ffs) to Football.


There's no need to be condescending.

I don't mix the two, you are. The discussion in the other thread was about keeping the VAR from being yet another tool for the powers that be to influence games the way they want to. An appeal system is one way to do that. I drew to comparison to tennis simply because Hawkeye is employed on an appeal basis – I am fully aware that it works totally different than VAR and that the technology is more like the goal line technology.

I'm also aware that a lot of situations that are being reviewed (or will be challenged) are not black and white. That problem is evident already in this WC. My suggestion to deal with that is that the referee's decision should stand unless it's blatantly clet that it is wrong. Of course, there are bigger issues to solve for this to work well: make the handball and offside rule easier and less open to interpretation, set clearer standards for which tackles are classed as red or yellow card offences, etc.)

Beefy brings up a good argument against is, i.e. that it can be used by teams to break up play. That's a valid point, and there would have to be rules to prevent such things (very limited number of appeals, penalties for frivolous appeals, etc.).

Feel free to disagree, but at least bring up valid arguments and cut out the patronising shit.
Last edited by mr_nool on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby Nigels Tackle » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:57 am

@nool - your post was perfectly clear. zuri is one of the thickest pricks on this site at times...
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby zuricity » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:48 pm

Nigels Tackle wrote:@nool - your post was perfectly clear. zuri is one of the thickest pricks on this site at times...


you are being cheeky . The very idea of using Hawkeye as an example is wrong .

There are far too many variables and situations that are being videoed in football , compared to the simple , in or out , that Hawkeye manages .

So stick your abuse where the sun doesn't shine .
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Re: World Cup | VAR

Postby zuricity » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:57 pm

mr_nool wrote:
zuricity wrote:
mr_nool wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:When we were told about VAR I was all for it but concerned that it could be used as a tool to manipulate games. Now, from what I've seen in the WC, I know it's a tool to manipulate games. Not for certain clubs, that may come later, but to keep the groups interesting until the final game.

Early on they gave a penalty for arms around and dragging a player down yet on a few further occasions we see nothing. We have also seen the VAR tell the referee to review an incident, which was highly contentious, yet we have not seen it on obvious ones like tonight.

VAR is being utilised to manipulate games to make the whole thing more interesting, therefore to keep the viewing public interested, making the owner more money.

I'd be interested to know if anybody thinks different because this really concerns me.



See my ramblings in the World Cup thread. I think it should be done by appeal. Give each team a fixed number of appeals per game, just like hawk eye challenges in tennis.


Oh dear , Oh dear

Don't mix the two .What does Hawkeye do ?

Think about it ?

It is a simple black or white scenario

Ball in or ball out , that is it . How often does a ball get hit so finitely close to a line ?

Now apply that simple logic to whether a handball is a handball or not . You have no chance . Then there are loads of other scenarios that are contentious in football . Particularly the fcuking Diving !

You oversimplify the referees job comparing Tennis (ffs) to Football.


There's no need to be condescending.

I don't mix the two, you are. The discussion in the other thread was about keeping the VAR from being yet another tool for the powers that be to influence games the way they want to. An appeal system is one way to do that. I drew to comparison to tennis simply because Hawkeye is employed on an appeal basis – I am fully aware that it works totally different than VAR and that the technology is more like the goal line technology.

I'm also aware that a lot of situations that are being reviewed (or will be challenged) are not black and white. That problem is evident already in this WC. My suggestion to deal with that is that the referee's decision should stand unless it's blatantly clet that it is wrong. Of course, there are bigger issues to solve for this to work well: make the handball and offside rule easier and less open to interpretation, set clearer standards for which tackles are classed as red or yellow card offences, etc.)

Beefy brings up a good argument against is, i.e. that it can be used by teams to break up play. That's a valid point, and there would have to be rules to prevent such things (very limited number of appeals, penalties for frivolous appeals, etc.).

Feel free to disagree, but at least bring up valid arguments and cut out the patronising shit.


There is nothing patronising in pointing out that your reference to Hawkeye is wrong. Hawkeye manages ball in , ball out scenarios , nothing more . You mentioned Hawk eye , not Beefy or I .

The Challenge system works because it is one against one .

How would a challenge system function in football ? only over the captains ?

Again , you mentioned hawkeye and an appeal system , i didn't
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