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Crossie wrote:Mase, I said 1 player and 4 more years of experience. What is the point in saying we had an easy route and Holland and Italy were missing? Holland and Italy have both been shit, beaten by teams much worse. I would have loved it if we’d played Italy or Holland, we’d have beaten them. The route had teams who were doing as well as England. Would Germany beg to play Brazil, Spain and Argentina on their way to the final? No and teams make it to semi finals because they have been good enough to get there.

We’ve seen plenty of teams win major tournaments by having a sound game plan. That’s what England had. Do you really give a shit how the World Cup is won? Remember Greece in the Euros? Do you think they cared that they won nearly every game 1-0 with set piece goals? Winners of these competitions use set pieces as a weapon to unlock games.

I didn’t think England were going to win the World Cup this time, even when we went up 1-0 vs Croatia. It was all about building, building was done. Faith is restored and so is belief.

I’m with you on this one Crossie.
I honestly don’t know what some English fans expect.
You came 4th with a young team that wasn’t expected to get that far.
They are very limited, particularly in midfield, but you play as a team.
We’ve seen teams bore their way to finals in tournaments, over the years.
To say the big teams either weren’t in it or played terrible like Argentina or Brazil or Germany, is irrelevant.
You play what is in front of you. That was the standard this year and TBH you should have beaten Croatia. If you’d taken your chances in the first half you’d be in the final today.
Small margins. You are definitely a few players short of being true contenders.
The fact you can’t control a game from midfield like Modric is a big drawback at this level.

You over achieved with this group. If, and it’s a big if, Southgate holds his nerve and doesn’t pander to the media and tries to build on this, then you can have another stab at it in the Euros.

Being down on this team is not much different to swallowing the shit the media spout about City players IMO.
I suppose it’s glass half full or half empty syndrome.

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Crossie wrote:Mase, I said 1 player and 4 more years of experience. What is the point in saying we had an easy route and Holland and Italy were missing? Holland and Italy have both been shit, beaten by teams much worse. I would have loved it if we’d played Italy or Holland, we’d have beaten them. The route had teams who were doing as well as England. Would Germany beg to play Brazil, Spain and Argentina on their way to the final? No and teams make it to semi finals because they have been good enough to get there.

We’ve seen plenty of teams win major tournaments by having a sound game plan. That’s what England had. Do you really give a shit how the World Cup is won? Remember Greece in the Euros? Do you think they cared that they won nearly every game 1-0 with set piece goals? Winners of these competitions use set pieces as a weapon to unlock games.

I didn’t think England were going to win the World Cup this time, even when we went up 1-0 vs Croatia. It was all about building, building was done. Faith is restored and so is belief.

I’m with you on this one Crossie.
I honestly don’t know what some English fans expect.
You came 4th with a young team that wasn’t expected to get that far.
They are very limited, particularly in midfield, but you play as a team.
We’ve seen teams bore their way to finals in tournaments, over the years.
To say the big teams either weren’t in it or played terrible like Argentina or Brazil or Germany, is irrelevant.
You play what is in front of you. That was the standard this year and TBH you should have beaten Croatia. If you’d taken your chances in the first half you’d be in the final today.
Small margins. You are definitely a few players short of being true contenders.
The fact you can’t control a game from midfield like Modric is a big drawback at this level.

You over achieved with this group. If, and it’s a big if, Southgate holds his nerve and doesn’t pander to the media and tries to build on this, then you can have another stab at it in the Euros.

Being down on this team is not much different to swallowing the shit the media spout about City players IMO.
I suppose it’s glass half full or half empty syndrome.

I don't support England mate.

Mase wrote:

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Crossie wrote:Mase, I said 1 player and 4 more years of experience. What is the point in saying we had an easy route and Holland and Italy were missing? Holland and Italy have both been shit, beaten by teams much worse. I would have loved it if we’d played Italy or Holland, we’d have beaten them. The route had teams who were doing as well as England. Would Germany beg to play Brazil, Spain and Argentina on their way to the final? No and teams make it to semi finals because they have been good enough to get there.

We’ve seen plenty of teams win major tournaments by having a sound game plan. That’s what England had. Do you really give a shit how the World Cup is won? Remember Greece in the Euros? Do you think they cared that they won nearly every game 1-0 with set piece goals? Winners of these competitions use set pieces as a weapon to unlock games.

I didn’t think England were going to win the World Cup this time, even when we went up 1-0 vs Croatia. It was all about building, building was done. Faith is restored and so is belief.

I’m with you on this one Crossie.
I honestly don’t know what some English fans expect.
You came 4th with a young team that wasn’t expected to get that far.
They are very limited, particularly in midfield, but you play as a team.
We’ve seen teams bore their way to finals in tournaments, over the years.
To say the big teams either weren’t in it or played terrible like Argentina or Brazil or Germany, is irrelevant.
You play what is in front of you. That was the standard this year and TBH you should have beaten Croatia. If you’d taken your chances in the first half you’d be in the final today.
Small margins. You are definitely a few players short of being true contenders.
The fact you can’t control a game from midfield like Modric is a big drawback at this level.

You over achieved with this group. If, and it’s a big if, Southgate holds his nerve and doesn’t pander to the media and tries to build on this, then you can have another stab at it in the Euros.

Being down on this team is not much different to swallowing the shit the media spout about City players IMO.
I suppose it’s glass half full or half empty syndrome.

I don't support England mate.

I know that Liam.
There are others that don’t either, it seems to me, although they are very much English.

I'm English and support England. The fact that I can actually like the players is an absolute bonus and I am very content in how we are progressing.

Stroll on the Euros.

Still not convinced by Southgate at all - he had the guts to pick a young squad which is a plus, but he hasn't beaten a team of note, and our goals from open play has been woeful. (Winning a penalty shootout was nice though).

Original Dub wrote:

blues-clues wrote:Aren't we in the middle ground now - we got to the semi - clearly we are not shit. Anyone who thought we were top of the world was delusional. We did better than expected - we did better than Spain, Brazil, Argentina and Germany... but would we have beaten any of them?

I'd say most people expected you to beat Columbia and Sweden mate?

In answer to the above post, where it's questioned whether Deschamps is a great manager... you don't have to be a great manager to win the world cup. If you have a very good group of players who play top flight football, you just need to make sure there is harmony, shape, players playing in their best position and the right subs at the right time.

Southgate created harmony by all accounts.

And that's all.

His substitutions were cowardly and predictable. He played the whole team around Trippier, which meant pushing Sterling and Walker out of position. He changed tactics at the first sign of a setback.

I don't even know why I'm debating this tbh, it's Gareth fucking Southgate.

You've a great young team and you need a fearless manager who will keep the harmony and also do the football manager stuff. Get Eddie Howe in ASAP and you will be contenders for both the Euros and the next World Cup IMO.

Posted this elsewhere:
"Gareth's done well, much better than I expected obviously, but I still think he's limited in how far he can take England going forward. Either he needs to learn a plan B or execute plan A for a full 90 minutes, not just until we take the lead. Still, can't complain too much with 4th place and he may have planned to blood this young side ready for Euro 2020......"
Still not sure on that last bit while he is picking some of the squad because of who they play for though! But maybe that's not his decision.......

We qualify for the world cup because we get easy groups to get through and it would be difficult not to. Then we get there and I look at it that we had a group of Tunisia , Belgium , Panama ,Columbia , Sweden.

We effectively had to win all the games with the exception of Belgium to get through to the semi final because of the way other (so called) good teams got knocked out. We succeeded in doing that although not really with any style or quality.

The first half v Tunisia was quite good but in the end it needed a last minute goal. Panama were just crap so lets not get excited by scoring 6.

Lost to Belgiums 2nd team with our 2nd team.

Drew with Columbia who were poor and without their key player. But wow we won on pens.

Beat a poor Sweden team. But we were decent.

Lost to Croatia and after a decent start we basically lost it and looked poor.

Lost to Belgium quite easily.

So have we had a good world cup? Obviously yes because we got to a semi final irrespective of how.
Yes because the media say so and yes because it seems the majority of the football public here have bought into it and say so.

Some good signs obviously and some good individual performances. ( Stones, Maguire, Trippier , Pickford) I have a lot of time for Southgate although I am far from convinced he is a good tactical manager. very good though in lots of other ways.

With Southgate we now are in a good position but changes need to be made. Some of the rubbish need to be discarded and he must find players who can really play especially in midfield and if that means going very young then why not.

It's our youth teams that have won things so start them quickly and not wait for long.There must be players around from Chelsea /City and others who have the quality. Foden will get mentioned and might be a litle too young yet but maybe someone like Mason Mount of Chelsea. Will Southgate use the position of strength he has to make important changes. I hope so but doubt it.

Dameerto wrote:(Winning a penalty shootout was nice though).

One monkey off your back.
Time will tell with Southgate.

Dameerto wrote:Still not convinced by Southgate at all - he had the guts to pick a young squad which is a plus, but he hasn't beaten a team of note, and our goals from open play has been woeful. (Winning a penalty shootout was nice though).

You beat Columbia which you should be proud of. And Sweden have been a bogey team for you.

Cheer up you cranky buggers. You overachieved. Enjoy it. I am so glad that on here no one went over the top with the "It's coming home" crap. It flooded my facebook feed and was totally cringey.

Humble City fans. Best in the world.

dazby wrote:

Dameerto wrote:Still not convinced by Southgate at all - he had the guts to pick a young squad which is a plus, but he hasn't beaten a team of note, and our goals from open play has been woeful. (Winning a penalty shootout was nice though).

You beat Columbia which you should be proud of. And Sweden have been a bogey team for you.

Cheer up you cranky buggers. You overachieved. Enjoy it. I am so glad that on here no one went over the top with the "It's coming home" crap. It flooded my facebook feed and was totally cringey.

Humble City fans. Best in the world.

Humility and a sense of humor are not mutually exclusive.

I’m not convinced by Southgate or the England team/squad at all.

The truth of the matter is, we got the easiest draws and group we could’ve asked for but we were not up to the task as soon as a decent team turned up.

In my opinion Southgate is out of his depth but unfortunately it’s going to take probably another 4 years before everyone figures it out and I doubt he will get to the level required by then.

People are only looking at the fact we got to the semi final and ignoring the details as to how it happened.