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Re: VAR

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:30 pm
by carl_feedthegoat
blues2win wrote:My suggestion was rather different. If the video was very marginal the referee’s original decision would stand. The question is what would be marginal. Perhaps if the whole body wasn’t ahead of the defender it would revert back to the referee? Tricky stuff I agree. VAR is not going away. There should be concentration on improving it not scrapping it.


It is impossible to see the football leaving the foot by MM and then seeing the forwards body at the same time in MM on camera.

Yet they can ignore the latter and decide its offside by MM ????

If I'm wrong Id like VAR to educate the public on every fuckign aspect of this procedure.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:52 pm
by Beefymcfc
What I found interesting was when Graham Poll, SSN Ask the Ref, was asked about the penalty retake he said it was correct and the the keeper off the line was at the discretion of the ref. When asked by the presenter if the league had different interpretations from the reg's he said we didn't before waffling some shit. He then said it would be meaningless to check the foot of the keeper because it could be millimeters. Now, considering he said how spectacular the decision was for the millimeters offside decision why would he go against the reg's talking about the new rule on keepers and penalties?

That says to me that VAR is all up for manipulation, not just by the operator but also those who can smooth out any indiscretion in order to keep the sheeples on script.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:01 pm
by blues2win
The penalty retake was for encroaching by a player who subsequently got involved by hoofing the ball clear. If he hadnt got involved no retake. The decision was correct. Nothing to do with the goalie’s foot.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:45 pm
by carl_feedthegoat
Beefymcfc wrote:What I found interesting was when Graham Poll, SSN Ask the Ref, was asked about the penalty retake he said it was correct and the the keeper off the line was at the discretion of the ref. When asked by the presenter if the league had different interpretations from the reg's he said we didn't before waffling some shit. He then said it would be meaningless to check the foot of the keeper because it could be millimeters. Now, considering he said how spectacular the decision was for the millimeters offside decision why would he go against the reg's talking about the new rule on keepers and penalties?

That says to me that VAR is all up for manipulation, not just by the operator but also those who can smooth out any indiscretion in order to keep the sheeples on script.


Exactly

Fuckign SKY never once mentioned frames per milli second as it completely makes a farce of VAR.

I hope Andy Gray brings this up every fuckign week till it gets the publicity it deserves.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:13 pm
by zuricity
This is what is wrong with the Media, ex refs etc.

It is how they justify their selection as "Experts".

On the BBC website discussion of how VAR went at the weekend, they quote ex ref Foy.This on Razzas first offside and pass to Jesus.

Foy's verdict: "All goals are checked as a matter of routine. In this case it is a factual decision - in the build-up to the goal you can clearly see Sterling is offside so it is a straightforward decision to overturn the goal."

Correct me if i am wrong, you most certainly could not see that he was "Clearly" offside, if offside at all .

Millemetres, Foy. You daft prick.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:41 am
by Beefymcfc
blues2win wrote:The penalty retake was for encroaching by a player who subsequently got involved by hoofing the ball clear. If he hadnt got involved no retake. The decision was correct. Nothing to do with the goalie’s foot.

Yes, that's how they explained it after being totally confused by what was going on, so probably updated by one on the backroom squad. But, tell me, if the new regulation is that the keeper must keep one foot on/over the line, why have we chosen to ignore the regulation that is set for all?

When you think about it, there is an advantage to be gained by certain keepers, due to size, etc, so why have we chosen to introduce are own regulation?

I don't get it.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:08 pm
by Plain Speaking
https://youtu.be/pIsrzV2hatA

A good analysis by Andy Gray on Bein of the VAR decisions from our game.
I thought VAR offside decisions were both wrong.

First one should have been given, second one disallowed for me, also it was only because they had disallowed the first they allowed the second!

Wimbledon hawkeye and goal line technology are completely independent of human interference, (assuming they are properly set up!) Offsides currently are not.
Shearer and the football authorities have been trying to brainwash people into the belief that if VAR makes a ruling, it must be 100% true, but the technology is currently not that advanced. They should be honest on its limitations. It depends at one precise point the VAR operator freezes the image they are examining.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:40 am
by Blue Jam
Quick summary of my opinion on VAR
- Incompetently used / open to corruption
- Technology is not good enough for outcomes to be obejective
- provides psuedo-objective 'evidence' which people are beginning to suss out already
- can't celebrate a goal wholeheartedly anymore - compare Aguero Vs QPR / Vinnie Vs Leicester / Goatee Vs Rags to any goal since disallowed Aguero Vs Spurs
- I suspect it's being used as opportunity in to "add drama" so football appeals to a wider audience.

In short, it does not eliminate incorrect decisions and spoils enjoyment.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:02 pm
by Dubaimancityfan
VAR has been used in the A League here in Australia for a couple of seasons now and in general has been working well with no major controversies. However what is different is that the on field ref checks a monitor and makes the final decision. I didn’t see Riley looking at any monitor but instead was waiting for a decision to be made for him. That’s a big differences I think and can allow who ever is running VAR to manipulate the replays. It didn’t affect us on Saturday but just wait for some big matches when one goal would be a big factor in the end result.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:12 pm
by harveytravis
Dubaimancityfan wrote:VAR has been used in the A League here in Australia for a couple of seasons now and in general has been working well with no major controversies. However what is different is that the on field ref checks a monitor and makes the final decision. I didn’t see Riley looking at any monitor but instead was waiting for a decision to be made for him. That’s a big differences I think and can allow who ever is running VAR to manipulate the replays. It didn’t affect us on Saturday but just wait for some big matches when one goal would be a big factor in the end result.




How about quarter finals of chumps league for example?

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:19 am
by nottsblue
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:What I found interesting was when Graham Poll, SSN Ask the Ref, was asked about the penalty retake he said it was correct and the the keeper off the line was at the discretion of the ref. When asked by the presenter if the league had different interpretations from the reg's he said we didn't before waffling some shit. He then said it would be meaningless to check the foot of the keeper because it could be millimeters. Now, considering he said how spectacular the decision was for the millimeters offside decision why would he go against the reg's talking about the new rule on keepers and penalties?

That says to me that VAR is all up for manipulation, not just by the operator but also those who can smooth out any indiscretion in order to keep the sheeples on script.


Exactly

Fuckign SKY never once mentioned frames per milli second as it completely makes a farce of VAR.

I hope Andy Gray brings this up every fuckign week till it gets the publicity it deserves.

Samuel's has written about this exact thing this morning. 2 inches is covered in 1/75 of a second by a guy running at 15 mph. Quicker than a human eye can blink

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:11 pm
by Bluemoon4610
nottsblue wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:What I found interesting was when Graham Poll, SSN Ask the Ref, was asked about the penalty retake he said it was correct and the the keeper off the line was at the discretion of the ref. When asked by the presenter if the league had different interpretations from the reg's he said we didn't before waffling some shit. He then said it would be meaningless to check the foot of the keeper because it could be millimeters. Now, considering he said how spectacular the decision was for the millimeters offside decision why would he go against the reg's talking about the new rule on keepers and penalties?

That says to me that VAR is all up for manipulation, not just by the operator but also those who can smooth out any indiscretion in order to keep the sheeples on script.


Exactly

Fuckign SKY never once mentioned frames per milli second as it completely makes a farce of VAR.

I hope Andy Gray brings this up every fuckign week till it gets the publicity it deserves.

Samuel's has written about this exact thing this morning. 2 inches is covered in 1/75 of a second by a guy running at 15 mph. Quicker than a human eye can blink

Got a link? Worth a read, that.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:17 pm
by nottsblue
Bluemoon4610 wrote:
nottsblue wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:What I found interesting was when Graham Poll, SSN Ask the Ref, was asked about the penalty retake he said it was correct and the the keeper off the line was at the discretion of the ref. When asked by the presenter if the league had different interpretations from the reg's he said we didn't before waffling some shit. He then said it would be meaningless to check the foot of the keeper because it could be millimeters. Now, considering he said how spectacular the decision was for the millimeters offside decision why would he go against the reg's talking about the new rule on keepers and penalties?

That says to me that VAR is all up for manipulation, not just by the operator but also those who can smooth out any indiscretion in order to keep the sheeples on script.


Exactly

Fuckign SKY never once mentioned frames per milli second as it completely makes a farce of VAR.

I hope Andy Gray brings this up every fuckign week till it gets the publicity it deserves.

Samuel's has written about this exact thing this morning. 2 inches is covered in 1/75 of a second by a guy running at 15 mph. Quicker than a human eye can blink

Got a link? Worth a read, that.

Sorry, it was an actual paper I read it in

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:24 pm
by Bluemoon4610
nottsblue wrote:
Bluemoon4610 wrote:
nottsblue wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:What I found interesting was when Graham Poll, SSN Ask the Ref, was asked about the penalty retake he said it was correct and the the keeper off the line was at the discretion of the ref. When asked by the presenter if the league had different interpretations from the reg's he said we didn't before waffling some shit. He then said it would be meaningless to check the foot of the keeper because it could be millimeters. Now, considering he said how spectacular the decision was for the millimeters offside decision why would he go against the reg's talking about the new rule on keepers and penalties?

That says to me that VAR is all up for manipulation, not just by the operator but also those who can smooth out any indiscretion in order to keep the sheeples on script.


Exactly

Fuckign SKY never once mentioned frames per milli second as it completely makes a farce of VAR.

I hope Andy Gray brings this up every fuckign week till it gets the publicity it deserves.

Samuel's has written about this exact thing this morning. 2 inches is covered in 1/75 of a second by a guy running at 15 mph. Quicker than a human eye can blink

Got a link? Worth a read, that.

Sorry, it was an actual paper I read it in

People still read papers? :o

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:16 am
by Dubaimancityfan
harveytravis wrote:
Dubaimancityfan wrote:VAR has been used in the A League here in Australia for a couple of seasons now and in general has been working well with no major controversies. However what is different is that the on field ref checks a monitor and makes the final decision. I didn’t see Riley looking at any monitor but instead was waiting for a decision to be made for him. That’s a big differences I think and can allow who ever is running VAR to manipulate the replays. It didn’t affect us on Saturday but just wait for some big matches when one goal would be a big factor in the end result.




How about quarter finals of chumps league for example?


That’s a great and tragic example. In that game the ref did check the pitch side monitor so he made the final decision. In the West Ham game Mike Riley was waiting for some faceless ref/technician to make the decision for him.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:35 am
by Foreverinbluedreams
Here's the bit from Martin Samuel that Notts referred to:


LET'S STOP KIDDING VAR IS UP TO SPEED ON OFFSIDE
It is the height of irony that those who have VAR seem unconvinced of its wisdom, while those who do not are agitating for its introduction. Jonathan Woodgate, manager of Middlesbrough, insisted it should be introduced in the Championship, after a 1-0 defeat at home to Brentford on Saturday.

Meanwhile, the International Football Association Board, the game's rulemakers, are considering a number of tweaks that could be introduced after this season. These include more information for fans inside the ground — which is a must — and an assessment of whether offside calls must be clear and obvious rather than black and white.

The problem seems to be the pretence that VAR can judge the precise moment the ball is played forward and rule accordingly. For example, the fastest player in the Premier League is Leroy Sane with a top speed of 22mph. So even if we reduce that to 15mph, it still means a player will cover 22 feet per second.

And now offside is being measured in matters of inches, this requires gauging events in fractions of second. To be two inches offside takes 1/75th of a second, less time than to blink. And how long does the ball remain in contact with the boot when it is kicked forward?

We are kidding ourselves if we think we can measure the precise moment of contact in relation to the position of the forward with sufficient accuracy to judge his status perfectly.

These are subjects for IFAB to discuss, although one might have thought this would have happened before VAR's introduction. It was hardly unforeseen.

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:22 pm
by nottsblue
Let’s if Sky mention VAR with the non awarding of a penalty

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:29 pm
by Wooders
This will ruin football
What a pathetic reason to disallow a goal

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:31 pm
by Grandad Rosler
Absolute bag of bullshit. Already losing interest in football

Re: VAR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:32 pm
by Sparklehorse
VAR will fuck up our season, it’s already apparent.
Every goal we score will be under the microscope and any any reason whatsoever to disallow will bu used.

Where was the penalty in the first half ??

I hate it already