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VAR, it turns out, far from being some neutral all-seeing eye, a benevolent Big Brother visiting justice upon the world, has plunged the game into epistemological crisis. What is handball? If players can move up to 15cm between frames, how can offsides be given to an accuracy of millimetre? What is “clear and obvious” and could something be obvious but not clear? What level of error are we prepared to accept so claims of accuracy don’t make us uncomfortable? And is it really right that there’s strict liability for a ball brushing a player’s arm but not for one player barging another in the back?

But the disallowing of Gabriel Jesus’s apparent winner was more than just another VAR call; it was a decision locked in such regress of ironies it felt like football was almost wilfully exercising its mischievous streak. Aymeric Laporte did handle the ball and as the law now stands, any contact with the arm in the buildup to a goal is an offence. By the law, the decision was correct, just as it was correct that Leander Dendoncker’s goal against Leicester last week was ruled out.

But minds inevitably go back to that quarter-final last year and the vital goal Fernando Llorente scored for Spurs via a deflection off his arm. Under the law as it now stands, that would have been ruled out. Raheem Sterling, of course, then had an injury-time goal ruled out for offside; had VAR been operational the previous season, the goal City had chalked off for offside shortly before half-time in the second leg of the quarter-final tie against Liverpool would have stood. City’s misfortune has been to keep finding themselves a year behind the interpretation.

It’s coincidence of course, and certainly not the conspiracy many City fans leaving the Etihad seemed to want to claim but still, it’s hard not to appreciate the irony VAR, ostensibly a force for order and consistency in football, should, even though it’s likely to be temporary, be playing such a central role in undermining Guardiola’s quest for order. Football, even now, will have its sport.

PrezIke wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/18/pep-guardiola-manchester-city-tottenham-var

Wilson I believe is amongst those that hates us, and you can read it in here, although also a few fair questions points (other than of course the last paragraph):

What is handball? If players can move up to 15cm between frames, how can offsides be given to an accuracy of millimetre?

budfox wrote:

PrezIke wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/18/pep-guardiola-manchester-city-tottenham-var

Wilson I believe is amongst those that hates us, and you can read it in here, although also a few fair questions points (other than of course the last paragraph):

What is handball? If players can move up to 15cm between frames, how can offsides be given to an accuracy of millimetre?

Makes me pleased to read a sports journalist saying the exact same thing I wrote on this forum last week and before Andy Gray said it too.

sheblue wrote:Dont bother celebrating goals anymore, no point. Very difficult thing to do, but that's the way its going to go eventually.
Forget about the fans just have a TV / Technology spectacle like that FIFA game shit the kids play. Fill the stadiums with robots and programe them to clap when VAR tells them they can. The joy, elation and emotion of a goal is dead with VAR.
Were going to loose more than were going to gain.
The game will go like snooker.

Plain Speaking wrote:I saw this comment on the BBC
"I think the rule has been incorrectly applied. The goal has to be "scored or created with the use of the hand or arm". The brushing of the arm did not create the goal, so no offence. "
Regardless all those saying it was the "right decision" I am sure that sort of incident was not in mind when the new rule was drafted.

Personally I think the new rule needs clarification to get to the original purpose:
If the actual goalscorer used his hand or arm to score a goal, then no problem - the goal should be disallowed. However, If it contacted a separate player earlier in the attack and this wouldn't be a free kick outside the area the goal should stand.

carl_feedthegoat wrote:If VAR stops match going folk actually going to matches then it needs to have a complete overhaul - this could be the death of filling stadiums up and that will be catastrophic.

I really don't think the powers that be have thought this one through enough.

ross.mcfc wrote:

carl_feedthegoat wrote:If VAR stops match going folk actually going to matches then it needs to have a complete overhaul - this could be the death of filling stadiums up and that will be catastrophic.

I really don't think the powers that be have thought this one through enough.

- 11am kick-offs on a Sunday Morning.
- Games chopped and changed at the will on the TV companies, leaving thousands out of pocket.
- Completely sterile stadiums
- £120 quid for a ticket.

But VAR is the hill people are going to die on?

For 20 years now, the majority of people wanted video-assisted technology, now after two games, they want it scrapped. I'm still raging about Saturday but it's all a bit hysterical now. The "cant celebrate" mob clearly have never been to a game been to an away game where a linesman has bottled it and put up a late flag. Been at a game where a linesman and ref have had a long chat before ruling out a City goal nor been to a game to know the agony of clearly wrong offside decision (CL QF against Pool anyone).

Saturday fucking sucked but the law was at fault, not VAR.

Mase wrote:

ross.mcfc wrote:

carl_feedthegoat wrote:If VAR stops match going folk actually going to matches then it needs to have a complete overhaul - this could be the death of filling stadiums up and that will be catastrophic.

I really don't think the powers that be have thought this one through enough.

- 11am kick-offs on a Sunday Morning.
- Games chopped and changed at the will on the TV companies, leaving thousands out of pocket.
- Completely sterile stadiums
- £120 quid for a ticket.

But VAR is the hill people are going to die on?

For 20 years now, the majority of people wanted video-assisted technology, now after two games, they want it scrapped. I'm still raging about Saturday but it's all a bit hysterical now. The "cant celebrate" mob clearly have never been to a game been to an away game where a linesman has bottled it and put up a late flag. Been at a game where a linesman and ref have had a long chat before ruling out a City goal nor been to a game to know the agony of clearly wrong offside decision (CL QF against Pool anyone).

Saturday fucking sucked but the law was at fault, not VAR.

Comparing a linesman putting his flag up for one goal to every goal being checked by someone we don't know about that clearly doesn't know or understand the rule change?

carl_feedthegoat wrote:

Mase wrote:

ross.mcfc wrote:

carl_feedthegoat wrote:If VAR stops match going folk actually going to matches then it needs to have a complete overhaul - this could be the death of filling stadiums up and that will be catastrophic.

I really don't think the powers that be have thought this one through enough.

- 11am kick-offs on a Sunday Morning.
- Games chopped and changed at the will on the TV companies, leaving thousands out of pocket.
- Completely sterile stadiums
- £120 quid for a ticket.

But VAR is the hill people are going to die on?

For 20 years now, the majority of people wanted video-assisted technology, now after two games, they want it scrapped. I'm still raging about Saturday but it's all a bit hysterical now. The "cant celebrate" mob clearly have never been to a game been to an away game where a linesman has bottled it and put up a late flag. Been at a game where a linesman and ref have had a long chat before ruling out a City goal nor been to a game to know the agony of clearly wrong offside decision (CL QF against Pool anyone).

Saturday fucking sucked but the law was at fault, not VAR.

Comparing a linesman putting his flag up for one goal to every goal being checked by someone we don't know about that clearly doesn't know or understand the rule change?

I also wasn't aware of a linesman taking 2 minutes to put his flag up.

Mase wrote:

carl_feedthegoat wrote:

Mase wrote:

ross.mcfc wrote:

carl_feedthegoat wrote:If VAR stops match going folk actually going to matches then it needs to have a complete overhaul - this could be the death of filling stadiums up and that will be catastrophic.

I really don't think the powers that be have thought this one through enough.

- 11am kick-offs on a Sunday Morning.
- Games chopped and changed at the will on the TV companies, leaving thousands out of pocket.
- Completely sterile stadiums
- £120 quid for a ticket.

But VAR is the hill people are going to die on?

For 20 years now, the majority of people wanted video-assisted technology, now after two games, they want it scrapped. I'm still raging about Saturday but it's all a bit hysterical now. The "cant celebrate" mob clearly have never been to a game been to an away game where a linesman has bottled it and put up a late flag. Been at a game where a linesman and ref have had a long chat before ruling out a City goal nor been to a game to know the agony of clearly wrong offside decision (CL QF against Pool anyone).

Saturday fucking sucked but the law was at fault, not VAR.

Comparing a linesman putting his flag up for one goal to every goal being checked by someone we don't know about that clearly doesn't know or understand the rule change?

I also wasn't aware of a linesman taking 2 minutes to put his flag up.

Linesman puts his flag up and it's offside. There an then. You don't celebrate like fuck for five mins for then the ref to ask VAR to review it for another 2 mins, all the time you sat in the stadium not having a clue what's going on, then they interpret the rule wrong and disallow the goal.

Bluemoon4610 wrote:Think this may have been posted before but it's worth another view of the amended rules from IFAB. I cannot see any infringement of these rules in our disallowed goal on Saturday, so has anyone seen/heard any "official" reason from PL/PGMOL? Has the club asked for an explanation? If PL are applying their own interpretation of these new laws, the only reason I can think of for this is to manipulate results.

ross.mcfc wrote:

carl_feedthegoat wrote:If VAR stops match going folk actually going to matches then it needs to have a complete overhaul - this could be the death of filling stadiums up and that will be catastrophic.

I really don't think the powers that be have thought this one through enough.

- 11am kick-offs on a Sunday Morning.
- Games chopped and changed at the will on the TV companies, leaving thousands out of pocket.
- Completely sterile stadiums
- £120 quid for a ticket.

But VAR is the hill people are going to die on?

For 20 years now, the majority of people wanted video-assisted technology, now after two games, they want it scrapped. I'm still raging about Saturday but it's all a bit hysterical now. The "cant celebrate" mob clearly have never been to a game been to an away game where a linesman has bottled it and put up a late flag. Been at a game where a linesman and ref have had a long chat before ruling out a City goal nor been to a game to know the agony of clearly wrong offside decision (CL QF against Pool anyone).

Saturday fucking sucked but the law was at fault, not VAR.