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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Mase » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:11 pm

Saul Goodman wrote:Does he come back and count as homegrown?


He should do.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby fangsanalsatan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:27 pm

Saul Goodman wrote:Does he come back and count as homegrown?

Yes, just about.

13/14 full season with the U18
14/15 full season with the EDS
15/16 four months with NYCFC, eight months with the EDS
16/17 six months with the EDS, one month with Girona, five months with Mallorca
17/18 full season with NAC
18/19 full season with PSV

All in all, a little over three years with City before he turned 21.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby PrezIke » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:02 pm

Mase wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:Does he come back and count as homegrown?


He should do.


Yes.

One thing is he's not 23 yet (turns so in January), so technically he does not have to registered. Not sure if he would have to during the January/February registration of players.

He's also a club trained HG player (vs. association trained: i.e Stones, Walker, Sterling, Delph), which is more useful/valuble for CL registration. We've been using Foden and academy players.

However, are we actually keeping him or re-selling?
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:47 pm

fangsanalsatan wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:Does he come back and count as homegrown?

Yes, just about.

13/14 full season with the U18
14/15 full season with the EDS
15/16 four months with NYCFC, eight months with the EDS
16/17 six months with the EDS, one month with Girona, five months with Mallorca
17/18 full season with NAC
18/19 full season with PSV

All in all, a little over three years with City before he turned 21.


I thought once he's on the club's books for 3 years before 21 he's eligible? So when he's on loan he's still on City's books, in which case he would fall comfortably into homegrown?
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:47 pm

PrezIke wrote:
Mase wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:Does he come back and count as homegrown?


He should do.


Yes.

One thing is he's not 23 yet (turns so in January), so technically he does not have to registered. Not sure if he would have to during the January/February registration of players.

He's also a club trained HG player (vs. association trained: i.e Stones, Walker, Sterling, Delph), which is more useful/valuble for CL registration. We've been using Foden and academy players.

However, are we actually keeping him or re-selling?


21 is the cut off isn't it, not 23?
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby fangsanalsatan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:05 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:Does he come back and count as homegrown?

Yes, just about.

13/14 full season with the U18
14/15 full season with the EDS
15/16 four months with NYCFC, eight months with the EDS
16/17 six months with the EDS, one month with Girona, five months with Mallorca
17/18 full season with NAC
18/19 full season with PSV

All in all, a little over three years with City before he turned 21.


I thought once he's on the club's books for 3 years before 21 he's eligible? So when he's on loan he's still on City's books, in which case he would fall comfortably into homegrown?

No, since players out on loan are registered for the loaning club and not the parent club.

A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).


But you are correct that the cutoff is 21 years, more specifically players who are born on or after 1 Jan 1998 for next season, which means that Gabi Jesus now takes up a non-homegrown spot, but Douglas Luiz would be able to be put on the U21 list if he got a work permit. Angelino would take up a club-trained homegrown spot, with three remaining.

Also, Sandler is now ineligible for the U21 list, which makes it highly unlikely that he will stick around.

GK Ederson, Bravo or Riesgo, Grimshaw*
RB Walker*, Danilo or Cancelo
CB Stones*, Laporte, Otamendi, Eric García*
LB Mendy, Zinchenko, Angeliño*
DM Rodrigo, Fernandinho
AM De Bruyne, Silva, Gündoğan, Foden*
RW Bernardo, Mahrez
LW Sterling*, Sané
CF Agüero, Jesus

*HG or U21
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Mase » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:15 pm

What's going on with Douglas Luiz?!
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:20 pm

Mase wrote:What's going on with Douglas Luiz?!


Still no work permit.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby fangsanalsatan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:21 pm

The club are hopeful to secure a work permit for him this season. Although he is still uncapped for the senior team, he won a player of the tournament award at a minor U21 tournament which Brazil won and could be granted a work permit on the grounds of exceptional talent or whatever the exact wording is.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:25 pm

fangsanalsatan wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:Does he come back and count as homegrown?

Yes, just about.

13/14 full season with the U18
14/15 full season with the EDS
15/16 four months with NYCFC, eight months with the EDS
16/17 six months with the EDS, one month with Girona, five months with Mallorca
17/18 full season with NAC
18/19 full season with PSV

All in all, a little over three years with City before he turned 21.


I thought once he's on the club's books for 3 years before 21 he's eligible? So when he's on loan he's still on City's books, in which case he would fall comfortably into homegrown?

No, since players out on loan are registered for the loaning club and not the parent club.

A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).


But you are correct that the cutoff is 21 years, more specifically players who are born on or after 1 Jan 1998 for next season, which means that Gabi Jesus now takes up a non-homegrown spot, but Douglas Luiz would be able to be put on the U21 list if he got a work permit. Angelino would take up a club-trained homegrown spot, with three remaining.

Also, Sandler is now ineligible for the U21 list, which makes it highly unlikely that he will stick around.

GK Ederson, Bravo or Riesgo, Grimshaw*
RB Walker*, Danilo or Cancelo
CB Stones*, Laporte, Otamendi, Eric García*
LB Mendy, Zinchenko, Angeliño*
DM Rodrigo, Fernandinho
AM De Bruyne, Silva, Gündoğan, Foden*
RW Bernardo, Mahrez
LW Sterling*, Sané
CF Agüero, Jesus

*HG or U21


That's ambiguous. Does a parent club not hold the player's registration when he is on loan?
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby ruralblue » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:54 pm

fangsanalsatan wrote:The club are hopeful to secure a work permit for him this season. Although he is still uncapped for the senior team, he won a player of the tournament award at a minor U21 tournament which Brazil won and could be granted a work permit on the grounds of exceptional talent or whatever the exact wording is.


Ridiculous. He'll pay more tax in a year than I'll pay in twenty. He's not going to be doing a runner and sponging off society. I never get stuff like this. It's a work permit ffs.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Mase » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:55 pm

ruralblue wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:The club are hopeful to secure a work permit for him this season. Although he is still uncapped for the senior team, he won a player of the tournament award at a minor U21 tournament which Brazil won and could be granted a work permit on the grounds of exceptional talent or whatever the exact wording is.


Ridiculous. He'll pay more tax in a year than I'll pay in twenty. He's not going to be doing a runner and sponging off society. I never get stuff like this. It's a work permit ffs.


It's because it's us mate. I'm sure the rags got a work permit straight away for those shite Brazilian twins they had.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby fangsanalsatan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:42 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:Does he come back and count as homegrown?

Yes, just about.

13/14 full season with the U18
14/15 full season with the EDS
15/16 four months with NYCFC, eight months with the EDS
16/17 six months with the EDS, one month with Girona, five months with Mallorca
17/18 full season with NAC
18/19 full season with PSV

All in all, a little over three years with City before he turned 21.


I thought once he's on the club's books for 3 years before 21 he's eligible? So when he's on loan he's still on City's books, in which case he would fall comfortably into homegrown?

No, since players out on loan are registered for the loaning club and not the parent club.

A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).


But you are correct that the cutoff is 21 years, more specifically players who are born on or after 1 Jan 1998 for next season, which means that Gabi Jesus now takes up a non-homegrown spot, but Douglas Luiz would be able to be put on the U21 list if he got a work permit. Angelino would take up a club-trained homegrown spot, with three remaining.

Also, Sandler is now ineligible for the U21 list, which makes it highly unlikely that he will stick around.

GK Ederson, Bravo or Riesgo, Grimshaw*
RB Walker*, Danilo or Cancelo
CB Stones*, Laporte, Otamendi, Eric García*
LB Mendy, Zinchenko, Angeliño*
DM Rodrigo, Fernandinho
AM De Bruyne, Silva, Gündoğan, Foden*
RW Bernardo, Mahrez
LW Sterling*, Sané
CF Agüero, Jesus

*HG or U21


That's ambiguous. Does a parent club not hold the player's registration when he is on loan?

Nope, it's very clear. According to FIFA regulations a player may only be registered with one club at a time.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:11 pm

fangsanalsatan wrote:Nope, it's very clear. According to FIFA regulations a player may only be registered with one club at a time.


Cheers, so in terms of Muric, by sending him out on loan this season we are messing up the opportunity for another club grown player in our squad the following season? Seems daft!
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby fangsanalsatan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:33 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:Nope, it's very clear. According to FIFA regulations a player may only be registered with one club at a time.


Cheers, so in terms of Muric, by sending him out on loan this season we are messing up the opportunity for another club grown player in our squad the following season? Seems daft!

Muric joined in March 2015 and only left for NAC in July 2018, so he already fulfilled the three year period.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Mase » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:34 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:Nope, it's very clear. According to FIFA regulations a player may only be registered with one club at a time.


Cheers, so in terms of Muric, by sending him out on loan this season we are messing up the opportunity for another club grown player in our squad the following season? Seems daft!


Sounds like a stupid rule. Stunt the potential growth of a player by stopping them going out on loan to keep them in the reserves.

The people who are running football are absolute morons.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby fangsanalsatan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:50 pm

Mase wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:Nope, it's very clear. According to FIFA regulations a player may only be registered with one club at a time.


Cheers, so in terms of Muric, by sending him out on loan this season we are messing up the opportunity for another club grown player in our squad the following season? Seems daft!


Sounds like a stupid rule. Stunt the potential growth of a player by stopping them going out on loan to keep them in the reserves.

The people who are running football are absolute morons.

I guess you could argue that it's misguided in its intent to help and reward the development of youth players in clubs. But if you already have such a homegrown rule in place, you cannot allow loan periods to count. Otherwise you'd have clubs hovering up youth players and simply farming them out and never let them see the parent club from the inside.

Then a Serbian kid who City bought from Partizan and loaned back straight away counts as homegrown and trained by a club within the FA after three years without ever seeing a training pitch in Manchester? Bollocks.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby Mase » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:51 pm

fangsanalsatan wrote:
Mase wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:Nope, it's very clear. According to FIFA regulations a player may only be registered with one club at a time.


Cheers, so in terms of Muric, by sending him out on loan this season we are messing up the opportunity for another club grown player in our squad the following season? Seems daft!


Sounds like a stupid rule. Stunt the potential growth of a player by stopping them going out on loan to keep them in the reserves.

The people who are running football are absolute morons.

I guess you could argue that it's misguided in its intent to help and reward the development of youth players in clubs. But if you already have such a homegrown rule in place, you cannot allow loan periods to count. Otherwise you'd have clubs hovering up youth players and simply farming them out and never let them see the parent club from the inside.

Then a Serbian kid who City bought from Partizan and loaned back straight away counts as homegrown and trained by a club within the FA after three years without ever seeing a training pitch in Manchester? Bollocks.


The whole homegrown rule is bollocks mate. Let a club do whatever it wants with the players it has.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby fangsanalsatan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:04 pm

Mase wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:
Mase wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
fangsanalsatan wrote:Nope, it's very clear. According to FIFA regulations a player may only be registered with one club at a time.


Cheers, so in terms of Muric, by sending him out on loan this season we are messing up the opportunity for another club grown player in our squad the following season? Seems daft!


Sounds like a stupid rule. Stunt the potential growth of a player by stopping them going out on loan to keep them in the reserves.

The people who are running football are absolute morons.

I guess you could argue that it's misguided in its intent to help and reward the development of youth players in clubs. But if you already have such a homegrown rule in place, you cannot allow loan periods to count. Otherwise you'd have clubs hovering up youth players and simply farming them out and never let them see the parent club from the inside.

Then a Serbian kid who City bought from Partizan and loaned back straight away counts as homegrown and trained by a club within the FA after three years without ever seeing a training pitch in Manchester? Bollocks.


The whole homegrown rule is bollocks mate. Let a club do whatever it wants with the players it has.

I agree. But FAs in general are an uncreative bunch and can't think of a way to improve youth development other than stifling clubs and forcing them to play, for all intents and purposes, inferior players.
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Re: Angelino - Welcome Back

Postby johnny crossan » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:22 pm

fee just dropped by half


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