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So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

Zinch? Are you sure?

Outcast wrote:
Zinch? Are you sure?

I am turn about him, he spent some time to the EDS before stepping up and we got him really young.

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

Benarbe is still at the club. He's in the generation whose chances will be stifled a bit by Covid, I reckon. He was our top scorer in the UEFA Youth League last season, but the team were eliminated in the group stages, and this season's tournament has been cancelled. So it's just the youth leagues and cups, and the FA Trophy (which he's featured in).

Gomes literally played for the first team 3 weeks ago.

Unal is plying his trade at a mid-table La Liga club. Which isn't bad.

As I posted in the 'Stat Attack' thread a week or so ago, of the 23 Academy players to have made their debut for us in the past decade who are no longer at the club, 10 are currently at clubs in Europe's top 5 leagues, and 2 have retired for non-sporting reasons (Wabara to concentrate on business and Helan to concentrate on religion). That's a pretty decent return for us, and prospects for a player. Even players who never featured for us (Sancho and Trippier being prime examples) have gone on to have more-than-decent careers elsewhere.

Nothing is wrong.

The Academy is going exactly what it's designed to do. Namely turn out a £50+M player(Foden) every so often, who is a first team regular and to provide a few squad players who can fill in on rotation, (Garcia, Doyle,Zinch at a stretch). The rest are to be sold to raise funds. And I'll bet over the last 8 or 9 years or so we've raised a good £100M or close to that in transfer fees. And counting

Delap may fall into the bracket of understudy squad player, we will see. But he will raise the thick end of £10M if he were to move on after hes played a few games for us.

You have to remember we are the best team in England and one of the best teams in Europe, so to get in our side you have to be very decent. You can only really afford one or two places to developing talent depending on the fixture.

Personally I'd like to see the bench being allowed the numbers they are now but with an additional place or two for an EDS player, with maybe an extra substitute allowed for such a player. Then if we are comfortably winning a game we can afford to give them a taste of adult football and see how they get on. This would mean more younger players get minutes and experience

Because these days they have to be one hell of a lot better players to get in than when people were screaming on here for Kelvin Etuhu, as he was our saviour, apparently

If we had 11 academy players in the team we'd be relegated, simple as

nottsblue wrote:And I'll bet over the last 8 or 9 years or so we've raised a good £100M or close to that in transfer fees. And counting

From a quick tally from Wikipedia, £178 million over the past 8 seasons, not including loan fees and counting 'undisclosed' fees as £0. However, we paid fees for some of those players in the first place, so it's not to be considered pure profit (and it only counts our first sale of Angelino).

BlueinBosnia wrote:

nottsblue wrote:And I'll bet over the last 8 or 9 years or so we've raised a good £100M or close to that in transfer fees. And counting

From a quick tally from Wikipedia, £178 million over the past 8 seasons, not including loan fees and counting 'undisclosed' fees as £0. However, we paid fees for some of those players in the first place, so it's not to be considered pure profit (and it only counts our first sale of Angelino).

That's a fairly handsome sum of money

CTID Hants wrote:

BlueinBosnia wrote:

nottsblue wrote:And I'll bet over the last 8 or 9 years or so we've raised a good £100M or close to that in transfer fees. And counting

From a quick tally from Wikipedia, £178 million over the past 8 seasons, not including loan fees and counting 'undisclosed' fees as £0. However, we paid fees for some of those players in the first place, so it's not to be considered pure profit (and it only counts our first sale of Angelino).

That's a fairly handsome sum of money

It is.

And its without doubt a cornerstone of our our business model and the reason for the Academy being in existence the way it is

Some years ago, I questioned our need for an academy at all if no players were going to reach our 1st team.

Then I realised that the job of the CFA was to act as a centre for the whole CFG, the parent company of City and those other clubs around the World.
It acts as a filter through which global talent can be passed through into our group or into the outside football World...all for profit.

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

I made this point on another thread but BiB & NQDP and probably others seem to think our graduates making their way elsewhere as pros is a cause for celebration. Barely a handful have appeared in our first team over the last decade. (Zinch is a product of Youth Sportive School Karpatiya of his native Radomysh, not our Academy btw.) Foden is the only graduate in that time period and Sancho was pretty much the finished article when he arrived from Watford anyway.

johnny crossan wrote:

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

I made this point on another thread but BiB & NQDP and probably others seem to think our graduates making their way elsewhere as pros is a cause for celebration. Barely a handful have appeared in our first team over the last decade. (Zinch is a product of Youth Sportive School Karpatiya of his native Radomysh, not our Academy btw.) Foden is the only graduate in that time period and Sancho was pretty much the finished article when he arrived from Watford anyway.

Yeah, no doubt our academy is making money, but I am worried about the lack of quality.

johnny crossan wrote:

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

I made this point on another thread but BiB & NQDP and probably others seem to think our graduates making their way elsewhere as pros is a cause for celebration. Barely a handful have appeared in our first team over the last decade. (Zinch is a product of Youth Sportive School Karpatiya of his native Radomysh, not our Academy btw.) Foden is the only graduate in that time period and Sancho was pretty much the finished article when he arrived from Watford anyway.

How are we defining graduate?

Our club is at the summit right now, as others have said. Standards change and balancing first team expectations/ambitions, while introducing arguably unknown variables in the form of academy players, becomes a tougher job. What we see is a symptom of that, but also how our club operates. It's no accident we don't take risks (which become larger given our expectations and aspirations) like blooding promising youngsters in games that now have greater impact on our season. When Liverpool finish a single point behind us after a near perfect season... Blooding 3-5 youngsters suddenly becomes bit of a gamble both for their development (insane pressure etc) and the results of the first team. I am not saying they'd throw games, but it would impact the rhythm of an already heavily rotated squad amongst other factors.

The Academy is working, it's only going to continue to establish itself as a prestigious learning centre for footballing excellence. We are an all-inclusive Eton for promising footballers. Other commenters will undoubtedly know more and offer greater and more insightful perspective, but for me I think it's working and I love it.

PeterParker wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

I made this point on another thread but BiB & NQDP and probably others seem to think our graduates making their way elsewhere as pros is a cause for celebration. Barely a handful have appeared in our first team over the last decade. (Zinch is a product of Youth Sportive School Karpatiya of his native Radomysh, not our Academy btw.) Foden is the only graduate in that time period and Sancho was pretty much the finished article when he arrived from Watford anyway.

Yeah, no doubt our academy is making money, but I am worried about the lack of quality.

We’ve had one come through in Foden who is good enough to get into the best team in the land, possibly in all of Europe. The chances of two or three coming through at the same time are slim. Remember how Iheanacho was gonna be a star? A good player, but ultimately not good enough for the champions. There will be more like him in the current and future crops as well and that is quite all right as they bring in funds to pay for genuine world class players.

Though I myself would like to see one or two more as squad players, but when you look at our squad, which is by some way the best there is out there, then you have to be very decent to get a look in. The price of dominance

PeterParker wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

I made this point on another thread but BiB & NQDP and probably others seem to think our graduates making their way elsewhere as pros is a cause for celebration. Barely a handful have appeared in our first team over the last decade. (Zinch is a product of Youth Sportive School Karpatiya of his native Radomysh, not our Academy btw.) Foden is the only graduate in that time period and Sancho was pretty much the finished article when he arrived from Watford anyway.

Yeah, no doubt our academy is making money, but I am worried about the lack of quality.

Don’t think there’s an issue of quality, at least if judged by a UK yardstick. The U18’s won last season’s Youth Cup and currently sit second in their league, level on points but with two games in hand on the leaders, L’pool. The EDS are currently top of PL2 with a five point gap between them and second place. As others have said, the problem for our youngsters is attaining the standard required for one of the best teams in Europe. Even so, having watched quite a few youth games on City+, I think that there’s two or three of the current crop who stand at least an outside chance of making it with us. Besides Tommy Doyle, Taylor H-B and Liam Delap, Cole Palmer looks to have real potential.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

I made this point on another thread but BiB & NQDP and probably others seem to think our graduates making their way elsewhere as pros is a cause for celebration. Barely a handful have appeared in our first team over the last decade. (Zinch is a product of Youth Sportive School Karpatiya of his native Radomysh, not our Academy btw.) Foden is the only graduate in that time period and Sancho was pretty much the finished article when he arrived from Watford anyway.

How are we defining graduate?

This is a really difficult one to determine. For the figures I gave above, it was people classed as 'Academy' by Wikipedia at the time of their transfer, or people I knew had featured for our EDS (or in some cases hadn't featured for our first team), with a few exceptions (like Aaron Mooy, who is listed as an outgoing "EDS, Academy and other" player). Sancho came to us as a 14 year old, and I included him (likewise Gunn, who came to us at 15).

Also, are players who still play for the EDS but have featured for the first team to be considered 'graduates'?

If you're only going to consider people who've been at the club since before their 15th birthday as our Academy's success stories, who do you exclude? Do you describe someone who played for us from under 9 to under 11, but failed to progress past those age groups with us, as a miss/failure?

This is something you could argue about until the cows come home.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

I made this point on another thread but BiB & NQDP and probably others seem to think our graduates making their way elsewhere as pros is a cause for celebration. Barely a handful have appeared in our first team over the last decade. (Zinch is a product of Youth Sportive School Karpatiya of his native Radomysh, not our Academy btw.) Foden is the only graduate in that time period and Sancho was pretty much the finished article when he arrived from Watford anyway.

How are we defining graduate?

in this case I just meant a product of the EDS that ends up in our senior squad. I agree with the OP - we should have had more in there than Foden during the last decade. Our youth set up may be profitable and provide players for other clubs, including those in City Group, but we're well behind our rivals in the home grown stakes..

johnny crossan wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

I made this point on another thread but BiB & NQDP and probably others seem to think our graduates making their way elsewhere as pros is a cause for celebration. Barely a handful have appeared in our first team over the last decade. (Zinch is a product of Youth Sportive School Karpatiya of his native Radomysh, not our Academy btw.) Foden is the only graduate in that time period and Sancho was pretty much the finished article when he arrived from Watford anyway.

How are we defining graduate?

in this case I just meant a product of the EDS that ends up in our senior squad. I agree with the OP - we should have had more in there than Foden during the last decade. Our youth set up may be profitable and provide players for other clubs, including those in City Group, but we're well behind our rivals in the home grown stakes..

Very true. But we are well ahead of them in terms of pots on the sideboard and success over the last decade. Streets ahead

nottsblue wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

johnny crossan wrote:

PeterParker wrote:So, except Phil, Zinch and maybe Garcia, our EDS failed to make their way in our team. Many of them were loaned out where they also failed to impress and are "lost" in small teams.
Of course, there is the case of Sancho, but that is another discussion.

So, what is wrong?
We seem to buy many of the best youths out there really early, but you hear almost nothing from them. Bernabe, Gomes or that young fella, the turkish one, they were all viewed as the next big thing.

Discuss.

I made this point on another thread but BiB & NQDP and probably others seem to think our graduates making their way elsewhere as pros is a cause for celebration. Barely a handful have appeared in our first team over the last decade. (Zinch is a product of Youth Sportive School Karpatiya of his native Radomysh, not our Academy btw.) Foden is the only graduate in that time period and Sancho was pretty much the finished article when he arrived from Watford anyway.

How are we defining graduate?

in this case I just meant a product of the EDS that ends up in our senior squad. I agree with the OP - we should have had more in there than Foden during the last decade. Our youth set up may be profitable and provide players for other clubs, including those in City Group, but we're well behind our rivals in the home grown stakes..

Very true. But we are well ahead of them in terms of pots on the sideboard and success over the last decade. Streets ahead

the two things are not mutually exclusive and everybody would like to see a few more club-trained players names on our honours board.