New Super League

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Re: New Super League

Postby City64 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:15 am

“City were the Trojan horse”

I am fucking loving this .......
Not really here

Fuck VAR
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Re: New Super League

Postby salford city » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:25 am

City64 wrote:“City were the Trojan horse”

I am fucking loving this .......


He is a baaket case. He will have the begging bowl out next if he hasn't done it in private. As imentioned, we should use this as leverage, stay out of our transfers etc alrhough there is nothing for us in that whilst the Spanish dont have a pot to piss in
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Re: New Super League

Postby nottsblue » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:54 am

salford city wrote:
City64 wrote:“City were the Trojan horse”

I am fucking loving this .......


He is a baaket case. He will have the begging bowl out next if he hasn't done it in private. As imentioned, we should use this as leverage, stay out of our transfers etc alrhough there is nothing for us in that whilst the Spanish dont have a pot to piss in

Did we pull the plug on some refinancing for Madrid stadium a few years back? Or am i horribly misremembering?

Might partly explain the hatred Spain has for us
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Re: New Super League

Postby patrickblue » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:00 pm

City64 wrote:“City were the Trojan horse”

I am fucking loving this .......


Me too, I'm wondering just who've been taken for mugs here!

Point is, there has to be six out of the PL to get the voting majority, and City were their last resort.

Mind you, it is a tragedy that Real can't afford to buy the best players anymore, they surely are entitled to.

BTW, that's another sarky remark
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Re: New Super League

Postby johnny crossan » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:26 pm

City64 wrote:“City were the Trojan horse”

I am fucking loving this .......
where's that quote from friend?
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Re: New Super League

Postby Scatman » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:27 pm

salford city wrote:
Mase wrote:
johnny crossan wrote:Just listening to Mike Wedderburn on SSN interviewing the legendary leach Danny Mills. Danny says "the Super League was first 'muted' in 2014" - he's the one who should be permanently muted - 1998 actually. He also reckons Foden isn't playing enough games, Stones' tackle last night was 'seriously dangerous' and Ryan Mason is a tactical genius.


Wedders is a City fan - not sure why he couldn’t just ask Mills, “So how much money did you make by refusing a move from City and just sitting on the bench?”



This for me too. He was a fucking parasite and never fails to stick the boot in. He should be more than grateful at the way he was allowed to run down his contract whilst pocketing the cash. The bald headed gimp


Yeah but what a goal
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Re: New Super League

Postby belleebee » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:03 pm

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
patrickblue wrote:Very interesting article from Perez's statement to the Spanish press.

Amongst other things he says

Perez then stated that one of the six English teams helped turn the tide in discussions with their reluctance to fully buy into the proposals.

"There was someone among the six English teams who didn't have much interest in the Super League and that started affecting the others. It's a team that was never convinced,” he explained.

Who could that have been?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/florentino-perez-hints-super-league-23958716


While I don't believe ANYTHING in Mirror I find it possible that there is some truth here. Maybe.
This is pretty easy to narrow down to three teams since Arsenal, rags and Scousepool had people in executive positions in the introduction of the league. Tottenham are badly in debt and financially needed it, regardless of whether they like it or not. So I'd count them out.

That leaves us and Chelsea. Could be either really as we are both financially stable though obviously both clubs are always looking new streams of revenue. I've gotten the impression in the past, little tiny hints, that big London clubs stick together behind the scenes. And Chelsea have just swallowed their pill on their misconduct cases. We on the other hand, we are only few months removed from that letter to UEFA trying to fuck us over. Spaniards have had the go at us any given chance. In fact I saw somewhere that Agnelli's do some business with our owner so it's very possible that we were actually invited by Agnelli's! Furthermore, our people strike as someone who like to be in charge of fortunes. So my guess actually is that it was us.

If my guess is right we were between two old enemies, G14 and UEFA. Probably played with two cards as well. Judging by the statement coming from UEFA praising us when we drew from it and also forced the whole thing to collapse UEFA decided to take the pill and forget the past and sort of invite us to their inner circle or at least closer to it. Sort of enemy of my enemy is my friend situation.


Further evidence that we were the first to pull out comes in the Guardian, with the following direct quote from Perez: “The one from Manchester saw the campaign saying this will kill the leagues, that it won’t allow [sporting] merit, that it was the end of football.” This followed him being asked directly whether it was City who “weren’t so interested” in the scheme.
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Re: New Super League

Postby Outcast » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:35 pm

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... ty-and-psg

Of course it's our fault lol! I fucking despise this ugly chimp, I really do, truly hate him with passion
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Re: New Super League

Postby nottsblue » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:44 pm

Outcast wrote:https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12283936/european-super-league-la-liga-president-javier-tebas-calls-for-greater-financial-controls-on-clubs-like-man-city-and-psg

Of course it's our fault lol! I fucking despise this ugly chimp, I really do, truly hate him with passion

Very very rarely wish ill of people, especially those I’ve never met. But this fucker. I’d gladly see him suffer greatly
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Re: New Super League

Postby carolina-blue » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:22 pm

nottsblue wrote:
Outcast wrote:https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12283936/european-super-league-la-liga-president-javier-tebas-calls-for-greater-financial-controls-on-clubs-like-man-city-and-psg

Of course it's our fault lol! I fucking despise this ugly chimp, I really do, truly hate him with passion

Very very rarely wish ill of people, especially those I’ve never met. But this fucker. I’d gladly see him suffer greatly


And This fat twat has a position in Uefa no wonder we were looking at another league , agree with above wish him nothing but Ill
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Re: New Super League

Postby johnny crossan » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:04 am

a sordid story - which isn't over yet

Tension, suspicion and plotting – what happened after the collapse of the Super League
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Adam Crafton and more Oct 18, 2021 53

Against the backdrop of the mountain-lined views of Lake Geneva, the President Wilson Hotel in Switzerland formed a formidable location for last month’s summit meeting of the European Club Association. This was the setting for European football’s most wealthy and powerful, where they sought to rebuild relations after the sport descended into all-out war earlier this year.

On Sunday, April 18, a dozen of Europe’s most famous football clubs announced a plan to launch a Super League, in which a new midweek competition would be established. Although the league was registered officially as the European Super League company, the trading name was and remains The Super League, suggesting room had been left for participants from outside that continent at a future date.

The 12 founder members were Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham Hotspur from England, as well as Real Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico Madrid from Spain, plus Juventus, AC Milan and Inter Milan from Italy. A statement, issued after 11pm UK time on that Sunday evening, stated that three further clubs would join as founder members ahead of its inaugural campaign. The Super League 12 — described by critics as the Dirty Dozen — anticipated a public announcement and behind-the-scenes negotiations would force Paris Saint-Germain, Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund to join the group, which would ensure representation from the sport’s five most popular domestic leagues.

As we know, the plot failed, spectacularly blowing up in the faces of its architects, as criticism poured in from politicians, broadcasters, pundits, coaches, players and even Prince William, the future king of the United Kingdom.

This is the story of what happened next; of the mistrust that developed between some of the 12 and the leagues they play in, and the political manoeuvring behind the scenes as clubs jostle for power, money and influence.

We will explain:

How leagues are now keeping a closer eye on the Super League 12 than ever before
Tensions between Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain
Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus’ determination that sceptical fans can be won round
Suspicions that the 12 Super League sides are cooking up new plans
The continued divide between “legacy clubs” and those with new money
As the Super League clubs conspired, they did not expect their plan to culminate in the resignation of Manchester United’s executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward. Nor did they foresee public and private complaints from key players, or the postponement of a Premier League fixture between United and Liverpool following sustained supporter protest outside and then inside Old Trafford on the original match day. And absolutely they did not predict how, only five months on, they would be the red-faced recipients of a humiliating lecture in ethics from PSG president Nasser Al-Khelaifi — a man they have long considered as one of the sources of football’s ills.

Over the past decade, hostility developed among the group of old-school aristocrats of European football — traditional powerhouses such as Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus and AC Milan, as well as the American-owned English clubs. The predominant source of the angst is the new-money or state-backed spending of clubs such as Manchester City and Paris Saint-Germain. Newcastle United’s subsequent Saudi takeover, confirmed last week, will only enhance these worries.
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Manchester United fans were furious at the Super League proposal (Photo: James Gill – Danehouse/Getty Images)
Media reports may cover complaints about alleged human rights violations in the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Saudi Arabia but in the corridors of European power, different fears grew more acutely. The major worry was that clubs such as Real Madrid, Milan and Liverpool may find themselves unable to compete without taking serious steps to restrict the spending power of the new upstarts. There were UEFA punishments, at times, for City and PSG over alleged breaches of financial fair play, but this rarely constituted enough in the green eyes of their rivals.

When the Super League came along, these “legacy” clubs eyed an opportunity to level the playing field.

City, along with Chelsea, were long-term sceptics of a Super League but as the train left the station, a fear of being left behind overpowered their instincts. They jumped on board. Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli and Real Madrid president Florentino Perez expected the official unveiling of the Super League to put such fear and anxiety into PSG that they would have no choice but to join the party, too.

But PSG did not. Instead, Al-Khelaifi, along with Bayern and Dortmund, read the wider mood and resisted. Not only that, but the French club subsequently sensed opportunity amid football’s financial crisis that originated in reckless spending but was exacerbated by the pandemic.

In the subsequent summer transfer window, PSG prised key players away from Liverpool, Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan and Inter Milan while refusing to sell their star player Kylian Mbappe to Real Madrid, even when an offer exceeding £160 million landed on their table. And off the field, Al-Khelaifi contrived to become the most powerful executive in club football.

The 12 clubs resigned their positions at both UEFA and the European Club Association (ECA) upon signing up to the Super League and all except for Juventus, Real Madrid and Barcelona returned to the organisations with their tails between their legs following the collapse. At the European Championship final between England and Italy in July, British prime minister Boris Johnson is even said to have approached Al-Khelaifi in Wembley’s smart seats, eager to recognise the roles the former felt they had both played in preventing the Super League from coming to fruition.

In the ECA meeting suite last month, Al-Khelaifi chastised what he described as the “not-so-Super League”. He mocked “fabulists and failures”. He referred to the plot as a “midnight coup”.

In Switzerland, attention was paid to those who attended but also those who were missing. Football’s world governing body, FIFA, had senior representation in FIFA council member Hany Abo Rida but its president Gianni Infantino was a notable absentee, particularly as reports have emerged suggesting FIFA may have been more sympathetic to the Super League than suggested by the statement it released on the Monday morning after its unveiling.

Several sources pointed to jokes going around the room at last month’s summit, teasing that Infantino may even have prepared a speech either way on his Super League position, depending on the public response to the plan. FIFA, for its part, insists it is false and misleading to say Infantino was in two minds and points to the speech he gave two days after the announcement, on April 20, in which he insisted FIFA strongly disapproved.

At the ECA summit, the room tuned in to an Infantino video address, described by one critic as a “Kofi Annan-style, ‘I am going to save the world’ speech”. FIFA says he missed the meeting as he had prior engagements elsewhere and that the current world is accepting of video attendance in any case. As we know, Infantino is focusing on a consultation period to introduce a World Cup every two years, rather than the traditional four, an idea that is opposed by the ECA. This is despite a meeting where Infantino attempted to convince Al-Khelaifi of that plan’s merits.

At the ECA, it would previously have been unusual for figures such as Premier League chief executive Richard Masters to attend, yet he was present along with his counterparts from Germany’s Bundesliga, Ligue 1 in France and Italy’s Serie A. Javier Tebas, chairman of La Liga in Spain, missed the actual meeting, but was in Geneva that week to show his support.

The sentiment from all of these domestic-league figures is that they simply must keep a sharp eye on the former Super League club executives to avoid any repeat attempts. The six Premier League clubs were fined a combined £22 million by their rivals in England and will be fined a further £25 million each if they attempt another breakaway.

Representatives from each of the Premier League’s Big Six took their seats in Geneva, listening in as the room united around their perceived treachery. Woodward, on his way out at Manchester United, was not present. Hemen Tseayo, head of corporate finance, represented the Old Trafford club instead. Chelsea chairman Bruce Buck, Arsenal chief executive Vinai Venkatesham, Liverpool chief executive Billy Hogan, Manchester City CEO Ferran Soriano and Tottenham executive Rebecca Caplehorn had all flown to Switzerland.

Mistrust lingers, both towards the Big Six and within the group, but Venkatesham is said to have done the most to re-establish positive relations, while Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy earned election as the Premier League’s representative on the ECA board. He beat Soriano despite a two-page pitch by the City CEO. Chelsea were the only English club to support Soriano’s bid, despite frosty relations between certain personnel at those two clubs.

In Spain, the leading clubs Barcelona and Real Madrid are not falling into line so easily, and neither are Juventus in Italy. Those three remain engaged in legal action under the Super League umbrella. It has so far managed to deter UEFA from picking up the €15m goodwill payments it originally “agreed” as punishments for the nine clubs who dropped out of the Super League, while Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus all remain committed to the project but have not been barred from competing in UEFA’s competitions.
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One critic of the three clubs compared it to “Donald Trump after the American 2020 presidential election” — going round and attempting to overturn the inevitable outcome. Critics argue any legal result will ultimately not matter as the plan is doomed anyway in the court of public opinion.

Yet the Super League project is still fighting. Those three rebels believe the same key issues remain; notably, too many disinteresting matches in the existing European competitions and a competitive imbalance, in their view, created by state-supported clubs. There is also a genuine belief among the remaining Super League clubs that supporters are not as opposed to it as the media has portrayed. They cite data from late last year that allegedly showed 80 per cent of Spanish supporters to be advocates of such a plan, while they note that the level of opposition in England was not reflected in Spain and Italy.

“We are simply happy for Madrid’s president Florentino Perez to bang on about it forever,” quipped one sceptic, while the Super League has even become known as “FloreLeague” in some quarters.

As the Premier League clubs scuttled about for relevance, PSG’s Al-Khelaifi took aim at Juventus, Real Madrid and Barcelona. Addressing the room, he said: “While the three rebel clubs waste energy, twist narratives and continue to shout at the sky, the rest of us are moving forward and focusing every energy on building a better future for European football.”

He set out new principles for these summit meetings, declaring there would be “no closed sessions” — a bid to avoid future plotting. He spoke of a “united football family”.

Peace on the horizon? Don’t count on it.

As one source says: “There is a lot of double talk, double face; people that say one thing publicly and then privately do differently.”

To understand the future, we must return to the past.

In the week leading up to the Super League’s announcement in April, European football appeared unified. Both UEFA and the ECA appeared to have agreed and signed off on a commitment to support proposals for a reformed Champions League, which would change the model to 36 teams from the current 32. At an ECA meeting early in that week, in which Super League clubs were represented by figures such as Agnelli, Woodward and Real Madrid vice-chairman Pedro Lopez Jimenez, most of those on the video conference appeared relieved and content. These reforms had required almost two years of painstaking work.

Perhaps most strangely, when set against what happened next, Europe’s leading clubs appeared to be benefiting from the changes.

UEFA was coming closer to accepting a significant change to how the Champions League is broadcast and marketed. For over 25 years, UEFA had worked exclusively with a Swiss-based marketing firm called TEAM, which performed commercial duties for UEFA’s club competitions. Europe’s elite, however, resented this model as they are accustomed to having a greater say over business matters in their domestic leagues. Since Al-Khelaifi became ECA president, these plans have been accelerated and, in his first meeting with UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin, he secured sign-off for this change that the larger clubs believe will earn them more money.

Additionally, the elite clubs had secured an additional two places, outside of usual qualification through a domestic league finish, which would allow clubs to qualify for the Champions League based on their UEFA co-efficient over the previous five seasons.

Following the failure of the Super League, however, it is still to be confirmed whether these positions will remain, as it creates the perception of a closed shop, where access is granted more on the name of a club than recent performance. However, as things stand, no alternatives have been suggested.

Yet the concessions secured in April were deemed insufficient. The Super League clubs craved more.

By the pivotal Thursday and Friday in April, the final two Premier League clubs, Chelsea and Manchester City, fell into line with the Super League plan and across Europe, particularly in the Premier League, the whispers and suspicion began to grow. Executives called one another, each time hearing little clues, but unable to form the full picture.

By the Saturday, the key players had gone to ground. UEFA chief Ceferin would later describe Woodward and Agnelli as “snakes” for their parts in the perceived deceit. Agnelli simply turned his phone off, despite repeated calls from Ceferin, a man he had previously named as the godfather of his daughter. Ceferin later told German magazine Der Spiegel: “It was an honour for me when he asked me back then. Obviously, I made a mistake with him and misjudged him. After all, the Super League thing showed that closeness wasn’t a consideration. Agnelli and I are (now) as far apart as we can be.”

On the Sunday, The Times in the UK and The New York Times reported a Super League plan was in motion and that an announcement was likely to be made the very same day.

At 4pm, the ECA called an emergency board meeting. Those Super League club executives, such as Agnelli, Jimenez and Woodward, did not dial in. It was left to Edwin van der Sar, chief executive of Ajax, to chair the meeting. Perhaps one moment of lightness came when Inter Milan director Steven Zhang momentarily dialled into the video conference, despite his club having signed up to the Super League. He was spotted on the screen and his peers immediately wanted to know what on earth he had signed up to. He swiftly logged off, adding to the confusion.

The ECA, whose job it is to lobby UEFA on behalf of their clubs, was left in a perilous position.

Some clubs even suspected that key non-club executives at the ECA may have been in on the Super League plans but this was not the case. Instead, they made a plan to mobilise.

Bayern Munich executive Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, a former ECA chairman, stepped up. One ECA source describes the German, as well as Al-Khelaifi, as “absolute rocks” during those fateful few days. Indeed, some in European football circles even suspect that clubs not included in the Super League (many of whom outlined their public opposition) may have made discreet enquiries during that turbulent time to see if they could find a way into the list of invitees.

Behind the scenes, the Super League 12 continued to lobby PSG and Bayern. There were bold warnings, cautions that they would be left in the slipstream of their rivals. Real Madrid president Perez had previously travelled to Paris to try to convince Al-Khelaifi but he had been unsuccessful.

The motivation behind Al-Khelaifi’s refusal is contested.

He did not have a particular individual loyalty to Ceferin — the pair had rarely been close and indeed had sparred over financial fair play (FFP) cases. In addition, PSG’s revenue streams were severely damaged by the collapse of the domestic French television rights deal. As such, Al-Khelaifi’s critics argue that his leadership of BeIN Media may have dictated the stance he took against the Super League. This is because the Qatar-based broadcaster holds contracts worth hundreds of millions to show European domestic leagues and UEFA competitions across the world. These rights would have been severely devalued if a Super League had been formed.

Sources close to Al-Khelaifi, however, counter that while he had no particular loyalty to Ceferin, he did feel he should be faithful to the institutions of UEFA and ECA, where he held senior positions.
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Nasser Al-Khelaifi, right, and Paris Saint-Germain said no to the Super League, then signed players from several of its prospective clubs this summer – including Barcelona’s Lionel Messi (Photo: Sebastien Muylaert/Getty Images)
Additionally, he has privately claimed that he still, to this day, considers his first European fixture as PSG chairman as one of the highlights of his tenure. This was a home fixture against Austrian side Red Bull Salzburg in the group stage of the Europa League in 2011. It may seem insignificant to most, yet he apparently reflected on this moment when contemplating the Super League. A source explained: “It brought home to him that PSG’s journey would be almost impossible to repeat, as the 15 founder clubs would have been locked into a 20-team competition.”

What we do know, however, is that both PSG and Bayern were privy to Super League conversations at some point in the years leading up to the announcement. Indeed, leaked paperwork revealed that some versions of the plan even included proposed joining dates for both clubs.

And it would be unusual, given the stakes, for either club not to even consider the approach. In the case of Bayern, some rival clubs mischievously speculate that their hierarchy were more tempted than is publicly known. But Bayern’s leaders were bound by a 2016 commitment of the advisory board not to join any Super League. Dortmund, meanwhile, were never likely to jump onto the train unless Bayern did so first.

On the Monday in Switzerland, Al-Khelaifi and Ceferin embraced. A source recalls: “Their first hug was for Nasser to say, ‘I am standing by you’.” The second hug, on the following day, came once it became clear the plot had fallen apart.

Al-Khelaifi’s new golden-child status was inconceivable only six months ago. Indeed, for some conspiracy theorists, it almost appears to be a master plan to undo the Super League, expose the financial precarity of his rivals and pick off their best players.

The reality is less polished, much as allies of Al-Khelaifi would love to claim he had conceived a Machiavellian plot to rule European football. Instead, they say, he made a sound judgement and then maximised the opportunities that ensued.

At the ECA, a replacement for Agnelli became required. Rummenigge was a former chairman of the body and was due to retire from his role at Bayern at the end of the 2020-21 season (he turned 66 this month). Ajax’s Van der Sar is highly-rated but lacks the clout of a club, such as PSG, who regularly compete at the very highest level of the Champions League. Al-Khelaifi first turned down the role, citing his multiple other jobs, not only at PSG but also at BeIN Media Group and with the Qatar Tennis Federation. Dr Michael Gerlinger has represented Bayern on the ECA executive board since 2017 but his role as director of legal affairs at his club made it unlikely he would be a contender for ECA chairmanship.

As PSG and Bayern’s rivals ceded status and influence, the two 2020 Champions League finalists formed a new power axis at the top of both UEFA and the ECA. Bayern received the ECA’s “Chairman’s Award” for their “exceptional leadership and commitment to European football”. Al-Khelaifi and Gerlinger posed together for a photo.

Behind the scenes, however, the truce is uneasy, to put it lightly. Bayern have been long-term critics of PSG’s spending patterns and the two clubs do not share the same view on the future of financial restrictions in European competition. Bayern would, ideally, like a reformed version of FFP that regulates via a salary cap and strong punishments for breaches.

PSG are among the clubs more supportive of a luxury-tax arrangement, whereby those who compete in UEFA competitions are limited to spending a set percentage of revenue on salaries, expected to be around 70 per cent. Those who exceed this cap would then be expected to pay a tax, where any overspend is redistributed to clubs across Europe. This, critics argue, could be open to abuse by extremely wealthy owners who do not mind paying the tax to achieve their broader ambitions.

Critics of the former version of FFP counter that it served to prevent clubs outside the established elite from investing ambitiously in the transfer market.

The hostility between PSG and Bayern was only heightened when Al-Khelaifi became unhappy after Bayern chairman Herbert Hainer said on a podcast that he was trying to understand how PSG’s investment into Lionel Messi, an expensive free agent after Barcelona were unable to re-sign him when his contract expired this summer, would “go along” with FFP.

The likely outcome is that the luxury tax wins the day, while it remains possible that a top cap figure may also be included to ease concerns about how clubs such as PSG, Manchester City, Chelsea and now Newcastle could benefit from spending their owners’ untold riches.

Ceferin, for his part, wants a level of tax that disincentivises extortionate spending.

He told German media’s Der Spiegel: “In future, we should speak of competitive balance rather than FFP. If they exceed a limit, they have to pay a kind of tax that is redistributed to other clubs. This tax should be very, very high. If the rule is that a club can only spend €300 million, but it becomes €500 million, then it might have to pay another €200 million to go to the others. That has to be a robust set of rules. Nothing has been decided yet.”

In the Premier League, the Big Six are struggling to regain the trust of their rivals, employees and supporters. Even within the Big Six, some suspect others may still be plotting, despite public denials.

Over many years, the six clubs grew increasingly close, hunkering down in little groups at meetings. In 2019, the six organised a study by a major consultancy firm to appraise the growth of Premier League broadcasting rights deals. Manchester United, it is said, were the club always most keen to participate in joint research projects, easily securing approval for six-figure funding contributions, while Tottenham and Arsenal could be a little more frugal. The main thrust of the consultancy report was that the growth story of the 2010s “had been exhausted”, according to one well-placed source, “which led some of us to recognise a heightened necessity of a project such as the Super League”.

For some owners, therefore, joining the Super League was about the short-term injection of funds to offset losses caused by the COVID-19 pandemic but also around their projected exit strategy. These clubs, remember, are now valued into the billions.


Ed Woodward resigned at Manchester United after working with owners the Glazers on the Super League plan (Photo: Nick Potts/PA Images via Getty Images)
A well-placed source close to one Big Six club explains: “This would have been the best way out for the American owners at these clubs. They receive their valuation and they get this growth story with the Super League. Think about it. If you have worked for decades to be a billionaire, does it make sense to put your money into an asset where there is no obvious growth? Investors are also increasingly unwilling to buy clubs and put them in debt, as you get shit from fans. The Super League was the opportunity to change that problem and pump the value. Once the American owners sensed stagnation in the television market and the threat to the asset caused by COVID-19, they pulled the trigger.”

The clubs were braced, to an extent, for criticism. After all, United and Liverpool had received a backlash when they unveiled Project Big Picture previously. Those two have had a long-term engagement over reducing the size of the 20-club Premier League to 18 clubs, as has already happened in France’s Ligue 1 and is under consideration in Italy’s Serie A, while the leading clubs share a long-held desire to remove the Carabao Cup from the calendar.

A source explains: “They always presumed a baseline of pushback for any of these plans, but they never foresaw scenes like the ones at Chelsea or the ones at Old Trafford when the game against Liverpool was postponed. They would have been embarrassed that somebody so close to home, like Sir Alex Ferguson, who never criticises the owners, publicly dumped on the plan. Ed Woodward had been hearing from Gary Neville for years, so that would not have bothered him so much, but Sir Alex? (When that happens) You say to yourself, ‘We have done something wrong of the highest order here’.”

All six clubs have made pledges of increased fan representation — although their pledges have been met with cynicism — and perhaps most remarkably, United’s co-owner Joel Glazer attended two fans’ forums after over a decade of silence from the club’s American ownership. United have also pledged to create a fan advisory board and interviews are currently ongoing for places on it.

Tottenham are awaiting the UK government’s fan-led review before pressing on with their plans to reform but the club’s supporters trust has claimed that chairman Levy recently refused a meeting to discuss concerns. Arsenal fans, meanwhile, pin their hopes on reported interest in the club by Spotify owner Daniel Ek, amid ongoing concerns about the approach taken by current owners the Kroenke family. For Chelsea and Manchester City, rebuilding was more straightforward considering the overall popularity of their owners among supporters, while Liverpool are creating a supporters’ board with the promise of fan representation over strategic decisions.

The previous lack of communication and engagement by owners of Premier League clubs is, ironically, one of the reasons the Super League is deemed to have failed in the eyes of its architects. “You can’t win an election without going on a campaign trail,” noted one Super League advocate, before pointing out the lack of contenders to sell the Super League vision to English football supporters.

The vacuum was filled by opponents on the TV screens, airwaves and streets of England.

In a Premier League meeting following the Super League unveiling, which the six breakaway clubs did not attend, Everton chairman Bill Kenwright at one point began quoting William Shakespeare and later said, “We’re all in the Twilight Zone now!” Brighton CEO Paul Barber read out the content of a call with Levy from that morning, where the Tottenham chief executive insisted the six had to act.

The 14 remaining clubs left the main Premier League shareholders WhatsApp group and formed their own one. They remain suspicious. Indeed, one executive present at a Premier League shareholders meeting held since the Super League told The Athletic that “the Big Six do not even look at the little clubs. It remains an ‘us versus them’ mentality.”

As one source close to UEFA concludes: “These directors are subdued rather than defeated. The trick is to find common ground, where everyone is pissed off to the same level.”

(Other contributors: Matt Slater, Oliver Kay, Raphael Honigstein, James Horncastle, David Ornstein. Top image: Sam Richardson)
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Re: New Super League

Postby stevefromdonny » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:05 pm

what pisses me off, is that the six in England got fined and Madrid Barca and Juve would be out of champs LG if they didn't also said they were out, I know we all got our money back but those 3 teams are still saying they're in it, but still in champs LG, you can moan but you just know who the biggest teams are in champs lg as uefa would never ban them,
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Re: New Super League

Postby patrickblue » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:33 pm

stevefromdonny wrote:what pisses me off, is that the six in England got fined and Madrid Barca and Juve would be out of champs LG if they didn't also said they were out, I know we all got our money back but those 3 teams are still saying they're in it, but still in champs LG, you can moan but you just know who the biggest teams are in champs lg as uefa would never ban them,


Real and Barca officials could be filmed handing brown envelopes to match officials before the game (wouldn't be surprised if they already have) and UEFA would try to cover it up.
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Re: New Super League

Postby Dimples » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:18 pm

New proposal for a Super League emerging from Germany.
You qualify from your domestic league, two divisions with 20 teams in each, etc....

Sounds like the end of the road for the CL.
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Re: New Super League

Postby Beefymcfc » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:23 pm

Are we up and running yet?

Just another cartel masterclass for making money, fuck the sport.
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Re: New Super League

Postby Beefymcfc » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:25 pm

Did I say, it’s here and here to stay, as long as they make money.

I’m fucked, the Bloods went bust under Dave ‘The Rag’ Pace, and had fuck all to do with FFP.
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Re: New Super League

Postby johnny crossan » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:10 pm

Dimples wrote:New proposal for a Super League emerging from Germany.
You qualify from your domestic league, two divisions with 20 teams in each, etc....

Sounds like the end of the road for the CL.

More info please
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Re: New Super League

Postby johnny crossan » Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:21 am

The rag version of the story
Explained: Manchester United, the Glazers and £660m of debt
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NEW YORK, NY - AUGUST 10: In this handout photo provided by the NYSE Euronext, Manchester United Executives Joel Glazer (2nd L) and Avram Glazer (C) and Ed Woodward prepare to ring the Opening Bell at the New York Stock Exchange on August 10, 2012 in New York City. Manchester United shares started trading at USD 14.05 at the opening of the New York Stock Exchange. (Photo Dario Cantatore/Getty Images via NYSE Euronext)
By Matt Slater 3h ago 44

Benjamin Franklin, American history’s equivalent of the utility player, once said he would rather go to bed without dinner than rise in debt.
It is not a philosophy the Glazer family would appear to share — they have been tucking in on credit at Old Trafford since 2005.

For some, the debt they placed on Manchester United when they bought the club is, like Franklin, old news — a figure from another age, an irrelevance.

For others, it is an insult, the reason they walked out on the club and why United lag behind Liverpool’s six Champions League titles and go into Saturday’s derby against Manchester City as underdogs.

Can both of these views be right? Yes… no… maybe. The safest answer is probably to say it depends on who is asking, as football has long since moved into the realms of big business, where one man’s fortune is another’s rounding error.

But safe is boring, so here is an attempt to explain why the best-supported and highest-earning football club in the country has half a billion pounds of debt sitting on its balance sheet, what that does to their overall finances and whether it really matters.

First, some history: how did United get into so much debt?

Three letters: LBO.

LB-what? Leveraged buyout. Nothing to do with cricket.

Big in corporate America in the 1980s, LBOs gatecrashed English football’s cosy ownership party in 2003, when US entrepreneur Malcolm Glazer started buying shares in United. In many ways, the surprise here is it took this long for an aggressive investor to make this move, as the club listed on the London stock market in 1991 so was, by definition, for sale.

Buyouts are leveraged when the purchaser uses a significant amount of borrowed money to fund the acquisition. Nothing particularly unusual about that — it is how most of us buy our homes — but the controversial aspect of an LBO is the borrowing is usually secured on the purchased company’s assets (again, a bit like your home) and the purchased company pays the interest (not like your home, unless you live in a house of ill repute).

When Glazer bought his first wedge of United shares in March 2003, spending about £9 million on a 2.9 per cent stake, the club was on its way to an eighth Premier League title in 11 seasons and had cash in the bank without debt.

By the time he completed his hostile takeover, just over two years later, the club was £660 million in debt, with half of that borrowing placed on the club itself and the other half on his takeover vehicle, Red Football. The split was pretty academic, though, as Manchester United were paying the interest and that bill was enormous.

In 2006, the club’s interest payments totalled £113 million, against annual revenue of £168 million. Over the next four years, United paid an average of £95 million a year in interest, which meant more than a third of the club’s total earnings were being taken to service the debt Glazer and his children had used to buy the club.

This was clearly alarming and some fans voted with their feet to form a new club, FC United of Manchester, as they wanted no part in an exercise in financial engineering that profited one family in Florida. But the vast majority stayed.

In fact, Old Trafford was expanded by 8,000 seats in the immediate aftermath of the takeover and record attendances settled in to watch Sir Alex Ferguson’s side win the 2008 Champions League, the 2009 Club World Cup, three League Cups and five more league titles.

In 2010, the Glazers were finally able to take the sting out of those debt repayments, too.

Malcolm Glazer had needed some eye-wateringly expensive loans to get over the hump in 2005, and these payment-in-kind (PIK) loans ended up in the hands of three hedge funds: Citadel, Och-Ziff Capital Management and Perry Capital. The interest on these loans ramped up from 14.25 per cent to 16.25 per cent, and United’s total debts were now over £700 million.

But five years after the takeover, the Glazers were able to refinance via a £500 million issue of bonds — debt securities that banks, individual investors or pension funds buy at an agreed interest rate and an agreed term. In United’s case, this interest was about 8.5 per cent, cutting the bill in half, and the term was seven years.

So, the team was winning and the debt was under control: furore over?

No, far from it.

The arrival of Roman Abramovich at Chelsea and Sheikh Mansour on the other side of Manchester had changed the game in terms of transfer spending and wage bills. United, for so long England’s biggest gun, were now in an arms race and many fans thought it was doing so with one arm tied behind its back.

Ferguson’s genius as a team-builder, and loyalty as a company man, kept the lid from coming off but discontent simmered while the Glazers refinanced the debt with the bond issue.

The first significant challenge to their ownership emerged in the shape of the Red Knights, a loose consortium of wealthy United fans who wanted to team up with the wider fanbase and buy the Americans out.

By March 2010, the Manchester United Supporters Trust had reached 125,000 members and United fans had turned a popular commemorative kit — green and gold, the same colours worn by the club when it was founded as Newton Heath in 1878 — into the uniform of a revolution.


David Beckham wears a green and gold scarf after the Champions League match between Manchester United and AC Milan in 2010. (Photo: Andrew Yates/AFP via Getty Images)
But Ferguson kept winning and the Glazers kept their nerve. And by the summer of 2012, the owners pulled off their second great refinancing trick, floating a chunk of the club’s shares on the New York Stock Exchange. This raised about £150 million, half of which the Glazers banked, half of which they used to take the takeover debt down to under £400 million.

And that, bar fluctuations in the dollar/pound exchange rate and some recent short-term borrowing to cover COVID-19 costs, is where the Glazer debt, that great millstone, has remained, gradually becoming less and less significant in financial terms, while losing none of its symbolic power.

If it is so insignificant, why don’t they pay it off?

Well, the Glazers would flip that on its head and say it is because it is so insignificant that they do not need to pay it off.

They and their financial advisors — the most famous of whom is Ed Woodward, who went from advising Malcolm Glazer on the takeover in his role at JP Morgan to running the club for Glazer’s children — would point out that when you earn more than £600 million in a good year, who cares if you are paying out less than £30 million in interest?

They would also say the reason United are earning that much money these days is that the Glazers brought with them a more commercial approach to running a professional sports outfit since Malcolm had bought the NFL’s Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1995 and, well, Americans are just better at this kind of thing anyway.

Is this true? Maybe. United have always been a good sandwich board and the Glazers’ predecessors were doing a pretty decent job at turning them into a superstore, but the club’s business model has changed under their ownership. It is a model every club not owned by an oligarch or Gulf state wants to emulate.

In 2005, United’s annual turnover was just under £159 million, with the largest slice (£66 million) coming on match days. Commercial revenue was £45 million.

In 2019, the year the club earned a record £627 million, match-day receipts had nearly doubled to £111 million, but commercial revenue had grown by 600 per cent to £275 million. That figure alone is over £100 million more than any club outside the Premier League’s “big six” earns in total.

“An LBO is a great way to make money if the value of the business goes up,” explains Kieran Maguire, a lecturer on football finance at the University of Liverpool and the man behind the popular Price of Football podcast.

“United had £6 million in the bank and no debt when the original deal took place. The lenders provided about £600 million of the cost of the acquisition. The club is now worth, in my opinion, at least £2.6 billion and the debt is still £500 million, which leaves more than £2 billion for the shareholders and a 2,000 per cent return on investment.

“Initially, the interest rates were high, peaking at 16.25 per cent, which reflected the risk in the eyes of the bank. But as the revenues have increased, so the risk level has fallen and the debt now is a non-issue. The banks get a guaranteed £20 million in interest every year and the Glazers can kick the can down the road in terms of the capital payments.”

Roger Bell of financial analysis firm Vysyble agrees.

“According to the last set of annual accounts (the year ending June 30, 2021), Manchester United’s cost base was £538 million,” says Bell.

“If they were to knock five per cent off that by repaying the debt, it’s peanuts in the overall scheme of things. I’m not excusing them but it’s just not going to move the needle.”

This is the same argument the Glazers’ supporters — OK, people on the payroll — make when questions are asked about the biannual dividends they have been paying themselves since 2016, and the reaction to them from fans is similar to the anger the interest payments still illicit.

As Dr Dan Plumley, a sports finance expert at Sheffield Hallam University, puts it: “The latest £23 million dividends has been defended by the owners as it is a very small percentage of overall revenue and therefore doesn’t hurt the business model of the club or the ability to spend.

“This is true but it still riles the fans, as they see that as £23 million that should be reinvested into their football club. United are also the only club in the Premier League to pay dividends to their shareholders, so the anger grows as it is not the ‘norm’ in English football.

“That said, United have still spent big on players in recent years and the brand has gone from strength to strength.”

So, the Glazers are right, then?

They are certainly right that it has been right for them!

They have taken out more than £120 million in dividends over the last five years, on top of consultancy fees and soft loans in the early years, and now the siblings are starting to sell significant chunks of their shares.

In March, Avram Glazer sold £70 million of shares, and last month his brothers Kevin and Edward sold similar stakes, bringing in almost £140 million… for them, not United. And the family still owns nearly 70 per cent of the total shares and all of the all-important class B shares, which are worth 10 votes for every class A share. The club is a private cashpoint for the Glazers at this point.

But what about the other shareholders? How have they got on? And what do they think about the debt?

Bell points out that United’s share price in December 2014, almost seven years ago, was $15.90 (£11.77) and, as I write this sentence, it is $15.93. Three cents better, an improvement of 0.02 per cent. If you had invested in a fund that tracked the entire S&P 500 index, you would be 130 per cent better off now.

“That means the combined wisdom of millions of investors, who do this every day, have looked at Manchester United and decided they just don’t fancy it,” says Bell.

“Now, this is either because they think United’s management team has a poor strategy and they’re not on the right track, or they think football is a bad place to generate a decent return.

“My personal view is it is more of the latter than the former. But when you look at what has happened since Ferguson left, see Phil Jones still there on a big contract, Paul Pogba potentially leaving for nothing and £200 million of talent sitting on the bench against Atalanta, well, you can sympathise with the former, too.”

The real problem for United, or any other listed football club, however, is not debt. It is costs.

“The Glazers will always point to the debt not being an issue as long as it is serviceable and the share sales continue to be attractive,” says Plumley.

“I have always expected them, and still do, to sell at some point and exit almost as quickly as they arrived. The question remains as to what value they want to sell at. I’ve seen rumours of the marker being $10 billion, or £7 billion, but with a current market capitalisation of just over £3 billion, that’s a long way off.


Avram Glazer (centre) in a rare appearance at Old Trafford (Photo: Martin Rickett/PA Images via Getty Images)
“With the domestic broadcasting rights fixed for another three years and no immediate plans to grow Old Trafford, a lot of that growth would again have to come commercially, or through the creation of — dare I say? — a European Super League (ESL).

“We will see that come back around but the clubs have been appeased to some extent with the revamped Champions League and the promise of more say in how the commercial rights of that competition are packaged. That, of course, is also all well and good if you qualify for the competition.”

Well, quite, but the point about the ESL is relevant.

Most fans and pundits were outraged by that proposal — and protests by United fans led to the postponement of a league game against Liverpool in May — but most of the anger was focused on the huge sums of money the founding clubs wanted to lock in for themselves and not what was in the small print: a ceasefire to that arms race for talent.


Manchester United fans protest the idea of the Super League (Photo: Christopher Furlong/Getty Images)
The Glazers, Liverpool’s owners Fenway Sports Group and Arsenal owner Stanley Kroenke also run professional sports teams in North America, where it is not considered a result to only share 60 per cent of your revenue with the playing talent. That way lies puny profits.

Whether the ESL has been defeated by fan power or just postponed is debatable, but what is certain is that the Glazers, and their like-minded friends in boardrooms elsewhere, are determined to keep sweating their assets while driving down costs.

What about the debt?

Oh, yeah, that. No, they do not care about that at all.

Not while interest rates are at historic lows, they can offset the debt against profits to reduce tax liabilities and people are still buying tickets, special-edition shirts and pay-TV subscriptions.

If anything, the debt could get substantially bigger.

One of the by-products of the outpouring of anger caused by the ESL is that the Glazers have been forced to admit that Old Trafford is, to put it politely, at the tired end of its investment cycle. Or, to put it less politely, is a shabby stadium with holes in the roof, flat beer, awful wi-fi, stains in the carpet and a mediocre kitchen.

Now, they are very unlikely to sign off on the type of “knock it down and start again” approach taken by Tottenham recently or Everton right now. There is also nobody queuing up to build them a new home, a stroke of fortune Manchester City and West Ham have enjoyed.

What is far more likely is United will copy the example set by their fierce rivals (but corporate soulmates) Liverpool: incremental improvement, one stand at a time. In United’s case, that means the Sir Bobby Charlton Stand.

For a long time, the argument against upgrading that stand was that it was simply too difficult — and therefore expensive — because of the railway line that runs along Old Trafford’s southern boundary. But stadium engineering has come on a long way in recent years and that line is no longer the obstacle to 6,000 more seats and nicer boxes it once was.

Broadly speaking, there are two ways to pay for things like football clubs or new stands: debt or equity. And we know which of those the Glazers prefer.

So, it is entirely possible that in the not too distant future, United’s debt and interest payments will start to swell again.

Whether that leads to the creation of another phoenix club, a boom in the sale of green and gold scarves or more postponed matches will probably hinge on old-fashioned things like beating City in the derby this weekend.

After all, no Tampa Bay Buccaneer fans are moaning about the Glazers being distracted by their silly soccer investment at the moment.

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