Training Wednesday 8/2

The man with a pass and his insight into every day training at Manchester City Football Club.

Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:30 pm

Here goes:

1) Planning and organisation.

It didnt seem the best from the start but that's all gone now.(apart from still changing the start times at short notice) I would say it is all very carefully planned now in keeping with Mancini's meticulous nature and everything is laid out and in place early.There is a sizeable coaching team who organise and set up everything but without doubt it's to specifications laid down by the boss.

Probably no different in all of this with Hughes but maybe his team had more of a say in what the plans were.

2) Warm Ups. Probably very similar now to before.Something at the start even if gentle ( not forgetting that some gym work is done before they go out) plus stretches and fitness routines often during the overall session.Hughes implemented a significant back room sports science set up and that is still in place plus of course there were massive changes within the Carrington complex to bring the set up to state of the art. The fitness of the team was good and is even better now in terms of injury problems (touch wood)compared to every club in the prem I think.

3) Hands on. I dont think I need to say anything more than I have in training reports. Mancini takes basically everything.

4) Tactical. Again I don't need to say too much. Mancini worked really really hard on the team shape and discipline.Initially with a defensive leaning because of the weaknesses we were showing at the time and that is still happening today albeit much less.He still will take the odd session to work solely on team formation and without a ball being invloved but just to remind and rum in what he expects.I recall Petrov saying very soon after he took over that we all know what to do now and that involved working hard and defending as a team.He even said that meant him and Robinho as well.

Very funny really as if Hughes had said they didnt have to do that.Both regimes focus on short small sided games where passing/movement and touch were key but Hughes did use some 11 a side situatuions to work on things whereas Mancini virtually never has.

He does get 11 players on the field and have them pass the ball around and work on attacking a dfensive sitauations but mostly without any opposition.Whereas Hughes would work it often but with a team to play against.Hughes also tended to watch a lot of the sessions including tactical stuff and leave Bowen and Niedzvicki giving direction on the field.With Mancini it's 100% him

5) Situations. The same as above. For corners and free kicks its all Mancini and usually but not always done without opposing players getting involved.Pretty well total emphasis on where players should be.And of course it's zonal work as against man to man marking.

6) Attacking. Same again.All Mancini and mostly done without opposition but the stuff they worked on was similar.It has evolved though as we now have a much better squad and they have taken attacking play to another level. A lot of that will definitely be down to Mancini whether it's directly from what he says or a by product of him getting better quality players and his encouragement to do what comes naturally to them.

7) Team work. The situation where the team do different things at times just doesnt seem an issue but is different to what used to happen.Training didnt seem as much fun for a while but that's probably because of the specific repeated work done on the shape/formation stuff and maybe simply because everyone was working hard and making sure they impressed the new boss. Didnt work too well for some did it :)

The fact is the team are a team now and training looks and sounds like fun.

8)Intensity. The above would also explain (I think) why it seemed the intensity seemed lower in the initial weeks/months. It does vary a little now from time to time but I thinks how it should be but the intensity of the matches they play now compared to with Hughes is very similar.Possibly a little moreso now.

9) Personal chats.Does Mancini ever talk to players? Of course he does and on a very regular basis and that's only what I see on the training pitch.

And along with the intensity of the training and the fact that I am lucky enough to be inside the fencing I can say that I enjoy it more now than before.Hell look at the quality of what I am watching.We've just won a trophy and another is in reach and we have an array of magnificent footballers to watch.

So after all that waffle the answer is that the key difference is Mancini and his very hands on approach on everything.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Deyna » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:47 pm

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
twosips wrote:How does training now compare to Sven and Hughes?



haha why am I not surprised at that question. Let me consider the answer and let you know.


Ok. I honestly cant remember much about the Sven era as I only started going late in his short reign so not really fair for a decent comparison. Basic memories are of a relaxed situation with Sven on the touchline a lot with a grey haired bloke (cant remember his damn name).

Anyway with Hughes the first thing was stopping fans getting beyond the fence and immediately a more organised approach to everything.I seem to recall I did a thread about the comparison of training with Mancini compared to Hughes some months after the change which I have just found after a laborious search.Not being technically any good I have copied it to here and will add to it as we are now 2 years further on:

Sorry in advance if this goes on a lot but I will break the whole thing into a number of parts to show the differences.

1) Planning/organisation.
Apart from confusing the hell out of me (and staff at the club) with starting times it does all seem a little bit less prepared now compared to what it was. I have no doubt the same amount of thinking and preparation goes on in advance but somehow the posts/nets or the cones for different exercises don’t always seem to be where they should be. It is getting a lot better recently. It’s interesting to note that anything set up on the main practice pitch seems to be done by Mancini himself. Almost as if he doesn’t yet trust anyone else to do it properly!

Also something noticeable that at the end of a session they just walk off and leave everything where it is. Cones, posts, mannequins, balls whatever, are just left around for someone else to tidy up later whenever that is. Nothing wrong with that but very different to before when at least all the balls would be collected in and accounted for.

2) Warm Ups.
Used to be religiously done at the start by physios before any real work was started. And they were watched/supervised very closely by the management team. Now they tend to be done intermittently through an overall session. To start with Ivan Carminati as the main fitness coach oversaw what they did but this has relaxed a little more as he has become confident with both the players and the other fitness staff to take a step away.

Overall though at the start they did a lot less warming up and stretching but this has gradually changed in the last 2 weeks or so.

3) Hands On
Whatever discussions take place pre sessions there is no doubt this is one of the key areas of difference. Mancini is 100% hands on. In every aspect of the football work Mancini leads the coaching. It seems like he and he alone tells them what he wants and how to do it whether defensive or attacking. Kidd or one of the others might be on the fringes of what’s going on but virtually never have I heard them adding to what he has said. That doesn’t go for the keeper coaching of course.

4) Tactical
Another apparent major area of difference. I say apparent of course as I wouldn’t agree that Hughes hadn’t a clue etc etc about tactics but I would agree that Mancini is more prepared to change tactics more during games. It does show itself in training by the way he spends more time on the pitch clearly talking to players about team shape and all sorts of things.

I have highlighted that Mancini at the start of every session does the same exercise moving the team around the field getting them used to the team shape he requires depending on where the ball is. Niedzvieki also did this at times during sessions but nowhere near as much emphasis was put on this aspect.

The surprise for me is that although Mancini does spend a lot more time on tactics during training I don’t think they have once under him ever played any sort of 11 a side training game to put it into practice to make it work and test it out against a team, to get the players to understand how it should work and of course to test it against players trying to stop them. That was something that did happen before.

5) Situations
Corners, free kicks, whether attacking or defending, never seemed to be high priority under Hughes but at least the defending of them has been picked up by Mancini. Apart from changing the tactic to a more zonal approach he does seem to work on them almost every session I have seen. Often it can be without a ball but just getting players to understand where to stand and what to do when the ball comes over.

We know it has worked so far. Less time, in fact very little, is spent on attacking them. Interestingly Mancini doesn’t get the whole team doing this work but either just the team (ish) for the next game or split it into 2 groups done separately. When Hughes did it all the team would be involved at the same time with some attacking and some defending.

6) Attacking
Probably the only difference here would be that I haven’t seen attacking work done here under Mancini (in an 11 a side sense) against a defence. Whereas Hughes would regularly have the attack against defence scenario.

Aside from that pretty well all the attacking routines I have seen them do are roughly the same. There is maybe less variety under Mancini so far but I am sure more to come.

7) Team Work
I have put this under a separate heading just to highlight the fact that Mancini does seem to split the groups up a lot more than before. Mostly they used to do all routines together rather than 8 at one time, 8 at another and the rest playing head tennis or whatever. I am sure there is method in it but I am not sure what it is.

There definitely isn’t as much fun during sessions as there used to be. Glad to hear it many might say and the only question I would raise would be about team spirit. Training sessions I would have thought have a part to play in building team spirit and on this aspect my personal opinion is that it isn’t as good as it was and this might have a little to do with it.

8) Intensity
Specific questions have been asked about this and I am sure the answer is known already based on my replies. They were a lot more intense before end of story imo. NDJ still upends somebody from time to time but overall there is a lot less effort expended during a session now. There is actually a lot less football played in a session and as I have said basically never an 11 a side game played.

9) Personal Chats
Before, during and after sessions the manager will have close discussions with individual players. Often the captain or a key player or one just back from injury. Mancini certainly does this and I have seen Kidd as well with a player but probably I would say Hughes did it more aided by Bowen and Niedzvieki.

Who knows what goes on behind closed doors but that is my observation from what I have seen.

Finally from a personal and selfish point of view I would say that watching training now is not as enjoyable as it was. Partly due to the issues of not knowing when it will happen and the fencing but also because there just seems to be less going on during a session. Mostly though it is because before I regularly got the chance for a chat with either one of the coaches or physios to get real insights in what was going on. Long gone now and never likely to return but that was a very enjoyable aspect and even though much of what I was told couldnt be posted I do think I could add to reports on here to make them of more interest.



Maybe I should comment in another post :)

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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:50 pm

Deyna wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
twosips wrote:How does training now compare to Sven and Hughes?



haha why am I not surprised at that question. Let me consider the answer and let you know.


Ok. I honestly cant remember much about the Sven era as I only started going late in his short reign so not really fair for a decent comparison. Basic memories are of a relaxed situation with Sven on the touchline a lot with a grey haired bloke (cant remember his damn name).

Anyway with Hughes the first thing was stopping fans getting beyond the fence and immediately a more organised approach to everything.I seem to recall I did a thread about the comparison of training with Mancini compared to Hughes some months after the change which I have just found after a laborious search.Not being technically any good I have copied it to here and will add to it as we are now 2 years further on:

Sorry in advance if this goes on a lot but I will break the whole thing into a number of parts to show the differences.

1) Planning/organisation.
Apart from confusing the hell out of me (and staff at the club) with starting times it does all seem a little bit less prepared now compared to what it was. I have no doubt the same amount of thinking and preparation goes on in advance but somehow the posts/nets or the cones for different exercises don’t always seem to be where they should be. It is getting a lot better recently. It’s interesting to note that anything set up on the main practice pitch seems to be done by Mancini himself. Almost as if he doesn’t yet trust anyone else to do it properly!

Also something noticeable that at the end of a session they just walk off and leave everything where it is. Cones, posts, mannequins, balls whatever, are just left around for someone else to tidy up later whenever that is. Nothing wrong with that but very different to before when at least all the balls would be collected in and accounted for.

2) Warm Ups.
Used to be religiously done at the start by physios before any real work was started. And they were watched/supervised very closely by the management team. Now they tend to be done intermittently through an overall session. To start with Ivan Carminati as the main fitness coach oversaw what they did but this has relaxed a little more as he has become confident with both the players and the other fitness staff to take a step away.

Overall though at the start they did a lot less warming up and stretching but this has gradually changed in the last 2 weeks or so.

3) Hands On
Whatever discussions take place pre sessions there is no doubt this is one of the key areas of difference. Mancini is 100% hands on. In every aspect of the football work Mancini leads the coaching. It seems like he and he alone tells them what he wants and how to do it whether defensive or attacking. Kidd or one of the others might be on the fringes of what’s going on but virtually never have I heard them adding to what he has said. That doesn’t go for the keeper coaching of course.

4) Tactical
Another apparent major area of difference. I say apparent of course as I wouldn’t agree that Hughes hadn’t a clue etc etc about tactics but I would agree that Mancini is more prepared to change tactics more during games. It does show itself in training by the way he spends more time on the pitch clearly talking to players about team shape and all sorts of things.

I have highlighted that Mancini at the start of every session does the same exercise moving the team around the field getting them used to the team shape he requires depending on where the ball is. Niedzvieki also did this at times during sessions but nowhere near as much emphasis was put on this aspect.

The surprise for me is that although Mancini does spend a lot more time on tactics during training I don’t think they have once under him ever played any sort of 11 a side training game to put it into practice to make it work and test it out against a team, to get the players to understand how it should work and of course to test it against players trying to stop them. That was something that did happen before.

5) Situations
Corners, free kicks, whether attacking or defending, never seemed to be high priority under Hughes but at least the defending of them has been picked up by Mancini. Apart from changing the tactic to a more zonal approach he does seem to work on them almost every session I have seen. Often it can be without a ball but just getting players to understand where to stand and what to do when the ball comes over.

We know it has worked so far. Less time, in fact very little, is spent on attacking them. Interestingly Mancini doesn’t get the whole team doing this work but either just the team (ish) for the next game or split it into 2 groups done separately. When Hughes did it all the team would be involved at the same time with some attacking and some defending.

6) Attacking
Probably the only difference here would be that I haven’t seen attacking work done here under Mancini (in an 11 a side sense) against a defence. Whereas Hughes would regularly have the attack against defence scenario.

Aside from that pretty well all the attacking routines I have seen them do are roughly the same. There is maybe less variety under Mancini so far but I am sure more to come.

7) Team Work
I have put this under a separate heading just to highlight the fact that Mancini does seem to split the groups up a lot more than before. Mostly they used to do all routines together rather than 8 at one time, 8 at another and the rest playing head tennis or whatever. I am sure there is method in it but I am not sure what it is.

There definitely isn’t as much fun during sessions as there used to be. Glad to hear it many might say and the only question I would raise would be about team spirit. Training sessions I would have thought have a part to play in building team spirit and on this aspect my personal opinion is that it isn’t as good as it was and this might have a little to do with it.

8) Intensity
Specific questions have been asked about this and I am sure the answer is known already based on my replies. They were a lot more intense before end of story imo. NDJ still upends somebody from time to time but overall there is a lot less effort expended during a session now. There is actually a lot less football played in a session and as I have said basically never an 11 a side game played.

9) Personal Chats
Before, during and after sessions the manager will have close discussions with individual players. Often the captain or a key player or one just back from injury. Mancini certainly does this and I have seen Kidd as well with a player but probably I would say Hughes did it more aided by Bowen and Niedzvieki.

Who knows what goes on behind closed doors but that is my observation from what I have seen.

Finally from a personal and selfish point of view I would say that watching training now is not as enjoyable as it was. Partly due to the issues of not knowing when it will happen and the fencing but also because there just seems to be less going on during a session. Mostly though it is because before I regularly got the chance for a chat with either one of the coaches or physios to get real insights in what was going on. Long gone now and never likely to return but that was a very enjoyable aspect and even though much of what I was told couldnt be posted I do think I could add to reports on here to make them of more interest.



Maybe I should comment in another post :)

Tord Grip...
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He was there but isnt the one I was thinking of.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:06 am

Hans Backe
The pissartist formerly known as Ted

VIVA EL CITY !!!

Some take the bible for what it's worth.. when they say that the rags shall inherit the Earth...
Well I heard that the Sheikh... bought Carlos Tevez this week...& you fuckers aint gettin' nothin..
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby dazby » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:22 am

Thanks for the effort there Doug. Great posting.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Dubciteh » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:33 am

Ted Hughes wrote:Hans Backe


Yep thats him, was managing new york redbulls last i heard and sat beside either his daughter or niece on a flight to vegas last year and had a great chat with her about city and NY!
derby day the scores were level,
then the goat was fed by neville,
silly boy should know for sure,
feed the goat and he will score!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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