Training Wednesday 8/2

The man with a pass and his insight into every day training at Manchester City Football Club.

Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:46 pm

Another really good session today but very different from yesterday.And it started with the great sight of Vinnie coming out alongside Nasri.So those rumours of Vinnie having an operation last week weren't true, surprise surprise.As they were all milling around waiting for the boss to gather them for the initial briefing Sergio and Pablo decided to try the old playground trick to floor Mario.Pablo getting onto all 4's behind Mario as Sergio pushed him over.The old ones are the best:)

23 players on view today with Rekik,Razak,Roman,Suarez and Helan still involved and only Hargreaves missing.Mancini took a team away early on to work with and the rest stayed back to do some gentle but specific ball exercises.Lots of emphasis on a good touch,whether it's volleys,half volleys ,chest ,head etc.Then everyone into fitness exercises which is where Vinnie and Samir were separate doing their own thing under the watchful eye of Mancini.Dzeko with these two as well catching up on what he missed yesterday.

Then into a passing game with the small nets to score in as long as 10 passes had been completed.Mario missed the beginning of this as he ran inside but in the end I think he scored the only goal with a header.3 of the young ones missed out on this game to help with the keeper training(Roman,Scapuzzi and Helan).Up to this point the work had been quality but not intense or especially energetic which I felt yesterday was.That was before the final session which was 6 a side with 4 teams competing against each other in very short games.Unfortunately there was an injury which didnt look good as he was piggy backed off and then whisked away on a buggy. An ankle injury to Razak.Not sure how it happened but I just hope its a knock rather than ligament trouble.

So onto the 6 a side and it was quite frantic and impossible to watch everything with 2 games going on simultaneously and goals flying in all the time.Another injury happened very quickly which again looked worrying but I think it was just Rekik got caught in the face and lost a contact lens!I hope it was that anyway and not a tooth :) Mario also got an ankle knock but it was nothing and he was just milking it.

Although plenty of goals I think Mancini was more concerned that the movement was good and the tracking and closing of players was equally good.He didnt want anyone coasting and the energy and desire was there for all to see.Not least as ever from Nigel and I think he scored 3 in the first game.So many goals and I will have missed plenty as well probabbly but I saw:

Nigel about 5
Suarez 2
Scapuzzi 3
Edin 6
Aguero 1 ( I must have missed some)
Rekik
Helan 2
Milner 2
Roman
Mario 2
Kolarov 2
Zaba 2
Barry
AJ

Some beauties in there too but it was only 6 a side and the keepers worked overtime pulling off masses of great saves.Hard to tell who won but I think it was given away with Nigel's raised arm and celebrations with Joleon when the final final whistle blew.Their team also included Silva (maybe he scored and I missed it) Edin and Joan Roman.All good stuff and as they were all called to the physio for a warm down Mario stayed back for a couple of penalties. And yes he scored both against Joe who's words in response are not printable :)
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:08 pm

Thanks Doug. Quality as ever.

Does Razak contribute well in an attacking sense in the training games & seem to have an aptitude for it or is he looking more likely to end up developing in a Nige type role ?
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby twosips » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:12 pm

I echo Ted's sentiments ^^

Interested to hear how Razak is doing. I think a lot of our younger players would actually play better for us than they would for a championship club. Same way that when a young Barca player comes into their first team they excel around quality. Put it this way, if that Cuenca lad at Barca who's just broke though went to say Barnsley on loan, as well as he'd do, he'd never look as good as he does in the Barca team surrounded by sheer talent.

Razak, Rekik and Suarez seem like the three most talented youngsters we've got and I genuinely believe they could develop to a good level if they train with our first team constantly and fit in.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Hazy2 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:16 pm

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:Another really good session today but very different from yesterday.And it started with the great sight of Vinnie coming out alongside Nasri.So those rumours of Vinnie having an operation last week weren't true, surprise surprise.As they were all milling around waiting for the boss to gather them for the initial briefing Sergio and Pablo decided to try the old playground trick to floor Mario.Pablo getting onto all 4's behind Mario as Sergio pushed him over.The old ones are the best:)

23 players on view today with Rekik,Razak,Roman,Suarez and Helan still involved and only Hargreaves missing.Mancini took a team away early on to work with and the rest stayed back to do some gentle but specific ball exercises.Lots of emphasis on a good touch,whether it's volleys,half volleys ,chest ,head etc.Then everyone into fitness exercises which is where Vinnie and Samir were separate doing their own thing under the watchful eye of Mancini.Dzeko with these two as well catching up on what he missed yesterday.

Then into a passing game with the small nets to score in as long as 10 passes had been completed.Mario missed the beginning of this as he ran inside but in the end I think he scored the only goal with a header.3 of the young ones missed out on this game to help with the keeper training(Roman,Scapuzzi and Helan).Up to this point the work had been quality but not intense or especially energetic which I felt yesterday was.That was before the final session which was 6 a side with 4 teams competing against each other in very short games.Unfortunately there was an injury which didnt look good as he was piggy backed off and then whisked away on a buggy. An ankle injury to Razak.Not sure how it happened but I just hope its a knock rather than ligament trouble.

So onto the 6 a side and it was quite frantic and impossible to watch everything with 2 games going on simultaneously and goals flying in all the time.Another injury happened very quickly which again looked worrying but I think it was just Rekik got caught in the face and lost a contact lens!I hope it was that anyway and not a tooth :) Mario also got an ankle knock but it was nothing and he was just milking it.

Although plenty of goals I think Mancini was more concerned that the movement was good and the tracking and closing of players was equally good.He didnt want anyone coasting and the energy and desire was there for all to see.Not least as ever from Nigel and I think he scored 3 in the first game.So many goals and I will have missed plenty as well probabbly but I saw:

Nigel about 5
Suarez 2
Scapuzzi 3
Edin 6
Aguero 1 ( I must have missed some)
Rekik
Helan 2
Milner 2
Roman
Mario 2
Kolarov 2
Zaba 2
Barry
AJ

Some beauties in there too but it was only 6 a side and the keepers worked overtime pulling off masses of great saves.Hard to tell who won but I think it was given away with Nigel's raised arm and celebrations with Joleon when the final final whistle blew.Their team also included Silva (maybe he scored and I missed it) Edin and Joan Roman.All good stuff and as they were all called to the physio for a warm down Mario stayed back for a couple of penalties. And yes he scored both against Joe who's words in response are not printable :)


thanks Doug, was VK at it then.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:32 pm

twosips wrote:I echo Ted's sentiments ^^

Interested to hear how Razak is doing. I think a lot of our younger players would actually play better for us than they would for a championship club. Same way that when a young Barca player comes into their first team they excel around quality. Put it this way, if that Cuenca lad at Barca who's just broke though went to say Barnsley on loan, as well as he'd do, he'd never look as good as he does in the Barca team surrounded by sheer talent.

Razak, Rekik and Suarez seem like the three most talented youngsters we've got and I genuinely believe they could develop to a good level if they train with our first team constantly and fit in.


One or two may get a few minutes with the first team before the season is out.

Next season I expect, will see the best of these players pushed on a level, & mixed with some from the 1st team squad; tasked with the job of winning the League Cup & possibly even playing a fair part in the FA Cup (as well as putting up a much better showing in the european tournament with the EDS).

Guidetti I expect will be the 4th striker for the 1st team in all competitions.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:18 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:Thanks Doug. Quality as ever.

Does Razak contribute well in an attacking sense in the training games & seem to have an aptitude for it or is he looking more likely to end up developing in a Nige type role ?


Again I would have to qualify any response by saying that the games are usually less than 11 a side and played on half a pitch. I would say Razak's natural game is central/defensive midfield where he breaks up the game and gives it to a team mate.He does that well and he also is strong in the tackle both making them and taking them.So quite like Nigel really.

BUT when I have seen him play for the EDS he has looked to drive forward with the ball to try and make things happen and at times has looked good doing that even though I would say his vision and weight of pass isn't great.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Dubciteh » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:55 pm

Cheers.

Hows Pizarro looking?
derby day the scores were level,
then the goat was fed by neville,
silly boy should know for sure,
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:00 pm

Dubciteh wrote:Cheers.

Hows Pizarro looking?



Good question. Still tiny.I didnt mention him today so he musnt have done anything special.Lost the ball to Suarez once to let him score oooops.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby mr_nool » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:01 pm

Dubciteh wrote:Cheers.

Hows Pizarro looking?


I was a bit doubtful at first, but he's conquered me.

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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby ant london » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:02 pm

Is grandpa pat down there much around the first team?
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby DoomMerchant » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:09 pm

mr_nool wrote:
Dubciteh wrote:Cheers.

Hows Pizarro looking?


I was a bit doubtful at first, but he's conquered me.

Image


Oi vey. That made me laff. That's de soto thing I love about this forum.

Cheers
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:51 pm

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:Thanks Doug. Quality as ever.

Does Razak contribute well in an attacking sense in the training games & seem to have an aptitude for it or is he looking more likely to end up developing in a Nige type role ?


Again I would have to qualify any response by saying that the games are usually less than 11 a side and played on half a pitch. I would say Razak's natural game is central/defensive midfield where he breaks up the game and gives it to a team mate.He does that well and he also is strong in the tackle both making them and taking them.So quite like Nigel really.

BUT when I have seen him play for the EDS he has looked to drive forward with the ball to try and make things happen and at times has looked good doing that even though I would say his vision and weight of pass isn't great.


Cheers.

I figured he may end up in that role but he seems a yard or two quicker than Nige, so hopefully could be a more mobile version in the future.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Fesan » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:12 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:Thanks Doug. Quality as ever.

Does Razak contribute well in an attacking sense in the training games & seem to have an aptitude for it or is he looking more likely to end up developing in a Nige type role ?


Again I would have to qualify any response by saying that the games are usually less than 11 a side and played on half a pitch. I would say Razak's natural game is central/defensive midfield where he breaks up the game and gives it to a team mate.He does that well and he also is strong in the tackle both making them and taking them.So quite like Nigel really.

BUT when I have seen him play for the EDS he has looked to drive forward with the ball to try and make things happen and at times has looked good doing that even though I would say his vision and weight of pass isn't great.


Cheers.

I figured he may end up in that role but he seems a yard or two quicker than Nige, so hopefully could be a more mobile version in the future.


What maked yaya so good IMO is that he does only a few attacking runs each game but they always come at the right time and usually end up doing some damage. If Razak can learn that from yaya (when to go) he could be a great def mid methinks:-)
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:26 pm

ant london wrote:Is grandpa pat down there much around the first team?


Since I have been allowed inside I have seen him once watching training on the touchline near me, a few times inside at Carrington when I have been in the reception but I have also seen him a few times watching EDS games e.g Stalybridge and Bury.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Sideshow Bob » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:24 pm

doug, out of curiosity, have you ever seen training for any other clubs? wondering how ours compares in terms of intensity, types of drills, duration, etc.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Sideshow Bob wrote:doug, out of curiosity, have you ever seen training for any other clubs? wondering how ours compares in terms of intensity, types of drills, duration, etc.



I would love to but I havent.Just City under Sven,Hughes and now Mancini.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby twosips » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:34 pm

How does training now compare to Sven and Hughes?
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:04 pm

twosips wrote:How does training now compare to Sven and Hughes?



haha why am I not surprised at that question. Let me consider the answer and let you know.
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:07 pm

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
twosips wrote:How does training now compare to Sven and Hughes?



haha why am I not surprised at that question. Let me consider the answer and let you know.


Ok. I honestly cant remember much about the Sven era as I only started going late in his short reign so not really fair for a decent comparison. Basic memories are of a relaxed situation with Sven on the touchline a lot with a grey haired bloke (cant remember his damn name).

Anyway with Hughes the first thing was stopping fans getting beyond the fence and immediately a more organised approach to everything.I seem to recall I did a thread about the comparison of training with Mancini compared to Hughes some months after the change which I have just found after a laborious search.Not being technically any good I have copied it to here and will add to it as we are now 2 years further on:

Sorry in advance if this goes on a lot but I will break the whole thing into a number of parts to show the differences.

1) Planning/organisation.
Apart from confusing the hell out of me (and staff at the club) with starting times it does all seem a little bit less prepared now compared to what it was. I have no doubt the same amount of thinking and preparation goes on in advance but somehow the posts/nets or the cones for different exercises don’t always seem to be where they should be. It is getting a lot better recently. It’s interesting to note that anything set up on the main practice pitch seems to be done by Mancini himself. Almost as if he doesn’t yet trust anyone else to do it properly!

Also something noticeable that at the end of a session they just walk off and leave everything where it is. Cones, posts, mannequins, balls whatever, are just left around for someone else to tidy up later whenever that is. Nothing wrong with that but very different to before when at least all the balls would be collected in and accounted for.

2) Warm Ups.
Used to be religiously done at the start by physios before any real work was started. And they were watched/supervised very closely by the management team. Now they tend to be done intermittently through an overall session. To start with Ivan Carminati as the main fitness coach oversaw what they did but this has relaxed a little more as he has become confident with both the players and the other fitness staff to take a step away.

Overall though at the start they did a lot less warming up and stretching but this has gradually changed in the last 2 weeks or so.

3) Hands On
Whatever discussions take place pre sessions there is no doubt this is one of the key areas of difference. Mancini is 100% hands on. In every aspect of the football work Mancini leads the coaching. It seems like he and he alone tells them what he wants and how to do it whether defensive or attacking. Kidd or one of the others might be on the fringes of what’s going on but virtually never have I heard them adding to what he has said. That doesn’t go for the keeper coaching of course.

4) Tactical
Another apparent major area of difference. I say apparent of course as I wouldn’t agree that Hughes hadn’t a clue etc etc about tactics but I would agree that Mancini is more prepared to change tactics more during games. It does show itself in training by the way he spends more time on the pitch clearly talking to players about team shape and all sorts of things.

I have highlighted that Mancini at the start of every session does the same exercise moving the team around the field getting them used to the team shape he requires depending on where the ball is. Niedzvieki also did this at times during sessions but nowhere near as much emphasis was put on this aspect.

The surprise for me is that although Mancini does spend a lot more time on tactics during training I don’t think they have once under him ever played any sort of 11 a side training game to put it into practice to make it work and test it out against a team, to get the players to understand how it should work and of course to test it against players trying to stop them. That was something that did happen before.

5) Situations
Corners, free kicks, whether attacking or defending, never seemed to be high priority under Hughes but at least the defending of them has been picked up by Mancini. Apart from changing the tactic to a more zonal approach he does seem to work on them almost every session I have seen. Often it can be without a ball but just getting players to understand where to stand and what to do when the ball comes over.

We know it has worked so far. Less time, in fact very little, is spent on attacking them. Interestingly Mancini doesn’t get the whole team doing this work but either just the team (ish) for the next game or split it into 2 groups done separately. When Hughes did it all the team would be involved at the same time with some attacking and some defending.

6) Attacking
Probably the only difference here would be that I haven’t seen attacking work done here under Mancini (in an 11 a side sense) against a defence. Whereas Hughes would regularly have the attack against defence scenario.

Aside from that pretty well all the attacking routines I have seen them do are roughly the same. There is maybe less variety under Mancini so far but I am sure more to come.

7) Team Work
I have put this under a separate heading just to highlight the fact that Mancini does seem to split the groups up a lot more than before. Mostly they used to do all routines together rather than 8 at one time, 8 at another and the rest playing head tennis or whatever. I am sure there is method in it but I am not sure what it is.

There definitely isn’t as much fun during sessions as there used to be. Glad to hear it many might say and the only question I would raise would be about team spirit. Training sessions I would have thought have a part to play in building team spirit and on this aspect my personal opinion is that it isn’t as good as it was and this might have a little to do with it.

8) Intensity
Specific questions have been asked about this and I am sure the answer is known already based on my replies. They were a lot more intense before end of story imo. NDJ still upends somebody from time to time but overall there is a lot less effort expended during a session now. There is actually a lot less football played in a session and as I have said basically never an 11 a side game played.

9) Personal Chats
Before, during and after sessions the manager will have close discussions with individual players. Often the captain or a key player or one just back from injury. Mancini certainly does this and I have seen Kidd as well with a player but probably I would say Hughes did it more aided by Bowen and Niedzvieki.

Who knows what goes on behind closed doors but that is my observation from what I have seen.

Finally from a personal and selfish point of view I would say that watching training now is not as enjoyable as it was. Partly due to the issues of not knowing when it will happen and the fencing but also because there just seems to be less going on during a session. Mostly though it is because before I regularly got the chance for a chat with either one of the coaches or physios to get real insights in what was going on. Long gone now and never likely to return but that was a very enjoyable aspect and even though much of what I was told couldnt be posted I do think I could add to reports on here to make them of more interest.



Maybe I should comment in another post :)
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Re: Training Wednesday 8/2

Postby Goataldo » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:12 pm

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
twosips wrote:How does training now compare to Sven and Hughes?



haha why am I not surprised at that question. Let me consider the answer and let you know.


Intruiging....struggling to remeber how involved Sven was...
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