FIFA vs. UEFA

[CBEM]

[
Is it any different to what Ireland did?

No it isn't at all but that doesn't make it right, rather than there being a leger more diverse demographic playing international football it's the same old shit, as I said it's not really international football when passports on convenience are so widespread.

Now if you just removed the names of the countries involved you could do what you wanted.

[Im_Spartacus]

[
Is it any different to what Ireland did?

No it isn't at all but that doesn't make it right, rather than there being a leger more diverse demographic playing international football it's the same old shit, as I said it's not really international football when passports on convenience are so widespread.

Now if you just removed the names of the countries involved you could do what you wanted.

I agree totally with the premise of your argument, problem is, other than the last category, they are absolutely legal, and reflect the reality of global mobility.

1: There's the simple argument of representing where you were born but maybe moved away as a kid

2: 2nd generation descendent is almost always legally entitled to citizenship in the countries of their father's or mother's birth.

3: 3rd generation which is where a lot of the grey area is, as citizenship eligibility isn't automatic, their ties to the country become a bit more tenuous, but that can be viewed differently if one of the parents had birthright citizenship.

4: Then you have the shit Qatar, Saudi, UAE have been doing blatently importing Brazilians and Nigerians

Reality though is that currently most of the kids representing Morrocco for example were either born in and moved away as kids, or are 2nd generation/directly eligible for citizenship, its kinda hard to not allow when they are fully entitled to citizenship.

I mean then you have the shit Qatar, Saudi, UAE have been doing blatently importing Brazilians and Nigerians

[CBEM]

I agree totally with the premise of your argument, problem is, other than the last category, they are absolutely legal, and reflect the reality of global mobility.

1: There's the simple argument of representing where you were born but maybe moved away as a kid

2: 2nd generation descendent is almost always legally entitled to citizenship in the countries of their father's or mother's birth.

3: 3rd generation which is where a lot of the grey area is, as citizenship eligibility isn't automatic, their ties to the country become a bit more tenuous, but that can be viewed differently if one of the parents had birthright citizenship.

4: Then you have the shit Qatar, Saudi, UAE have been doing blatently importing Brazilians and Nigerians

Reality though is that currently most of the kids representing Morrocco for example were either born in and moved away as kids, or are 2nd generation/directly eligible for citizenship, its kinda hard to not allow when they are fully entitled to citizenship.

I mean then you have the shit Qatar, Saudi, UAE have been doing blatently importing Brazilians and Nigerians

Where do we go from here mate?

When the footballing world explain how far Cape Verde have come as a footballing nation where in reality they haven't shifted at all because many of the players haven't even set foot there.

The easy solution is to demand that a player is born in the country he represents, it'd add a bit of national pride back into international football be we all know that FIFA's greed with win as always.

[Im_Spartacus]

I agree totally with the premise of your argument, problem is, other than the last category, they are absolutely legal, and reflect the reality of global mobility.

1: There's the simple argument of representing where you were born but maybe moved away as a kid

2: 2nd generation descendent is almost always legally entitled to citizenship in the countries of their father's or mother's birth.

3: 3rd generation which is where a lot of the grey area is, as citizenship eligibility isn't automatic, their ties to the country become a bit more tenuous, but that can be viewed differently if one of the parents had birthright citizenship.

4: Then you have the shit Qatar, Saudi, UAE have been doing blatently importing Brazilians and Nigerians

Reality though is that currently most of the kids representing Morrocco for example were either born in and moved away as kids, or are 2nd generation/directly eligible for citizenship, its kinda hard to not allow when they are fully entitled to citizenship.

I mean then you have the shit Qatar, Saudi, UAE have been doing blatently importing Brazilians and Nigerians

Where do we go from here mate?

When the footballing world explain how far Cape Verde have come as a footballing nation where in reality they haven't shifted at all because many of the players haven't even set foot there.

The easy solution is to demand that a player is born in the country he represents, it'd add a bit of national pride back into international football be we all know that FIFA's greed with win as always.

I admit I'm not totally sure where it sits at the moment, but I believe the line is currently drawn at 2nd generation - which on the whole seems a reasonable line given that global standard is that a person can legally acquire citizenship in that country.

Personal example of why country of birth would be problematic, my son born in UAE, born to 2 british parents in a country where there is neither automatic nor conditional birthright citizenship - his only nationality/passport is British.

But look 1 generation further on (a circumstance I've seen many in UAE face), if my son marries another British subject also born overseas, then they have a kid born outside the UK in a country without birthright citizenship, this 3rd generation kid who has very little connection to the UK, can only legally become UK Citizens.

Given that migrants overseas, whether they be brits in UAE or Senegalese in France, more often than not will tend to marry in their own community, and also that only around 30 countries (mostly in Americas) have unconditional birthright citizenship, and only another 30 have conditional citizenship (based on parent's country of birth), this latter situation is almost certainly what we're going to see more of.

Like I said I agree generally with the premise of keeping it clean and honest, but the complexities now of the sheer volume of global migration means African countries are within their rights to try and claw back lost talent from diaspora, because even if these kids have never visited the country, these 2nd, and sometimes even 3rd generation kids are legally entitled to citizenship.

The shame is that the British Empire, seems to have had a distinct lack of foresight, colonising every country in the world without a fucking shred of football capability.

[CBEM]

my son born in UAE, born to 2 british parents in a country where there is neither automatic nor conditional birthright citizenship - his only nationality/passport is British.

If his only option is to play for England or one of the home nations because he only has a British passport I can't see a problem with that, it's when national talent is ignored for what in effect are foreigners.

I can't see what the British empire has to do with international qualification though, make a rule and stick with it. Football should grow in the country that spawns the national side whatever that country is.

Otherwise the international games are nothing more than lip service, a vehicle to just promote players profiles and nothing whatsoever to do with national pride, to be fair if it all goes tits up and implodes I couldn't care less and if we didn't play international games I wouldn't miss it.

[Im_Spartacus]

my son born in UAE, born to 2 british parents in a country where there is neither automatic nor conditional birthright citizenship - his only nationality/passport is British.

If his only option is to play for England or one of the home nations because he only has a British passport I can't see a problem with that, it's when national talent is ignored for what in effect are foreigners.

I can't see what the British empire has to do with international qualification though, make a rule and stick with it. Football should grow in the country that spawns the national side whatever that country is.

Otherwise the international games are nothing more than lip service, a vehicle to just promote players profiles and nothing whatsoever to do with national pride, to be fair if it all goes tits up and implodes I couldn't care less and if we didn't play international games I wouldn't miss it.

Ah I'm with you on the international game, couldn't give a rats arse probably the last 10-15 years or so - I'd close the curtains if England were playing in my back garden

FIFA itself has deliberately made legal nationality the foundation of its eligibility rules - which, means that there will be 200+ rule sets that FIFA (or the IOC) has to follow, whether it likes it or not. Eg if the person has legal right to nationality, then FIFA cannot prevent selection other than on sporting grounds (eg already representing one country at senior level).

Following 200+ rulesets introduces the complexity, but I think it's legally not possible for Fifa to challenge that basic premise of nationality, and it's been tested with CAS i believe, who said “CAS actually said that FIFA's rules determine sporting nationality “by reference to the pertinent national law and nationality granted by the sovereign state. Most importantly, FIFA is bound, because of its own rules, by the legal nationality granted to the Player”.

I believe other than sporting basis, the only other time FIFA can now legally challenge nationality, is where citizenship or nationality is granted outside of the country's normal laws.....but then Qatar got round that by changing their immigraiton laws.

So in short, it's fucked

[CBEM]

So in short, it's fucked

I reckon we agree for sure

[nottsblue]

Sparty and CBEM, could not agree more about International football

I also hope it’s consigned to the dustbin and history books. Honestly, the standard is now well below club football, so what’s the point

[CBEM]

Sparty and CBEM, could not agree more about International football

I also hope it’s consigned to the dustbin and history books. Honestly, the standard is now well below club football, so what’s the point

We know what the point is and we see it for what it is, all the players arguably that can't get into their national squads take the option of playing for teams they have a vague link to, and you're right the quality suffers because of it even though football federations will only ever see profit.

I have to nail my colours to the mast here and could be considered by many to be a flag shagger (Probably my age and the time I grew up in) it's hard to get behind international sides when there are so many French, British and German B sides competing instead of actually having their own footballers represented.

Can we thank big Jack for that? We probably can it probably happened before then but he ploughed on wholesale with 13 members of his squad born in England. The controversy really doesn't stop there with Grealish and Rice choosing to play for England (The country they were born in) and being "Outed" as being ridiculous for not playing for a country they weren't born in namely Ireland.

All the more obscene when both of Jacks parents were born in England and Rice's mother born in London.

In short just games to raise a players profile and make FIFA and UEFA money, again I am a bit biased watching the first world cup I remember in 1966 where ALL 22 squad players in the 1966 world cup squad being born in England and were English.

[bigblue]

Most absurd thing for me is how the manager can be from any country. Should have to also have a coaching staff from your country if all the players have to be from there as well.

[patrickblue]

Seems UEFA are taking Infantino to court for what they're calling "criminal mismanagement"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 2zl5kwlxjo

Sounds more like something Carl accuses Baldie1 of than an actual misdemeanour.

[CBEM]

Most absurd thing for me is how the manager can be from any country. Should have to also have a coaching staff from your country if all the players have to be from there as well.

Change the demographic of the fans
Change the demographic of the owners
Change the demographic of the team
Change the name of the stadium
All that's left is the name of the team it means nothing it's an empty can with nothing in, history and tradition used to sell shirts and make profit.

That's the way international teams are going too.