NDJ

[Fish111]

Lost a game have we? NDJ the scapegoat this week? Wasn't there threads earlier in the season praising him and stating he's been our player of the season so far? How times and thinking change after a defeat eh? He hasn't and never will be a creative midfielder, he was brought in to be the player he is which is a tough tackling, ball-winning defensive midfielder. He wasn't brought in to be City's answer to Messi. Our midfield is shit this season partly because of the total loss of form of last seasons player of the year. If superman showed nearly as much flare as last term we wouldn't be having this discussion about NDJ's style of play.

[avoidconfusion]

I don't think NDJ is the sole issue here. I think he is a very good player but like I said many times all the midfielders we have are far too similar and none of them is really creative apart from Ireland who is in terrible form.

I wish Hughes had not sold Elano to be honest we really miss his creative spark.

[btajim]

lets have it right, none of our midfield would be in the rags gunners or chelsea teams. And there lies the problem

I disagree. De Jong has had MOTM performances in Matches against some of these sides and Ireland has got the potential to be one of the best creative Midfielders in the Country. It's just finding that potential and keeping it.

We've got great players. It's a case of using them right. We're 5th. Not 15th.

[mcfc1632]

I don't think NDJ is the sole issue here. I think he is a very good player but like I said many times all the midfielders we have are far too similar and none of them is really creative apart from Ireland who is in terrible form.

I wish Hughes had not sold Elano to be honest we really miss his creative spark.

Views on elano are spilt - but one thing is certain - the more you have a player like him, Rob and many others - if they are in the team - you need an NDJ even more - NDJ is not the problem - you need a creative side as well - NDJ is the best DM we have - so if there needs to be a change - it is elsewhere - unless people just want a scapegoat - Oh....

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Lost a game have we? NDJ the scapegoat this week? Wasn't there threads earlier in the season praising him and stating he's been our player of the season so far? How times and thinking change after a defeat eh? He hasn't and never will be a creative midfielder, he was brought in to be the player he is which is a tough tackling, ball-winning defensive midfielder. He wasn't brought in to be City's answer to Messi. Our midfield is shit this season partly because of the total loss of form of last seasons player of the year. If superman showed nearly as much flare as last term we wouldn't be having this discussion about NDJ's style of play.

Really? That's crazy.

My critisism of De Jong is about his overall style of play. I have said it before, after games we won as well.

[mcfc1632]

Lost a game have we? NDJ the scapegoat this week? Wasn't there threads earlier in the season praising him and stating he's been our player of the season so far? How times and thinking change after a defeat eh? He hasn't and never will be a creative midfielder, he was brought in to be the player he is which is a tough tackling, ball-winning defensive midfielder. He wasn't brought in to be City's answer to Messi. Our midfield is shit this season partly because of the total loss of form of last seasons player of the year. If superman showed nearly as much flare as last term we wouldn't be having this discussion about NDJ's style of play.

Really? That's crazy.

My critisism of De Jong is about his overall style of play. I have said it before, after games we won as well.

You have - and lots of people have pointed out how wrong you have been - remember the thread you started after the game against the scum - people were clear that you were totally wrong - but once you have opinion I guess you see it as being for others to change theirs to fit

[Vhero]

Like I just said in another thread, I thought he was one of our better players tonight.

Far better than Barry who just gives away free-kicks and possession.

This.

[Bingo Lewis]

Nigel De Jong shouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 unless we're away against a top team, or 2 or 3 goals in front in a game and need somebody to sit in front of the defence. Why oh why mancini felt the need to play 451 at home, after going for an attacking 442 away at Fulham I don't know. He seems to think that playing defensively works for us, it doesn't. we are best when we're attacking, and for this season alone, while we have these personnel he should play to the score one more than you approach. What does my nut in about De Jong is how when one of our defenders or midfielders has the ball he goes and stands next to them asking for it, then does a one, two. whats the fucking point? get in space, free yourself up, be fucking useful. fuck me.

[Ted Hughes]

Nigel De Jong shouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 unless we're away against a top team, or 2 or 3 goals in front in a game and need somebody to sit in front of the defence. Why oh why mancini felt the need to play 451 at home, after going for an attacking 442 away at Fulham I don't know. He seems to think that playing defensively works for us, it doesn't. we are best when we're attacking, and for this season alone, while we have these personnel he should play to the score one more than you approach. What does my nut in about De Jong is how when one of our defenders or midfielders has the ball he goes and stands next to them asking for it, then does a one, two. whats the fucking point? get in space, free yourself up, be fucking useful. fuck me.

Absolutely spot on. I don't actually mind if DeJong plays in home games against teams who are going to play 'open' against us, so long as he's one of 2 not 3 but playing him against dour teams just drags us down to their level. I'd prefer not to have a player like that most of the time.

Why don't Barry or Ireland come & take the ball off defenders & start off moves instead? That's what similar players in top teams do.

[mcfc1632]

Nigel De Jong shouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 unless we're away against a top team, or 2 or 3 goals in front in a game and need somebody to sit in front of the defence. Why oh why mancini felt the need to play 451 at home, after going for an attacking 442 away at Fulham I don't know. He seems to think that playing defensively works for us, it doesn't. we are best when we're attacking, and for this season alone, while we have these personnel he should play to the score one more than you approach. What does my nut in about De Jong is how when one of our defenders or midfielders has the ball he goes and stands next to them asking for it, then does a one, two. whats the fucking point? get in space, free yourself up, be fucking useful. fuck me.

Absolutely spot on. I don't actually mind if DeJong plays in home games against teams who are going to play 'open' against us, so long as he's one of 2 not 3 but playing him against dour teams just drags us down to their level. I'd prefer not to have a player like that most of the time.

Why don't Barry or Ireland come & take the ball off defenders & start off moves instead? That's what similar players in top teams do.

2 posters that I agree with so often - but I cannot understand their comments on this - good question: why the MF are not more creative - and why they do not take the ball onwards etc - the answer used to be because we just hoofed it over them because we were being overrun all the time - the thing that NDJ stopped - and every time he does not play - or has an off game - guess what happens!!!! - better fix the real problems before removing the the finger from the dyke

[Bingo Lewis]

Nigel De Jong shouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 unless we're away against a top team, or 2 or 3 goals in front in a game and need somebody to sit in front of the defence. Why oh why mancini felt the need to play 451 at home, after going for an attacking 442 away at Fulham I don't know. He seems to think that playing defensively works for us, it doesn't. we are best when we're attacking, and for this season alone, while we have these personnel he should play to the score one more than you approach. What does my nut in about De Jong is how when one of our defenders or midfielders has the ball he goes and stands next to them asking for it, then does a one, two. whats the fucking point? get in space, free yourself up, be fucking useful. fuck me.

Absolutely spot on. I don't actually mind if DeJong plays in home games against teams who are going to play 'open' against us, so long as he's one of 2 not 3 but playing him against dour teams just drags us down to their level. I'd prefer not to have a player like that most of the time.

Why don't Barry or Ireland come & take the ball off defenders & start off moves instead? That's what similar players in top teams do.

2 posters that I agree with so often - but I cannot understand their comments on this - good question: why the MF are not more creative - and why they do not take the ball onwards etc - the answer used to be because we just hoofed it over them because we were being overrun all the time - the thing that NDJ stopped - and every time he does not play - or has an off game - guess what happens!!!! - better fix the real problems before removing the the finger from the dyke

Mate, when NDJ isn't on the pitch, we attack. we don't need anyone doing his work, because we're bombarding the opposition. Having NDJ on the field invites the oppo onto us. Thats where it fucks up.

[Ted Hughes]

Nigel De Jong shouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 unless we're away against a top team, or 2 or 3 goals in front in a game and need somebody to sit in front of the defence. Why oh why mancini felt the need to play 451 at home, after going for an attacking 442 away at Fulham I don't know. He seems to think that playing defensively works for us, it doesn't. we are best when we're attacking, and for this season alone, while we have these personnel he should play to the score one more than you approach. What does my nut in about De Jong is how when one of our defenders or midfielders has the ball he goes and stands next to them asking for it, then does a one, two. whats the fucking point? get in space, free yourself up, be fucking useful. fuck me.

Absolutely spot on. I don't actually mind if DeJong plays in home games against teams who are going to play 'open' against us, so long as he's one of 2 not 3 but playing him against dour teams just drags us down to their level. I'd prefer not to have a player like that most of the time.

Why don't Barry or Ireland come & take the ball off defenders & start off moves instead? That's what similar players in top teams do.

2 posters that I agree with so often - but I cannot understand their comments on this - good question: why the MF are not more creative - and why they do not take the ball onwards etc - the answer used to be because we just hoofed it over them because we were being overrun all the time - the thing that NDJ stopped - and every time he does not play - or has an off game - guess what happens!!!! - better fix the real problems before removing the the finger from the dyke

Mate, when NDJ isn't on the pitch, we attack. we don't need anyone doing his work, because we're bombarding the opposition. Having NDJ on the field invites the oppo onto us. Thats where it fucks up.

We played some of our best football under Hughes before DeJong came back into the team. There was no evidence at that stage to suggest that we couldn't play & win without him. Since then we haven't particularly missed him when he hasn't played.

[Im_Spartacus]

Nigel De Jong shouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 unless we're away against a top team, or 2 or 3 goals in front in a game and need somebody to sit in front of the defence. Why oh why mancini felt the need to play 451 at home, after going for an attacking 442 away at Fulham I don't know. He seems to think that playing defensively works for us, it doesn't. we are best when we're attacking, and for this season alone, while we have these personnel he should play to the score one more than you approach. What does my nut in about De Jong is how when one of our defenders or midfielders has the ball he goes and stands next to them asking for it, then does a one, two. whats the fucking point? get in space, free yourself up, be fucking useful. fuck me.

Absolutely spot on. I don't actually mind if DeJong plays in home games against teams who are going to play 'open' against us, so long as he's one of 2 not 3 but playing him against dour teams just drags us down to their level. I'd prefer not to have a player like that most of the time.

Why don't Barry or Ireland come & take the ball off defenders & start off moves instead? That's what similar players in top teams do.

2 posters that I agree with so often - but I cannot understand their comments on this - good question: why the MF are not more creative - and why they do not take the ball onwards etc - the answer used to be because we just hoofed it over them because we were being overrun all the time - the thing that NDJ stopped - and every time he does not play - or has an off game - guess what happens!!!! - better fix the real problems before removing the the finger from the dyke

Arteta and Cahill made him look a spare part last night, which effectively meant we sacrificed playing a forward for nothing. During the early part of the game when we were on top, had RSC been on the pitch and we had someone to aim at, I believe we would have scored and made it a very different game. Ultimately, Ireland and Barry do not complement De Jong as one is totally immobile and the other is badly out of sorts (even taking into account last nights thuggery) so it is mental to play such a disfunctional trio. Maybe thats more Mancini's fault than De Jong's.

Midfield balance aside, I watched them warming up one game before xmas, and they were playing in a little box with one/two touch pass & move. De Jong lost/panicked into a poor pass which cost his side the ball on every single occasion he got it. His distribution, particularly under pressure is simply not good enough, and whilst running round the pitch putting in big tackles curries favour from fans like it did with Zabaleta, it seems those who are into that sort of thing makes the player impervious from criticism.

I dont think he is a poor player, I just dont believe a hard man who can't pass or get forward is appropriate or relevant at the top level of football any more.

[Ted Hughes]

Nigel De Jong shouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 unless we're away against a top team, or 2 or 3 goals in front in a game and need somebody to sit in front of the defence. Why oh why mancini felt the need to play 451 at home, after going for an attacking 442 away at Fulham I don't know. He seems to think that playing defensively works for us, it doesn't. we are best when we're attacking, and for this season alone, while we have these personnel he should play to the score one more than you approach. What does my nut in about De Jong is how when one of our defenders or midfielders has the ball he goes and stands next to them asking for it, then does a one, two. whats the fucking point? get in space, free yourself up, be fucking useful. fuck me.

Absolutely spot on. I don't actually mind if DeJong plays in home games against teams who are going to play 'open' against us, so long as he's one of 2 not 3 but playing him against dour teams just drags us down to their level. I'd prefer not to have a player like that most of the time.

Why don't Barry or Ireland come & take the ball off defenders & start off moves instead? That's what similar players in top teams do.

2 posters that I agree with so often - but I cannot understand their comments on this - good question: why the MF are not more creative - and why they do not take the ball onwards etc - the answer used to be because we just hoofed it over them because we were being overrun all the time - the thing that NDJ stopped - and every time he does not play - or has an off game - guess what happens!!!! - better fix the real problems before removing the the finger from the dyke

Arteta and Cahill made him look a spare part last night, which effectively meant we sacrificed playing a forward for nothing. During the early part of the game when we were on top, had RSC been on the pitch and we had someone to aim at, I believe we would have scored and made it a very different game. Ultimately, Ireland and Barry do not complement De Jong as one is totally immobile and the other is badly out of sorts (even taking into account last nights thuggery) so it is mental to play such a disfunctional trio. Maybe thats more Mancini's fault than De Jong's.

Midfield balance aside, I watched them warming up one game before xmas, and they were playing in a little box with one/two touch pass & move. De Jong lost/panicked into a poor pass which cost his side the ball on every single occasion he got it. His distribution, particularly under pressure is simply not good enough, and whilst running round the pitch putting in big tackles curries favour from fans like it did with Zabaleta, it seems those who are into that sort of thing makes the player impervious from criticism.

I dont think he is a poor player, I just dont believe a hard man who can't pass or get forward is appropriate or relevant at the top level of football any more.

If we had a front 5 which went gung ho attacking like Real Madrid's 'galacticos' or even 4 out & out attackers & a Roy K**** type player I could see a role for him but not at home alongside Barry & Ireland (who looks nowhere near good enough incidentally). If we're going to have a player like that then I'd rather he was 6ft6 & fast as fuck anyway personally.

[Lees Alter Ego]

I always feel we play better when hes not in the side. More attacking football. perhaps im wrong but would be interesting to see the resutls we got where he hadnt played. might do it later if get chance.

That said when he does play i admire his commitment, just a shame he cant go forward at all.

[Mase]

Like I just said in another thread, I thought he was one of our better players tonight.

Far better than Barry who just gives away free-kicks and possession.

Glad someone else thinks that and not just me!

[dazby]

GazBaz is the one who frustrates me. He's mister bloody invisible.

[Mase]

GazBaz is the one who frustrates me. He's mister bloody invisible.

Surprised he hasn't been dropped/rested yet.

[xavi6]

Every team needs a De Jong imo. He's an essential component of our team and should be one of the first names on the team sheet.

His job is to sit in front of the back four and break up play. Does he do that? Absolutely.

The problem is the players around him, i.e. when we play 3 defensive midfielders. Last night when Ireland was on we looked great. De Jong broke up play, gave it to Superman, and we moved forward.

He's not going to beat 5 or 6 players or ping Hollywood balls from corner to corner but he will protect the defence. We have so much creative talent going forward that, if utilised correctly, could destroy any team in the league.

However, without a De Jong they'd be fucked.

[brite blu sky]

Nigel De Jong shouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 unless we're away against a top team, or 2 or 3 goals in front in a game and need somebody to sit in front of the defence. Why oh why mancini felt the need to play 451 at home, after going for an attacking 442 away at Fulham I don't know. He seems to think that playing defensively works for us, it doesn't. we are best when we're attacking, and for this season alone, while we have these personnel he should play to the score one more than you approach. What does my nut in about De Jong is how when one of our defenders or midfielders has the ball he goes and stands next to them asking for it, then does a one, two. whats the fucking point? get in space, free yourself up, be fucking useful. fuck me.

i would go along with these observations basically as i think you are right bingo to see it as a double problem.. 1 that we dont need to play NDJ in many games and 2 that DeJong himself plays in a way that actually holds the defensive back, he actually stops the defensive unit from moving higher up the pitch instead of helping to drag them out from deep.. and as you say he doesn't look for space to receive.

Mancini got it wrong last night probably from being too worried about Everton after the last time, trouble is that cautiousness compounds the problem City have and makes it worse.

DeJong can defo play a role, but unless he is told he has to look to help drag the team out and learns how to do that, then he should not be selected to start. ( unless we want that role we know he can deliver )