Mancini (The Ted Hughes and BBS thread)

[Alioune DVToure]

I've just wasted 10 minutes reading this whole thread. Nowhere near as rowdy as it should be. Admirable tongue-biting from NQDP though.

Today was garbage, but we're still top 4 and can get back on track. As was the case with Hughes and Sven, I really don't want to see another change of manager. If we want Wenger-esque sustained results, we're gonna have to give one fella a run at some point. Managers will continually get undermined and we'll never settle if the management position is constantly under threat.

In a different note, if the_georgian_genius seriously thinks Ted is a poor poster, I'd say he's in a minority of one.

[BobKowalski]

I've just wasted 10 minutes reading this whole thread. Nowhere near as rowdy as it should be. Admirable tongue-biting from NQDP though.

Today was garbage, but we're still top 4 and can get back on track. As was the case with Hughes and Sven, I really don't want to see another change of manager. If we want Wenger-esque sustained results, we're gonna have to give one fella a run at some point. Managers will continually get undermined and we'll never settle if the management position is constantly under threat.

In a different note, if the_georgian_genius seriously thinks Ted is a poor poster, I'd say he's in a minority of one.

Agreed

[Im_Spartacus]

I've just wasted 10 minutes reading this whole thread. Nowhere near as rowdy as it should be. Admirable tongue-biting from NQDP though.

Today was garbage, but we're still top 4 and can get back on track. As was the case with Hughes and Sven, I really don't want to see another change of manager. If we want Wenger-esque sustained results, we're gonna have to give one fella a run at some point. Managers will continually get undermined and we'll never settle if the management position is constantly under threat.

In a different note, if the_georgian_genius seriously thinks Ted is a poor poster, I'd say he's in a minority of one.

I think whether we agree or disagree whether Mancini was the man for the job, we mostly seem to agree that we should let him get on with it for the time being.

Had anyone come on and started making excuses for Mancini, he would have been ripped to pieces so sense has prevailed, we have all avoided a big row, and we move onto next week

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I've just wasted 10 minutes reading this whole thread. Nowhere near as rowdy as it should be. Admirable tongue-biting from NQDP though.

Today was garbage, but we're still top 4 and can get back on track. As was the case with Hughes and Sven, I really don't want to see another change of manager. If we want Wenger-esque sustained results, we're gonna have to give one fella a run at some point. Managers will continually get undermined and we'll never settle if the management position is constantly under threat.

In a different note, if the_georgian_genius seriously thinks Ted is a poor poster, I'd say he's in a minority of one.

I think whether we agree or disagree whether Mancini was the man for the job, we mostly seem to agree that we should let him get on with it for the time being.

Had anyone come on and started making excuses for Mancini, he would have been ripped to pieces so sense has prevailed, we have all avoided a big row, and we move onto next week

I think the responses on here last night were fairly typical after a defeat and especially after a defeat like that one.Plenty of emotional knee jerk stuff flooding out and after all it was a poor effort and the manager himself said he didn't know why it happened the way it did. As for nobody making excuses for Mancini it also seemed evident that the main pro Mancini posters stayed away preferring to saynothing immediately and just take on board what everyone else says.

Quite a sensible approach I would say and it will be interesting to see how the debate develops over the next day or so.I don't think there is a real issue regarding Mancini's position but there is no doubt that the next 2 league games now have a massively increased importance. Alan Hansen made reference to the situation IF we get poor results against WBA and the scum and he was right. It would leave us in mid table. Doesn't bear thinking about.

[Ted Hughes]

One good thing though; if Swales was still in charge we'd all be hearing Maradona's comments about wanting to manage in England & crapping ourselves.

[s1ty m]

Sorry can't quote you as on a iPhone......but if we are having to choose someone to play at CB with Vinny then surely it has to be Kolo who has actually shown some form this season. I'm well aware of how poor both were last season but I see a big improvment in Kolo. I still think Mancini missed the boat in signing a decent CB though!!

I would class myself a Lescott fan within reason but this year from all I have seen Kolo should partner Vinnie as I think he has been very good. Lescott has not been great so far when he has played but equally hasn't been anything like as bad as many have made out. Trouble is he is one of the boo boys at the moment and mistakes he makes are magnified. Others can make similar or worse mistakes and it hardly warrants a mention.
At his best last year Lescott I thought was excellent but now he seems to be lacking a bit of zip and it can catch him out. His basic defensive awareness is still there tho.

I would pick him ahead of Boateng. Bad buys happen, Jerome is one of them. I can't find any positives in what he has done thus far. I know it's early and he's been moved about, but still, he has been terrible.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Sorry can't quote you as on a iPhone......but if we are having to choose someone to play at CB with Vinny then surely it has to be Kolo who has actually shown some form this season. I'm well aware of how poor both were last season but I see a big improvment in Kolo. I still think Mancini missed the boat in signing a decent CB though!!

I would class myself a Lescott fan within reason but this year from all I have seen Kolo should partner Vinnie as I think he has been very good. Lescott has not been great so far when he has played but equally hasn't been anything like as bad as many have made out. Trouble is he is one of the boo boys at the moment and mistakes he makes are magnified. Others can make similar or worse mistakes and it hardly warrants a mention.
At his best last year Lescott I thought was excellent but now he seems to be lacking a bit of zip and it can catch him out. His basic defensive awareness is still there tho.

I would pick him ahead of Boateng. Bad buys happen, Jerome is one of them. I can't find any positives in what he has done thus far. I know it's early and he's been moved about, but still, he has been terrible.

Boateng will be fine.

[Ted Hughes]

Sorry can't quote you as on a iPhone......but if we are having to choose someone to play at CB with Vinny then surely it has to be Kolo who has actually shown some form this season. I'm well aware of how poor both were last season but I see a big improvment in Kolo. I still think Mancini missed the boat in signing a decent CB though!!

I would class myself a Lescott fan within reason but this year from all I have seen Kolo should partner Vinnie as I think he has been very good. Lescott has not been great so far when he has played but equally hasn't been anything like as bad as many have made out. Trouble is he is one of the boo boys at the moment and mistakes he makes are magnified. Others can make similar or worse mistakes and it hardly warrants a mention.
At his best last year Lescott I thought was excellent but now he seems to be lacking a bit of zip and it can catch him out. His basic defensive awareness is still there tho.

I would pick him ahead of Boateng. Bad buys happen, Jerome is one of them. I can't find any positives in what he has done thus far. I know it's early and he's been moved about, but still, he has been terrible.

Boateng will be fine.

I think so too but I wish he wasn't playing at the moment & definitely not at left back.

[ayrshireblue]

The sooner Kolarov is playing again the better. Kolarov at left back, Boateng at right back, Toure and Kompany at centre half and play like that for as long as possible and let them all get used to each other. NDJ in the middle of the park with Milner and either Yaya or Barry. Silva and Tevez supporting Adebayor up top with Balotelli and Johnson being available to change things. That, in my opinion, is our strongest team and we should always play our strongest team unless injuries or suspensions change things.

[Im_Spartacus]

The sooner Kolarov is playing again the better. Kolarov at left back, Boateng at right back, Toure and Kompany at centre half and play like that for as long as possible and let them all get used to each other. NDJ in the middle of the park with Milner and either Yaya or Barry. Silva and Tevez supporting Adebayor up top with Balotelli and Johnson being available to change things. That, in my opinion, is our strongest team and we should always play our strongest team unless injuries or suspensions change things.

Ah, but does that neutralise the threat of Karl Henry? If not, forget it because our team will always be picked and set out in response to the strengths of inferior opposition. Thats Mancini's way, and he wont change

[Ted Hughes]

I don't see how Kolarov & Boateng at fullback can be our strongest team at this stage. Boateng is all over the place & Kolarov has hardly kicked a ball in the Prem. Surely we need to introduce them gradually into a settled team?

[brite blu sky]

I've just wasted 10 minutes reading this whole thread. Nowhere near as rowdy as it should be. Admirable tongue-biting from NQDP though.

Today was garbage, but we're still top 4 and can get back on track. As was the case with Hughes and Sven, I really don't want to see another change of manager. If we want Wenger-esque sustained results, we're gonna have to give one fella a run at some point. Managers will continually get undermined and we'll never settle if the management position is constantly under threat.

In a different note, if the_georgian_genius seriously thinks Ted is a poor poster, I'd say he's in a minority of one.

I think whether we agree or disagree whether Mancini was the man for the job, we mostly seem to agree that we should let him get on with it for the time being.

Had anyone come on and started making excuses for Mancini, he would have been ripped to pieces so sense has prevailed, we have all avoided a big row, and we move onto next week

I think the responses on here last night were fairly typical after a defeat and especially after a defeat like that one.Plenty of emotional knee jerk stuff flooding out and after all it was a poor effort and the manager himself said he didn't know why it happened the way it did. As for nobody making excuses for Mancini it also seemed evident that the main pro Mancini posters stayed away preferring to saynothing immediately and just take on board what everyone else says.

Quite a sensible approach I would say and it will be interesting to see how the debate develops over the next day or so.I don't think there is a real issue regarding Mancini's position but there is no doubt that the next 2 league games now have a massively increased importance. Alan Hansen made reference to the situation IF we get poor results against WBA and the scum and he was right. It would leave us in mid table. Doesn't bear thinking about.

Although i can see where and why any Mancini doubters would be coming from after yesterday magnified what some would be thinking about Bobby anyway. I still think overall it would be and is stupid to be thinking in terms of chopping the manager. He has to learn ( albeit fast ) and i hope he learnt a hell of a lot yesterday. There are still a lot of mitigating circumstances.. as in it is still early days and we still haven't had the luxury of forming our best team even for one game never mind a run of games.
Boateng, Silva, Balotelli, Milner, Yaya are all new to this team and as yet have not had a settled side to adjust to and learn.. you can argue what you want but there is a consequence to that.. how much is anyone guess.


if i have a concern it is more to do with Mancini erring on the side of his purchases and not being brutal in the face of underperformance and making cold calculations regardless of whether players are his purchases. Ted has argued well about too many changes too often and he has a good point.. do that and there could be consequences. So to start with too many new faces and players still getting used to the team and the prem is basically gambling. Ok fine in some ways, but then if those players are not performing as required and are struggling there cannot be a defence of their continuation imo. Yaya and Balotelli were the two least effective contributions and i was dismayed that Mancini didnt see that or was prepared to bite the bullet and bring them off. Maybe i am reading it wrong but it looks to me like he brings Adebayor and Barry off instead out of a stubborn desire for his own men to come through.. if that is case then it is not good.

[Ted Hughes]

Whatever decisions we agree or disagree with, I just hope that if we get a few bad results in the coming games, that the fans don't turn. It's a long season & there are 2 cups & top 4 to play for, no matter what happens in Nov we can still reach those goals. If we've got problems we can all moan on here but let's not do it in the ground, lets get behind the team & help solve it rather than make it worse.

[BlueMoonAwoken]

Im sorry to say it but we have bought too many midfield players that are defensive minded, play them all together and you willl get a boring game. You have to play your flair (creative) players if you want to win games. Against the big teams you can choose a powerful side and just stop them playing , and hope to get a winner but against smaller teams you need to making sure they are scared to come out of their own half.

In reality though, how hard is it for a defensively minded trio to win the ball, pass short to the midfielder who is in space, who plays one of the wide players in. The midfielder who hasnt been involved in the move yet moves forward into space to give the winger an option other than just hitting it into the box and hoping for the best.

THAT, is where we fall down. The players pass the ball wide or upto the forward, then generally stand and admire their work whilst the ball generally comes straight back (usually in the opposition's possession) because the player they just passed to has no options.

I don't give a fuck about who is a defensive midfielder or not, that is pure and simple football - and it hasn't been happening since Mancini got here, which is one of the reason the football is so fucking mind-numbing.

We win the ball, play it forward, lose it, win it back, lose it, play it forwards - like clockwork, the difference between us passing it forwards and Chelsea/Munes, is that they play it forward with intent, we play it forward with hope that an individual will do something amazing.

It is dumb-ass football of the highest order, a total waste of fucking time. Its only by doing it 20/30 times in a game, that by the law of averages and Tevez's sheer hard work that we are scoring at all. As we can now see, without Tevez, its fucking pointless.

I agree with you john but the team that does it best is arsenal and its called pass and move but with players like barry, milner. toure and de jong we will have none at all no matter how good a front 3 we have.

I think people expect way too much from yaya all he ever did at barca was sit behind zavi and iniesta who hardly ever gave the ball away and toure was superb at keeping possession but i think he is struggling when other players give the ball away and he has to chase more than he has ever used to which means him getting dragged out of position. It is something yaya will have to get used to to be honest and anyone who thinks he will be a lampard type player is mistaken.

To get the best out of city i would have a midfield of......

AJ......yaya.......De-jong.....Silva

OR

I hate it when mancini continues to play barry on the left he needs to play in the middle or not at all imo. then there is milner and for me i dont know where his best position is.

[Beefymcfc]

Whatever decisions we agree or disagree with, I just hope that if we get a few bad results in the coming games, that the fans don't turn. It's a long season & there are 2 cups & top 4 to play for, no matter what happens in Nov we can still reach those goals. If we've got problems we can all moan on here but let's not do it in the ground, lets get behind the team & help solve it rather than make it worse.

I can't really see that happening mate, even under Hughes there was very little discontent shown at the ground and I'm sure every one of us know how lucky we are. That is unless he decided to keep making the same silly mistakes in our eyes and the performances don't get any better once he's been given the time.

[Renato_CTID]

What's the Wolves defeat could teach about Man City of this season? The most important thing is Mancio made a terrible mistake signing too many defensive midfielders and how much did he pay for them!

[brite blu sky]

Whatever decisions we agree or disagree with, I just hope that if we get a few bad results in the coming games, that the fans don't turn. It's a long season & there are 2 cups & top 4 to play for, no matter what happens in Nov we can still reach those goals. If we've got problems we can all moan on here but let's not do it in the ground, lets get behind the team & help solve it rather than make it worse.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I completely ignore the knee jerk stuff as it is mainly an expression of disappointment and anger more than thought out arguments, people start to reason when they have calmed down and not before. So salt and pinch methinks.

My main take on this season is that it is a formation year, lots of new talent coming in and the chance for the manager to set out what he wants and learn both about his players and his own understanding of the game in the prem. That for me is a large part of the reality and it takes time and fuck ups are more than likely. The character and nous of the team and squad has to develop and learning has to take place. It is wishful thinking that everything will just fall into place, although that wishful thinking is not without justification as it could happen and things just go right and a lot of 'getting away with it' occurs while the true work is going on in the background.

It is times like these that the manager really has got his work cut out.. West Brom is now twice as massive a game for all the wrong reasons and Mancini has a hectic and stressed week to find solutions. Imo the cracks will again be papered over, as deJong will come back in and probably he will revert to 4-5-1 to be safe without Tevez there. I can understand that as this is about results, but i would go for team building, ask the players what they thought and push them to play the same formation with some minor changes. ( not Boateng at RB and no Yaya ). Ideally i would send the same side out without deJong as he is covering the midfields asses and imo we are building a problem with that.

[Ted Hughes]

I'd be pretty pissed off if he sends a team out without DeJong tbh. We need the points 1st & foremost.

[david yearsley]

Whatever decisions we agree or disagree with, I just hope that if we get a few bad results in the coming games, that the fans don't turn. It's a long season & there are 2 cups & top 4 to play for, no matter what happens in Nov we can still reach those goals. If we've got problems we can all moan on here but let's not do it in the ground, lets get behind the team & help solve it rather than make it worse.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I completely ignore the knee jerk stuff as it is mainly an expression of disappointment and anger more than thought out arguments, people start to reason when they have calmed down and not before. So salt and pinch methinks.

My main take on this season is that it is a formation year, lots of new talent coming in and the chance for the manager to set out what he wants and learn both about his players and his own understanding of the game in the prem. That for me is a large part of the reality and it takes time and fuck ups are more than likely. The character and nous of the team and squad has to develop and learning has to take place. It is wishful thinking that everything will just fall into place, although that wishful thinking is not without justification as it could happen and things just go right and a lot of 'getting away with it' occurs while the true work is going on in the background.

It is times like these that the manager really has got his work cut out.. West Brom is now twice as massive a game for all the wrong reasons and Mancini has a hectic and stressed week to find solutions. Imo the cracks will again be papered over, as deJong will come back in and probably he will revert to 4-5-1 to be safe without Tevez there. I can understand that as this is about results, but i would go for team building, ask the players what they thought and push them to play the same formation with some minor changes. ( not Boateng at RB and no Yaya ). Ideally i would send the same side out without deJong as he is covering the midfields asses and imo we are building a problem with that.
Not sure about that mate - think WBA would have our pants down - why no Tevez ? Surely he´s back next week?

[10.Goater_Legend]

Top 4 teams dont lose 2 games in a row, let alone Champions.

Todays results is a shocker, Wolves have been playing well and we should have seen it coming, its just proper fucking annoying.

If we play a couple more matches like the last 2, then the players will start doubting Mancini, the fans will feel it, Mancini wont get sacked until the summer at the earliest, and it could become a right laughing stock.

Players, winners, like Tevez, Adebayor, Yaya, etc etc, know what a team should "feel" like, how it should play, how it should react in a match. If the manager cant get 11 players playing better than the sum of their parts, then players lose confidence in themselves and the manager. With our dressing room, full of big characters, I can see it spiraling down quickly, unless we pick up wins in our next games.

Please please please can we go on a awesome winning streak until Christmas, get a couple more players in, and kick on for a comfortable top 4 position.

Top 4 should be our aim, we will not win the league, we wont even be within 10 points. Top 4 is an absolute must.

2008/09

15/11/08: Arsenal 0-2 Aston Villa
22/11/08: Manchester City 3-0 Arsenal

14/03/09: Manchester United 1-4 Liverpool
21/03/09: Fulham 2-0 Manchester United

Arsenal went on to finish 4th
United went on to win the title