Mancini (The Ted Hughes and BBS thread)

[Ted Hughes]

I think you're right that anybody bar JM would be a gamble Doug. I think that was also the case last season. I think Bob will turn this round & get us top 4 but if the methods behind it leave everyone a bit underwhelmed, the spectre of Mourinho will loom again at the end of the season. There's a big similarity between what's happening now at City & Ranieri at Chelsea.

[Ted Hughes]

Like just about every other Blue, I went into last night's game with high expectations that we would get the win and almost guarantee our qualification to the last 32. Like every other Blue, I was gutted by both our failure and our performance. When i saw the team Mancini had picked, I was of the opinion that it was right to leave certain players out and that we were strong enough to beat Poznan. I settled down to be disappointed.....As I was aginst Wolves.

I think it is very easy to consider the last 2 failures in isolation and easy to react that it is all going tits up and we are going backwards. But we still need to consider the much bigger picture.

Two losses in the League with WBa (A) followed by the rags (H) mean that we need to ensure we don't lose touch by risking losing any more League points (4 losses on the bounce would severely harm our chances and increase pressure on the club too much). We HAVE to maximise points in our next 2 games. Considering that, last night's game was one we hoped to win but a loss wasn't catastrophic.

Considering the squad that Mancini inherited, then added to in the summer, we have a very strong squad and one that on paper should be able to compete with anyone. A squad that should be able to give us 2 teams strong enough to compete in any competition and one that should be strong enough to withstand injury and suspension losses. Sadly we don't play on paper. That squad may have the personel in place but as yet is missing other factors necessary for ultimate success.

Vieira was brought in to do a job of adding a more mature and successful mentality on the pitch, in the dressing room and on the training pitch. His job was only ever going to be temporary and he will go. RSC, SWP, Bridge, Ade, Jo and several others will be moved on and their positions strengthened by other (hopefully better) players. Our youngsters; both Johnnos, Boyata, Weiss, Richards and others will either be brought on or shipped out. The like of Kollarov, Silva, Ballotelli and Boateng will eventually settle down This present squad is still in a massive state of change and we are nowhere near the levels that we will eventually be. We are still very much in a state of huge changes and those changes will continue for some considerable time.

Add to the above, that it is unlikely that all of those changes will be successful and that some bought players will probably need to be themselves replaced and it becomes quite obvious that this project is going to take the time we were told it would by the club, Hughes and now Mancini.
CL qualification is the holy grail...(like it or not) even at the expense of other more accessible trophies. It is a long journey to the very top....and we must remember that the big picture will always be the important one.

It wasn't just the selection last night though John, it was the lack of organisation. We looked like Hughes' team in defence & Bob's team in attack.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I think you're right that anybody bar JM would be a gamble Doug. I think that was also the case last season. I think Bob will turn this round & get us top 4 but if the methods behind it leave everyone a bit underwhelmed, the spectre of Mourinho will loom again at the end of the season. There's a big similarity between what's happening now at City & Ranieri at Chelsea.

If he turns it round and we make 4th I couldn't give a toss how he does it and only a very very small % would.He needs to start that process in the next 2 games.

[Ted Hughes]

I think you're right that anybody bar JM would be a gamble Doug. I think that was also the case last season. I think Bob will turn this round & get us top 4 but if the methods behind it leave everyone a bit underwhelmed, the spectre of Mourinho will loom again at the end of the season. There's a big similarity between what's happening now at City & Ranieri at Chelsea.

If he turns it round and we make 4th I couldn't give a toss how he does it and only a very very small % would.He needs to start that process in the next 2 games.

True enough but if that small percentage includes the owner & JM doesn't win the league with Real, it's on the cards whatever we say. I think, as well as getting the points, we have to start looking like a genuine top side this season for Bob to be safe.

[john68]

I understand that all too well Ted, I sat and suffered alongside you and many oither Blues mate. But let me throw this at you and see what you make of it.
Given, Boyata, Zabba, Vieira, SWP, Bridge, Adebayor, 7 players who were involved last night...Most, if not all will probably be shipped out quite soon and replaced. Do you not think that Mancini is aware that none of that group is good enough at the moment, with only Boyata with a chance of any sort of future at City.
Forwards: Several players to leave, possibly 2 quality strikers to come in. The pressure taken off Ballo as he becomes a youngster with talent allowed to grow.
Midfield: Another creative midfielder to support or back up Silva.
Midfield: Vieira to go and possibly a replacement with experience and maturity to replace him.

I'm certain that if a couple of reprobates like you and I can see the problems areas, Marwood and Mancini are also well aware of them Ted.

[Mike J]

what worried me a fair bit is his reaction after last nights game! we didnt deserve to lose, everything was against us!?? erm from he game i was watching we did. we were truly awful to watch.

[john68]

I watched the 1st half on the TV and then turned down the sound, getting the summary and 2nd half commentary from Radio Manchester. How different. On the TV, everything we did was shit, the commentators gave us little credit and were negative about us for most of the time with some comments suited more to their agenda than the reality of what they were seeing.

On Radio Manchester, Fred Eyre was much more upbeat considering that we had controlled most of the 1st half.

I wonder sometimes how much the words of a commentary sink in subliminally and affect our opinions of what we are seeing.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I watched the 1st half on the TV and then turned down the sound, getting the summary and 2nd half commentary from Radio Manchester. How different. On the TV, everything we did was shit, the commentators gave us little credit and were negative about us for most of the time with some comments suited more to their agenda than the reality of what they were seeing.

On Radio Manchester, Fred Eyre was much more upbeat considering that we had controlled most of the 1st half.

I wonder sometimes how much the words of a commentary sink in subliminally and affect our opinions of what we are seeing.

That is undoubtedly true John. I have listened to games on local radio before watching it later on. Hard to imagine it was the same game at times. Last week I listened to the Wolves game on some obscure station , which was more Midlands than Manchester and we didn't even sound decent in the first 20 minutes.

The same actually goes for watching matches and then coming on here at half time:) The OTT nature of things here is staggering and that's when we are playing well or poorly.

[carl_feedthegoat]

I think you're right that anybody bar JM would be a gamble Doug. I think that was also the case last season. I think Bob will turn this round & get us top 4 but if the methods behind it leave everyone a bit underwhelmed, the spectre of Mourinho will loom again at the end of the season. There's a big similarity between what's happening now at City & Ranieri at Chelsea.

If he turns it round and we make 4th I couldn't give a toss how he does it and only a very very small % would.He needs to start that process in the next 2 games.

We need to be in the top 4 ALL SEASON...dropping down to 5th 6 th 7th during the process will not suffice.

[Beefymcfc]

Like just about every other Blue, I went into last night's game with high expectations that we would get the win and almost guarantee our qualification to the last 32. Like every other Blue, I was gutted by both our failure and our performance. When i saw the team Mancini had picked, I was of the opinion that it was right to leave certain players out and that we were strong enough to beat Poznan. I settled down to be disappointed.....As I was aginst Wolves.

I think it is very easy to consider the last 2 failures in isolation and easy to react that it is all going tits up and we are going backwards. But we still need to consider the much bigger picture.

Two losses in the League with WBa (A) followed by the rags (H) mean that we need to ensure we don't lose touch by risking losing any more League points (4 losses on the bounce would severely harm our chances and increase pressure on the club too much). We HAVE to maximise points in our next 2 games. Considering that, last night's game was one we hoped to win but a loss wasn't catastrophic.

Considering the squad that Mancini inherited, then added to in the summer, we have a very strong squad and one that on paper should be able to compete with anyone. A squad that should be able to give us 2 teams strong enough to compete in any competition and one that should be strong enough to withstand injury and suspension losses. Sadly we don't play on paper. That squad may have the personel in place but as yet is missing other factors necessary for ultimate success.

Vieira was brought in to do a job of adding a more mature and successful mentality on the pitch, in the dressing room and on the training pitch. His job was only ever going to be temporary and he will go. RSC, SWP, Bridge, Ade, Jo and several others will be moved on and their positions strengthened by other (hopefully better) players. Our youngsters; both Johnnos, Boyata, Weiss, Richards and others will either be brought on or shipped out. The like of Kollarov, Silva, Ballotelli and Boateng will eventually settle down This present squad is still in a massive state of change and we are nowhere near the levels that we will eventually be. We are still very much in a state of huge changes and those changes will continue for some considerable time.

Add to the above, that it is unlikely that all of those changes will be successful and that some bought players will probably need to be themselves replaced and it becomes quite obvious that this project is going to take the time we were told it would by the club, Hughes and now Mancini.
CL qualification is the holy grail...(like it or not) even at the expense of other more accessible trophies. It is a long journey to the very top....and we must remember that the big picture will always be the important one.

Good post mate and I'd suggest near 100% of people will agree with your assessment. However, has Mancini actually shown that he can do the job so far, with the players at his disposal?

I mentioned that I'll give him 3 games, and the reason for that is not down to our run of results, but down to our actual game-play and tactical awareness. Many say we need time to gel or he needs to get his own players, but in my opinion he should be able to get decent performances from the squad we have, not taking gambles when we are in a position to get a decent result.

Also, 3 games have passed without any joy and we have 3 difficult games coming up in a very short period of time that is going to be a drain on the squad, even one of our size. Brom, Scum and Brum in a 6 day period, after 2 games in 4 days could do irreparable damage to our season, and even more to our winning mentality that Mancini is trying to instill. I can just about live with the defensive performances and the somewhat 'Risky' tactical decisions, but what I can't live with is both of these that lead to a loss.

Mancini is his own man who will live and die by his decisions, so now he needs to make the right ones and make them work. If they do, I'll support him like every single manager that we've had, but if he fails, then I won't be adverse to giving him a public slating.

[MaineRoadMemories]

Anyone want to change their vote from this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=119&t=28819&p=61538&hilit=mancini#p61538

[Crossie]

Mancini needs to do a Joe Mercer when we're 2-0 down to West Brom at half time.

Walk into the dressing room "you've got yourselves into this mess, so you get yourselves out of it" - walk out, close door on them for 15 mins.

[Longball]

they picked a transition manager n we're gettin transition type results- even the players know at this stage that mancini was never long term hence why they are pissing around the pitch

[Blue2]

they picked a transition manager n we're gettin transition type results- even the players know at this stage that mancini was never long term hence why they are pissing around the pitch

On basis do you say this?

[Beefymcfc]

they picked a transition manager n we're gettin transition type results- even the players know at this stage that mancini was never long term hence why they are pissing around the pitch

3 years and 6 months, was it really true?

Seems they've backed him since, so it must've been a decent transitional coach don't you think?

Next you'll be telling me we were all over 'The Special One' (tosser by the way).

[Murph]

Our Squad is still way too weak in certain area's, and we won't get to where we want to be until it's addressed. I wasn't the slightest bit surprised we got turned over in Poland. The back 4 that started the game and Vierra and Zaba in midfield was ability wise, no more than a poor to average prem team for those positions.

[Beefymcfc]

Our Squad is still way too weak in certain area's, and we won't get to where we want to be until it's addressed. I wasn't the slightest bit surprised we got turned over in Poland. The back 4 that started the game and Vierra and Zaba in midfield was ability wise, no more than a poor to average prem team for those positions.

Due respect, are you telling me we haven't the squad to win.......................?

Time for bed I think, which is something I don't normally do.

[Murph]

Our Squad is still way too weak in certain area's, and we won't get to where we want to be until it's addressed. I wasn't the slightest bit surprised we got turned over in Poland. The back 4 that started the game and Vierra and Zaba in midfield was ability wise, no more than a poor to average prem team for those positions.

Due respect, are you telling me we haven't the squad to win.......................?

To win what? The league? No we haven't.

Look at the 4 players who started in defence last night and Vierra and Zaba as midfielders, how many of those 6 players are top class in your opinion?

[Beefymcfc]

Our Squad is still way too weak in certain area's, and we won't get to where we want to be until it's addressed. I wasn't the slightest bit surprised we got turned over in Poland. The back 4 that started the game and Vierra and Zaba in midfield was ability wise, no more than a poor to average prem team for those positions.

Due respect, are you telling me we haven't the squad to win.......................?

To win what? The league? No we haven't.

Look at the 4 players who started in defence last night and Vierra and Zaba as midfielders, how many of those 6 players are top class in your opinion?

That's where we disagree then. The problem isn't the players but the way they are managed. Let's take last night for instance, how many of those players have had a decent run in the side? You guessed it, only Milner has played regularly.

Mancini stated that it is a squad game and that everyone would get a run-out, but the reality is he hasn't managed that correctly and rotated them properly to ensure they are all fresh for games, instead choosing to play his near best squad for each league game. Now, I know that the league is the priority this year and totally agree with it, but what is happening is that when one of those 'A' team players gets an injury, such as Carlos, then the whole system goes to pot. What should be happening is 1 or 2 players rotating through the team throughout the season to ensure that all areas are covered and that players get time on the field instead of just throwing 2 separate teams out for different competitions.

We have the players to win the league, but we don't yet have the fore-thought to take us there.

[Ted Hughes]

Our Squad is still way too weak in certain area's, and we won't get to where we want to be until it's addressed. I wasn't the slightest bit surprised we got turned over in Poland. The back 4 that started the game and Vierra and Zaba in midfield was ability wise, no more than a poor to average prem team for those positions.

Due respect, are you telling me we haven't the squad to win.......................?

To win what? The league? No we haven't.

Look at the 4 players who started in defence last night and Vierra and Zaba as midfielders, how many of those 6 players are top class in your opinion?

That's where we disagree then. The problem isn't the players but the way they are managed. Let's take last night for instance, how many of those players have had a decent run in the side? You guessed it, only Milner has played regularly.

Mancini stated that it is a squad game and that everyone would get a run-out, but the reality is he hasn't managed that correctly and rotated them properly to ensure they are all fresh for games, instead choosing to play his near best squad for each league game. Now, I know that the league is the priority this year and totally agree with it, but what is happening is that when one of those 'A' team players gets an injury, such as Carlos, then the whole system goes to pot. What should be happening is 1 or 2 players rotating through the team throughout the season to ensure that all areas are covered and that players get time on the field instead of just throwing 2 separate teams out for different competitions.

We have the players to win the league, but we don't yet have the fore-thought to take us there.

Very few sides have two quality players in every position, in fact none really do. The difference is; we keep putting untried or 2nd string players together next to each other, sometimes in all areas, at the same time. Other managers just use the squad system to fill the odd gap or rotate the odd player, we sometimes put 6 in who've barely ever played together, in pairs, in new jobs, in ever changing formations. Other clubs only do that at home in the League Cup. It comes as no surprise to me that we're getting beat. The question in my mind is whether those players will adapt & learn to play in those circumstances or whether Mancini will stop doing it. If the answer to both questions is no, he's a goner.