Blue glasses off - are we better than the rags?

[DoomMerchant]

They have the knowhow and fear factor to win the Prem League. We dont, but winning the FA Cup will deffo make other teams situp and take note of us.Couple of tweeks to our team and we will be thereabouts i reckon.
Next season will be a corker im sure.

Just like it did for Portsmouth.

Agreed let's bring Harry in, get some envelopes stuffed and prepare for the drop. Full speed ahead.

Cheers

[beehive's dodgy pint]

We haven't built our house yet. First bricks have gone down but to get to rags and Barca standards of consistent winning mentality we need a tight knit group of players. We need a talisman (a la Messi/Tevez) and ideally a hardcore group of players who have grown up or developed together. A manager who has the balls to control the prima donnas and a bit of luck. We have got the ingredients and we are well on our way but to become a spicy meatball we need a couple of years of regular winning.

[Rae4685]

Hart - but that's because Der Sar retired yesterday...

Zabaleta
Rio
Vidic
Evra

Silva
De Jong
Toure
Nani

Rooney
Tevez

Exactly as I would have it except Kompany for Ferdinand. Do you genuinely believe at this moment in time rio is better than Vincent???

[ant london]

We have the potential to be better and you can say that we should have taken more chances and been capable of having shown over the past season that we are better...

BUT

We didn't and the table doesn't lie. Yes, they won the PL by being "less shit" than the chasing mini pack but we were inherently more shit and that's why we were joint second.

I echo others' points that the issue is not a talent shortage/deficit between us and them. It is the mentality with which they approach matches, never letting up and (even when behind) keeping going in the belief that they can pull it back/go ahead. That is partly nurture rather than nature and is borne of experience of doing it and believing it possible.

I firmly believe that this team will mentally be a different beast next season....esp after having not stumbled against them in the semi, stoke in the final, spurs, stoke and then bolton. Those results weren't just a team in form, they were results secured by a team that BELIEVED it could do it. That is one of the biggest sources of optimism for me re next season

[beehive's dodgy pint]

We have the potential to be better and you can say that we should have taken more chances and been capable of having shown over the past season that we are better...

BUT

We didn't and the table doesn't lie. Yes, they won the PL by being "less shit" than the chasing mini pack but we were inherently more shit and that's why we were joint second.

I echo others' points that the issue is not a talent shortage/deficit between us and them. It is the mentality with which they approach matches, never letting up and (even when behind) keeping going in the belief that they can pull it back/go ahead. That is partly nurture rather than nature and is borne of experience of doing it and believing it possible.

I firmly believe that this team will mentally be a different beast next season....esp after having not stumbled against them in the semi, stoke in the final, spurs, stoke and then bolton. Those results weren't just a team in form, they were results secured by a team that BELIEVED it could do it. That is one of the biggest sources of optimism for me re next season

Absolutely agree. The finish to the season is great cause for optimism. I think it showed our squad strength, Bobby's training/fitness regime and the way the squad has grown a togetherness. That alone can scrape you some late wins. I think we are close to getting the winning mentality over the course of a season which, for City, is not a thing I have been used to in my lifetime. Instead of going into the last 15 minutes of games thinking "we are going to throw this away", I can genuinely start to feel a weird confidence I have never had forming!!

[ashton287]

No, for the simple and undeniable fact that ferguson is the best manager in the world and probably of all time. Detestable cunt that he is it is true.

Talent wise i would say there are players in our team that are better in their roles and there are players in their team better then ours. All over we are better but taggart is a baaaaaad joke that will keep the rags at the top.

When he is gone they will be liverpool.

[MaineRoadMemories]

We have a better pool of talented players who are learning
They have experience and a proper team ethic plus a never lose attitude

As much as I hate to admit it the difference between the two squads is their manager. He's worth an extra 15 points a season alone.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Of course we are.

[s1ty m]

Overall? No, they are better as a team even though I think we got better individuals. Would we do better vs barca? Yes, but we would still lose 2 out of 3 vs them.

We have beat them the last three times we have played them.

Not true, sadly: last 7, 2 seasons worth: 3-4, 2-1, 1-3, 0-1, 0-0, 1-2, 1-0. Won 2, drew 1, lost 4.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Look how many late goals United get. When was the last time we won a game in the last 5 minutes? I can't even remember.

[Alioune DVToure]

Look how many late goals United get. When was the last time we won a game in the last 5 minutes? I can't even remember.

So what?

My opinion on the whole matter is this:

GK: Depends who they get

DF: Them (just, we're getting close)

MF: Us (by a mile)

ATT: Equal

I reckon we have a more valuable squad at the minute. All of our best players are 22-27 whilst theirs - Rooney, Nani and Little Prick excepted - are 29+.

I see us finishing above them next year if they don't sort out their midfield.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Because until we develop a mentality and start winning games late on we'll never be as good. They win the league because of the amount of late goals they get.

[Alioune DVToure]

Because until we develop a mentality and start winning games late on we'll never be as good. They win the league because of the amount of late goals they get.

I don't quite buy your argument but fair enough, whatever.

In my opinion, we'll win the league when we start scoring first and then controlling the game away from home. Just like we did at West Ham, Bolton, West Brom and Fulham this season, but on a more regular basis.

[Ted Hughes]

We have a better pool of talented players who are learning
They have experience and a proper team ethic plus a never lose attitude

As much as I hate to admit it the difference between the two squads is their manager. He's worth an extra 15 points a season alone.

There's a lot of truth in that, but I'm sure we all know; it wasn't the case in the early part of his career. He spent an absolutely obscene amount of money ( in those days, at least equal to or greater than our total spend now) then finished near the bottom 3, got dicked by us & was hated & thought of as a clown by Utd fans.

Bob (& Hughes) have done a lot better than he did in the initial phase imo, baring in mind the position of Utd when he took over, (already title challengers & cupwinners) compared to the job needed at City (won fuck all for 35 years & perpetual losers/ bottlers).

Bob has already tactically bettered him in a cup semi; a watershed for our club. The psychological stuff neede next should be helped hugely by that win, the Spurs win, top 3 & of course the cup final win.

[john68]

Personally, I think at this present moment...we are better than the rags.
Just as the 1968 derby at the swamp proved to be the critical point in our overtaking them then, I think beating them in the semi final will prove to be the point where we pulled alongside and nudged ahead.
Both clubs learned a lot about each other in that game and probably a lot about themselves. As the game went on we improved. We learned that we have nothing to fear from them and that when they give it their all we could stand up to them and beat them. That lesson was an important one for our confidence and belief. They learned that when they gave it their all, it wasn't enough. They learned that they could lose to us.

Simply saying that the rags are better because they won the league is nonsense. the season is a long one and our big improvement came only at the end of it. Most of it gained from the confidence we got from that semi.

[Ted Hughes]

Personally, I think at this present moment...we are better than the rags.
Just as the 1968 derby at the swamp proved to be the critical point in our overtaking them then, I think beating them in the semi final will prove to be the point where we pulled alongside and nudged ahead.
Both clubs learned a lot about each other in that game and probably a lot about themselves. As the game went on we improved. We learned that we have nothing to fear from them and that when they give it their all we could stand up to them and beat them. That lesson was an important one for our confidence and belief. They learned that when they gave it their all, it wasn't enough. They learned that they could lose to us.

Simply saying that the rags are better because they won the league is nonsense. the season is a long one and our big improvement came only at the end of it. Most of it gained from the confidence we got from that semi.

The fact that we've been playing better recently, means we have much optimism to think we could be better than the rags next season, but it shouldn't be forgotton that Chelsea started last season much better than them. What we did at the end of the season means nothing now, unless we carry it on through a season. The rags were better than us over 38 games. When we finish above them after 38 games, we can say we're a better team.

[Im_Spartacus]

Look how many late goals United get. When was the last time we won a game in the last 5 minutes? I can't even remember.

A friend of mine showed me this league table "if" games finished at half time. United were top, we were still 3 points behind, which shows that the majority of the difference between the sides is United's ability to turn around the West Ham and Blackpool games away from home, both from 2.0 down - neither of which we could have done.

Interestingly, Blackburn were 5th which shows how spineless they are, but look at the "spirit" Hodgson must have instilled in West Brom, 20 points at half time, didnt they finish on nearly 50?

[Im_Spartacus]

Look how many late goals United get. When was the last time we won a game in the last 5 minutes? I can't even remember.

So what?

My opinion on the whole matter is this:

GK: Depends who they get

DF: Them (just, we're getting close)

MF: Us (by a mile)

ATT: Equal

I reckon we have a more valuable squad at the minute. All of our best players are 22-27 whilst theirs - Rooney, Nani and Little Prick excepted - are 29+.

I see us finishing above them next year if they don't sort out their midfield.

Yet the statistics would disagree with you entirely. We had a better defensive record and scored many goals less (because our midfield doesnt really contribute to goals in the league), which suggests that the difference between the two sides this year was most likely down to Mancini's mentality and approach, allied with Fergie's belief that they can win any game.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

We have a better pool of talented players who are learning
They have experience and a proper team ethic plus a never lose attitude

As much as I hate to admit it the difference between the two squads is their manager. He's worth an extra 15 points a season alone.

Not going to miss a chance at having a pop at Mancini any given chance. Hughes didn't work out and is gone, get over it. You hated Mancini coming in from the day one and have been having a go at him any given chance. Well he got us joint second and FA Cup win. You need to get over yourself on this one.

For the record, Mancini is MILES further than taggart was at this stage of his career with rags.

[Im_Spartacus]

Also interesting to note their HUGE struggle in away games in the league this season, they only won 5, and 4 of them were highly controversial

[*]Stoke - Neville should have been sent off, were being played off the park, went on to win 2.1
[*]West Brom - Neville should have been sent off, were being played off the park, went on to win 2.1
[*]Blackpool - Blackpool were always going to fade badly, but blatent penalty refused when 2.0 up should have seen Blackpool home and would have been a bridge too far for even United.
[*]Wigan - Rooney should have been sent off, they were winning from early on 1.0 but were being out played in every dept before 3 very late goals.

In each game, a mune committed an offence which was clearly a red card (or penalty) to any right thinking person. In 3 of the games, the fact that they kept 11 on the pitch in games they were being overwhelmed in, no doubt contributed to the belief they could win the game. With 10 men, in each game they would have sunk, as they were being majorly outplayed in each of the games above.

Basically, an incredible home form won this league for them, along with a handful of very fortuitious results, each involving a very very curious decision from a referee which went on to change the game.

What makes this league form all the more strange is that they didnt concede a goal away from home in the CL all the way to the final.