A question for the wrinklies

[Beeks]

How good is this side compared to the Mercer era?

[BobbyJ1956]

The most obvious difference is the strength in depth of the modern squad over what was available in the '60s & '70s. But man for man, Hart is the better goalkeeper. Richards and Kompany better at the back, Aguero up front better than Franny Lee. For the creative playmaker of the team, David Silva could become the most brilliant player ever to wear a City shirt, a genius like they say Peter Doherty was, but it's too soon to say he's already better than the proven legend of Colin Bell. Adam Johnson not as good as Neil Young. Mario Balotelli far better than Tony Coleman and dafter and more lovable with it.
Regarding managers. no one, not even Mancini, can ever improve on the combined talents of Joe Mercer and Malcolm Allison, and I don't think we'll ever see Mancini popping out of his office for a bacon butty at the greasy spoon cafe across the road like Joe used to.

[Goaters 103]

Spoke to my Dad last night and he said the strength in depth is the difference, and certainly Joe Hart is also an upgrade.

To be able to bring Nasri, Dzeko, De Jong, Zabba, Kolo, Kolarov etc off the bench if needed, was the gist of his point.

[s1ty m]

My old man reckons this is the best side he's seen and he goes back to the 50s. 1977 was very good and I can vouch for that, but this lot are currently way better. Bell was amazing. Tueart too. Silva...right up there.

[Kladze]

I object to being called a wrinklie. ;-)

I would say that this team is the best we've had. Easy on the eye too and, so far this season, managing to get results even when not firing on all cylinders.

You do have to remember it was a different game in many many respects back then though and Allison was way ahead of his time with regards to tactics and tactical adjustments - the centre forward (Lee) dropping deep and/or drifting wide was a (rigid) centre half's nightmare for instance.

Mancini is also 'clever' though and able to stay cool enough to make the right decisions at the right time - often quite gutsy ones.

All in all I'd take the current team on its day, and I never EVER thought I would say that.

If only we could unearth a Colin Bell .............

[craigmcfc]

Come on John, a thread specifically aimed at you and you're still tinkering around with your internet connection!

[ruralblue]

Come on John, a thread specifically aimed at you and you're still tinkering around with your internet connection!

Think he's driving Balo round Manchester!

[Chinners]

Until the current squad win the league I'll reserve judgement ...

[feedthegreek]

im 54 so i saw bell etc, great side you knew you were gonna tonk scum
most of the time, up until yesterday after the match, ive been hoping wed tonk scum
but not really that confident we would. mercer was a gent ,allison a great coach.
the players were as skillful then as they are now. colin bell best city player ive seen.
but this season its the best football ive seen for along long time, going back to the mercer era.
and we really look a great team now, like we did in joes days.

[Alex Sapphire]

How good is this side compared to the Mercer era?

In 1967/8 we were better than the eventual European Champions, week in week out.
They had the holy trinity of Charlton, Best and our Denis
We beat them 3-1 at theirs

Could we beat the best in Europe now, cos those sad rag twats we smashed this weekend were not that.

this is a good side, a good squad, but please let's not compare them with our best yet

[Mikhail Chigorin]

In the 67/68 side, I loved George Heslop to pieces but, as a centre half he was crudeness personified and made Andy Morrison look cultured. Kompany is many times better than Big George could ever dream of being. When Tommy Booth came into the side in '69, he was a quantum leap forward, but IMHO he was still not as good as VK. The centre half situation gets problematic only when you move up to Dave Watson, who was a magnificent defender. I'd have to say Dave Watson was better than Vincent is, at the moment. but in the next few years, that assessment may have to be revised.

Arguably, Mike Doyle was better than either Lescott or Kolo and he would have fitted perfectly, in today's team, alongside VK. Doyley was the ultimate competitor.

Colin Bell was like no other and would walk into ANY team, of ANY era, playing in ANY position.

We never got to really see how good Glyn Pardoe could have been because his career was cut cruelly short by a cowardly, cheating piece of skullduggery from that cretinous Scumbag George Best but, to be fair, I think Clichy is the better full back overall and could become one of the all time greats for City.

Alan Oakes was the Gareth Barry of his time (we used to call him Mr Reliable), but Barry is the much better player in my book.

I'd say Mike Summerbee (rather than Neil Young) is the direct comparison to Adam Johnson and, on that basis, it's no contest. They used to say Buzzer wrapped his skill up in barbed wire, as he was one hard man to avoid getting into contact with and, back in the day, when the sportswriters on one occasion banded together to pick a theoretical team of the hardest men in English football, 'The Bee' was the only out and out forward who was nominated for it.

I wouldn't like to have to choose between Lee and Aguero but, if pushed, I'd have to go for our Argentinian assassin and, as his potential is so frightening, he could become one of the world's all time greats.

My own personal favourite from the Joe Mercer era is Neil Young (once described by Joe, prior to the 1969 Cup Final, as being "as smooth as silk") and I think he would merit a place in the current side, possibly at the expense of Dzeko. However, when you compare him with Balotelli, it gets very difficult as SuperMario has it all, plus the prospect of future greatness - and he's still only just 21.

In the 67/68 side, Tony Coleman was always described as being "barnstorming". He was very direct but lacked a lot of finesse and after that particular season, he lost his place in the side to Tony Towers who had started off in the youth and reserve teams as a full back, but then moved into midfield to do a sort of Nigel de Jong job. Needless to say, Big Nige wins that comparison hands down.

The 67/68 side and thereafter never had anyone like David Silva.....and we haven't even started to consider the merits and potential of Samir Nasri.

All in all, although it pains me a little to say it, IMHO the current team, even in it's present state of development, is appreciably better than the one from the earlier era, which is not to denigrate Joe Mercer's City in any shape or form. The strength in depth of the current squad is terrifying and the potential of what they could be capable of, is even more so.

If they stay together for the next five years or so, we're all in for a lovely ride watching them play compelling and beautiful football. Long may it continue and then we can all stop thinking wistfully about the side from the late sixties.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

In the 67/68 side, I loved George Heslop to pieces but, as a centre half he was crudeness personified and made Andy Morrison look cultured. Kompany is many times better than Big George could ever dream of being. When Tommy Booth came into the side in '69, he was a quantum leap forward, but IMHO he was still not as good as VK. The centre half situation gets problematic only when you move up to Dave Watson, who was a magnificent defender. I'd have to say Dave Watson was better than Vincent is, at the moment. but in the next few years, that assessment may have to be revised.

Arguably, Mike Doyle was better than either Lescott or Kolo and he would have fitted perfectly, in today's team, alongside VK. Doyley was the ultimate competitor.

Colin Bell was like no other and would walk into ANY team, of ANY era, playing in ANY position.

We never got to really see how good Glyn Pardoe could have been because his career was cut cruelly short by a cowardly, cheating piece of skullduggery from that cretinous Scumbag George Best but, to be fair, I think Clichy is the better full back overall and could become one of the all time greats for City.

Alan Oakes was the Gareth Barry of his time (we used to call him Mr Reliable), but Barry is the much better player in my book.

I'd say Mike Summerbee (rather than Neil Young) is the direct comparison to Adam Johnson and, on that basis, it's no contest. They used to say Buzzer wrapped his skill up in barbed wire, as he was one hard man to avoid getting into contact with and, back in the day, when the sportswriters on one occasion banded together to pick a theoretical team of the hardest men in English football, 'The Bee' was the only out and out forward who was nominated for it.

I wouldn't like to have to choose between Lee and Aguero but, if pushed, I'd have to go for our Argentinian assassin and, as his potential is so frightening, he could become one of the world's all time greats.

My own personal favourite from the Joe Mercer era is Neil Young (once described by Joe, prior to the 1969 Cup Final, as being "as smooth as silk") and I think he would merit a place in the current side, possibly at the expense of Dzeko. However, when you compare him with Balotelli, it gets very difficult as SuperMario has it all, plus the prospect of future greatness - and he's still only just 21.

In the 67/68 side, Tony Coleman was always described as being "barnstorming". He was very direct but lacked a lot of finesse and after that particular season, he lost his place in the side to Tony Towers who had started off in the youth and reserve teams as a full back, but then moved into midfield to do a sort of Nigel de Jong job. Needless to say, Big Nige wins that comparison hands down.

The 67/68 side and thereafter never had anyone like David Silva.....and we haven't even started to consider the merits and potential of Samir Nasri.

All in all, although it pains me a little to say it, IMHO the current team, even in it's present state of development, is appreciably better than the one from the earlier era, which is not to denigrate Joe Mercer's City in any shape or form. The strength in depth of the current squad is terrifying and the potential of what they could be capable of, is even more so.

If they stay together for the next five years or so, we're all in for a lovely ride watching them play compelling and beautiful football. Long may it continue and then we can all stop thinking wistfully about the side from the late sixties.

Top response that and I would agree with almost all of it.Pardoe was a strange one for me a right footed player playing left back. No good in the air as he was quite small but somehow quite effective but yes Clichy for me. Oakes and Barry are a great comparison and i think they are too close to call.Oakes was somehow never capped but should have been.

Not sure about Aguero though before Franny. Aguero has to do a bit more for a bit longer for me.What about Tony Book v Micah? So so different and I am loathe to go for Micah as Tony Book was very good as a full back and a great captain but not up to much going forward.

Today's overall squad is miles better but that team was a great team for a few years.

[Beeks]

Thanks for the responses guys..I guess at 38 years old it's hard to imagine a title winning team as anyone under 40 has never experienced it..you hear of City legends from the past and personally I've always been a little jealous of the older blues who tasted that success

Now we are on the brink again and I finally feel that all those years of swimming through shit is finally paying off

It's good to be part of the City Family

[getdressedmctavish]

I think one has to remember we scoured lancashire and cheshire for most of these lads, not the feckin universe. Summerbee was the foreignor, from Swindon! So lets be realistic.lol

[s1ty m]

Aquero before Lee. Really tough one. Kun could go and and be an all-time great, I totally agree with that. He seems to be playing with plenty to spare and has scored how many? Crazy. Lee was ridiculously good though, really a top player for City and a legend. A real pity his Chairmanship was such a disaster and I think it has clouded his playing contribution, with some.

[john@staustell]

It's 10 times better, there is no comparison. In truth after we won the league it was season after season of starting well then just avoiding relegation in amongst the cups, until the 'Rodney Marsh' season when we competed again. Then only when the old team was dismantled did we get back up top with Watson, Tueart, Hartford etc. IMHO that was a better team, but only won the league cup. Liverpool had emerged.

In 1968 we had some good talent from around the Manchester area, drinking a fair amount of ale before and after matches.

Nowadys we have the best players in the world.

Comparison? No.

[getdressedmctavish]

John has got it right there. This was an era of parks football when the debate was whether a skinful of champagne the night before training was less detrimental than one of beer. Tony Coleman opted for the latter and progressive management concluded he had to go, lol. The main tactic was the far post cross where rugged centreforwards constantly nodded it past isolated midgets in goal.There were no black players, no europeans,no 11 man defensive systems, and athleticism was only having one fag at half time. Was Mal ahead of his time? Were the players a delight? course they were. But it had as much in common with what we are watching today as a Ford Consul has with a 2011 Ford Mondeo.Its actually debatable whether any of those players could have come through the modern international scouting and club academy system.Perhaps two, I would say. Bell and Lee.But remember, we got Lee from Bolton and Bell from Bury.We wouldn't even be looking there today.

[Yffi_88]

Everything is to a much higher spec nowadays from the diet to the training, the technology etc. Even if the old boys had it in them, the pitches, balls, kits, boots, preparation etc etc wouldn't have allowed them to perform to today's standard imho.

I can't speak first hand about this but surely any of our current squad would be better over the 90 minutes than the 60's lads.

[Yffi_88]

And wasnt everything in black and white back then anyway?

[steveo_88]

John has got it right there. This was an era of parks football when the debate was whether a skinful of champagne the night before training was less detrimental than one of beer. Tony Coleman opted for the latter and progressive management concluded he had to go, lol. The main tactic was the far post cross where rugged centreforwards constantly nodded it past isolated midgets in goal.There were no black players, no europeans,no 11 man defensive systems, and athleticism was only having one fag at half time. Was Mal ahead of his time? Were the players a delight? course they were. But it had as much in common with what we are watching today as a Ford Consul has with a 2011 Ford Mondeo.Its actually debatable whether any of those players could have come through the modern international scouting and club academy system.Perhaps two, I would say. Bell and Lee.[highlight]But remember, we got Lee from Bolton and Bell from Bury.We wouldn't even be looking there today[/highlight].

That's not entirely true. Richards was taken from Oldham and Joe Hart from Shrewsbury when in League two. We still have to fill our quota of English players because even if we get the best from around the world at an early age don't we still need a number of UK born players?

One of the top prospects at the moment is Harry Bunn whom I'm hoping can be better than his dad Frankie. If he does exceed Frankie Bunn then this lad is going to be one heck of a striker at the highest level! I'm sure there are plenty on here who can remember seeing Frankie Bunn play on Oldham Athletics plastic pitch in the first couple of Premiership seasons?