1-6 was a wake up call - yeah yeah yeah

[Dameerto]

This thread is approaching 'Is Scott Parker really that good?' levels of cyclical debate and sheer tedium.

[highlight]Would Scott Parker improve United's midfield?[/highlight]

Of course he would.. look at the stats, Spurs have a better form than the rags so that just proves it !

Seriously though I actually think he would. And while I'm at it, i think Spurs are now better than the rags..

will they beat them though later in the season?

Oh no! What the fuck have you started now?

They could always get themselves a proper rightback too, instead of playing defenders out of position. Someone like Lahm.

[Alioune DVToure]

This thread is approaching 'Is Scott Parker really that good?' levels of cyclical debate and sheer tedium.

[highlight]Would Scott Parker improve United's midfield?[/highlight]

Of course he would.. look at the stats, Spurs have a better form than the rags so that just proves it !

Seriously though I actually think he would. And while I'm at it, i think Spurs are now better than the rags..

will they beat them though later in the season?

Oh no! What the fuck have you started now?

They could always get themselves a proper rightback too, instead of playing defenders out of position. Someone like Lahm.

Perhaps if they'd tightened up earlier they wouldn't have been lahms to the slaughter in the derby.

[Cocacolajojo1]

I just wish Ted's posting style was more frequent and elaborate so I could understand the point he is trying to make. He's a bit like this forum's equivalent to Scotty Parker.

Btw I think he's wrong. United are not better than City.

[zuricity]

I just wish Ted's posting style was more frequent and elaborate so I could understand the point he is trying to make. He's a bit like this forum's equivalent to Scotty Parker.

Btw I think he's wrong. United are not better than City.

Do you mean "he's here, there, and everyf*cking where .... scotty parker, scotty parker! " ?

[david yearsley]

Entertaining and passionate debate. I mainly agree with Ted and BBS (as I often do!) . For the last few years I´ve been scratching my head as to how these fuclers have managed to keep adding to their already burgeoning honours list , whilst the decline in their standard of play has been self evident. The selling of Cristina was the starting pistol , followed by the predictable decline in the form and physical capcity of Taggart´s "babes" Wio lost it a couple of years back and now VDS and Ginge have retired. Coupled with this the Glazers have seen to it that resources have not been made available for top drawer replacements and the pisscan has had to "rough it" with a couple of dark horse punts here and there.
The winning mentality and sheer self belief is still there but has dissipated to the point it is now hanging by a thread. The swamp has always had that intimidating factor (nothing whatsoever to do with the fans btw) and teams have been overawed by simply coming out of the tunnel . Then they have had the luck. Fergie time, bad decisions , teams turning up with understrength sides , cup draws (that´ll probably never change thanks to Sky et al) etc...
Slowly though, one by one , I can see the tide shifting in all the aforementioned areas , even to the point that some refs are now simply not falling for purlenoses antics anymore. They´ve lost the fear. They can see his demise in sight in the way only an impartial official can and a pundit/sycophantic press can´t (or won´t)
I have laid before you some of the indicators which direct me to my conclusions. As with economics, unemployment rates are always seen as the lagging indicator. In the rag´s case that indicator is results. The conditions are all in place for that particular index to head sharply into reverse.

[guv111]

Teddy Sherringham said last week that playing for Utd is different than playing for any other club. He said: "Everyone tries that exra bit harder to beat you OR EVEN GET A DRAW". That 'trying extra hard' quote is one used by ex players, ex managers, media pundits etc etc for years when discussing the wonderfulness of Utd; they still come through even though everyone tries 'extra hard' against them. I am saying that the 'extra hard' effect, which may once have made winning the title more difficult for them, now represents 'extra nervous' & actually beats teams before they play them.

Or they don't even try. It's now reached the stage where certain managers put their reserves out against United rather than tire players for "more winnable" games, and this is despite the fact that even lowly sides like Norwich have come close to beating them. Talk about an uneven playing field. It was said (maybe still is) that United get easy points every season from their old boys network of ex-players who are now managers, and looking at Steve Bruce Blames' record it certainly carries some weight, but what is even more apparent is that there are managers out there who will roll over before a ball has been kicked by purposefully "resting" most of their best eleven players. If it was cup football I'd have no problem, but when one club is given easy points every season because other clubs refuse to make a proper match of it you are discrediting the whole point of a league.

[Beefymcfc]

The problem is that whatever you think of the Rag performances they will normally always win them. Why, because he's got 3/4 of the other league managers in his pocket.

Anyone see the interview with Pardew before our game last week where he said we were the best team at the moment, only to then say he'll have to apologise to 'Sir Alex' for his comments.

Don't expect anything from the Toon today, you'll only be disappointed.

[guv111]

Anyone see the interview with Pardew before our game last week where he said we were the best team at the moment, only to then say he'll have to apologise to 'Sir Alex' for his comments.

A very unhealthy, incestuous and bizarre state of affairs which Ferguson has created by welcoming naive and inexperienced managers into his domain for post-match drinkies and "informal" chat. The gullible feel so overawed to be in his presence that they leave feeling giddy just to have spent quality time with the "great man".

[Beefymcfc]

Anyone see the interview with Pardew before our game last week where he said we were the best team at the moment, only to then say he'll have to apologise to 'Sir Alex' for his comments.

A very unhealthy, incestuous and bizarre state of affairs which Ferguson has created by welcoming naive and inexperienced managers into his domain for post-match drinkies and "informal" chat. The gullible feel so overawed to be in his presence that they leave feeling giddy just to have spent quality time with the "great man".

Jedi mind trick - 'Let me win and one day you too could be has powerful as me'.

[PeterParker]

So we have Pardew, Mcleish, Moses, Warnock, Bruce, did i miss someone?

[Ted Hughes]

So we have Pardew, Mcleish, Moses, Warnock, Bruce, did i miss someone?

Pulis.

Then there's his old time lickers & PR men; Harry & (most years) Fat Sam.

First game of the season Harry actually put a weakened side out at OT as he had a few players with 'niggles' & wanted to make sure they were fit to play us. Sure enough they were all fit as a fiddle v us but it turned out we were twice as good as the rags & shoved it up his arse.

[Alioune DVToure]

So we have Pardew, Mcleish, [highlight]Moses[/highlight], Warnock, Bruce, did i miss someone?

Is he the manager who receives his team selection from on high and submits two stone tablets instead of a teamsheet? Old school.

[Patrick]

Entertaining and passionate debate. I mainly agree with Ted and BBS (as I often do!) . For the last few years I´ve been scratching my head as to how these fuclers have managed to keep adding to their already burgeoning honours list , whilst the decline in their standard of play has been self evident.

The selling of Cristina was the starting pistol , followed by the predictable decline in the form and physical capcity of Taggart´s "babes" Wio lost it a couple of years back and now VDS and Ginge have retired. Coupled with this the Glazers have seen to it that resources have not been made available for top drawer replacements and the pisscan has had to "rough it" with a couple of dark horse punts here and there.

The winning mentality and sheer self belief is still there but has dissipated to the point it is now hanging by a thread. The swamp has always had that intimidating factor (nothing whatsoever to do with the fans btw) and teams have been overawed by simply coming out of the tunnel .

Then they have had the luck. Fergie time, bad decisions , teams turning up with understrength sides , cup draws (that´ll probably never change thanks to Sky et al) etc...

Slowly though, one by one , I can see the tide shifting in all the aforementioned areas , even to the point that some refs are now simply not falling for purplenoses antics anymore. They´ve lost the fear. They can see his demise in sight in the way only an impartial official can and a pundit/sycophantic press can´t (or won´t)

Very well put, no one is scared of the scum anymore, it used to be like a one goal advantage whenever they played, but not any more. Neither have Liverpool, arse or chel$ski (can I still use the dollar sign).... I know we have only been doing this for 20 matches or so, but it would seem to me that we are the feared team now

Edit... Just seen the scum barcode result. Yep wake up call thats what it is, they're on fire now hahahahahaha

[david yearsley]

Entertaining and passionate debate. I mainly agree with Ted and BBS (as I often do!) . For the last few years I´ve been scratching my head as to how these fuclers have managed to keep adding to their already burgeoning honours list , whilst the decline in their standard of play has been self evident.

The selling of Cristina was the starting pistol , followed by the predictable decline in the form and physical capcity of Taggart´s "babes" Wio lost it a couple of years back and now VDS and Ginge have retired. Coupled with this the Glazers have seen to it that resources have not been made available for top drawer replacements and the pisscan has had to "rough it" with a couple of dark horse punts here and there.

The winning mentality and sheer self belief is still there but has dissipated to the point it is now hanging by a thread. The swamp has always had that intimidating factor (nothing whatsoever to do with the fans btw) and teams have been overawed by simply coming out of the tunnel .

Then they have had the luck. Fergie time, bad decisions , teams turning up with understrength sides , cup draws (that´ll probably never change thanks to Sky et al) etc...

Slowly though, one by one , I can see the tide shifting in all the aforementioned areas , even to the point that some refs are now simply not falling for purplenoses antics anymore. They´ve lost the fear. They can see his demise in sight in the way only an impartial official can and a pundit/sycophantic press can´t (or won´t)

Very well put, no one is scared of the scum anymore, it used to be like a one goal advantage whenever they played, but not any more. Neither have Liverpool, arse or chel$ski (can I still use the dollar sign).... I know we have only been doing this for 20 matches or so, but it would seem to me that we are the feared team now

And once again a ref at the swamp has had the cojones to give decisions against them AND hopefully report pisscan to our David so he can have enviable pleasure of sending the twat to the stands again

He banned Fergie once , he banned the cnut twice
When Bernstein´s finished, he´ll be like fried rice

[Beefymcfc]

Seems they just keep winning. Oh, wait.......

[freshie]

So we have Pardew, Mcleish, Moses, Warnock, Bruce, did i miss someone?

Moses? Which team does he manage - Red Sea Utd?

[Blue Since 76]

So we have Pardew, Mcleish, Moses, Warnock, Bruce, did i miss someone?

Hughes. Used to spend the week before the derby saying how good the rags were then we'd go out and look scared to death. Wonder why?

Ted, you're right the rags are much, much worse than they have been over the last 10 years or more. However they're still dangerous in the league as they know how to win games. As has been pointed out, that has a lot to do with teams believing they can't win before they play them. From the few batterings they gave over the years, a lot of teams will accept a 1-0 as everyone's going to lose at the swamp anyway, so why risk your goal difference. Some day, teams will stop being petrified and results like ours and Newcastle's today will start that. What it really needs though is a few teams to take their chances - Norwich, Swansea etc and the teams who are capable of beating them - Spurs in particular, to actually try.

[kinkylola]

Looked very average against toon, and toon were nothing special either... They just went out and tried to play their game and put pressure on the rags. One of the first teams I've seen in a long time to actually close down the rags, an it worked well. I would have pulled off Gutierrez at HT, he was having a mare, though he did save that goal.

Newcastle didn't do anything special, krul did have a very good game, but he is a good keeper.

If you go at this rag team without fear, they can be broken down, they can fall apart. You can argue against that with stats if you like ... But stats can be made to say whatever you want, actual observable data is much preferable.

To me it's obvious that Ted & others are right, the people arguing against them are coming off as scum apologists, and it stinks.

My 2c

[PeterParker]

Never liked call him Moyes, he looks like a Moses. Too bad he writes his tactics on a stone tablet.

[Blue Since 76]

Looked very average against toon, and toon were nothing special either... They just went out and tried to play their game and put pressure on the rags. One of the first teams I've seen in a long time to actually close down the rags, an it worked well. I would have pulled off Gutierrez at HT, he was having a mare, though he did save that goal.

Newcastle didn't do anything special, krul did have a very good game, but he is a good keeper.

If you go at this rag team without fear, they can be broken down, they can fall apart. You can argue against that with stats if you like ... But stats can be made to say whatever you want, actual observable data is much preferable.

To me it's obvious that Ted & others are right, the people arguing against them are coming off as scum apologists, and it stinks.

My 2c

Depends on the question:

Are the rags worse now than they were a few years ago? Undoubtedly and I'm sure all the tags would agree as well

Will the rags still finish in the top three?
Undoubtedly and probably in the top two at worst. The reasons for that are varied, but I still believe if we finish above them, we'll win the league.

You can say they're shit if you want, and at times they definitely look it, but the only real way to judge is at the end of the season. If they win the league and we're second, who was the better side? The one who scored the most goals, looked the most exciting, had the best players or the one who won the league? I know which one I'd take right now.