FFP to breach European Sports Law?

[Original Dub]

There will only be a challenge if someone is sanctioned, and I reckon UEFA will pick their targets carefully.

But we know why this shit is really being brought in. Would targeting smaller clubs not defeat the purpose?

[walshawblue]

Taken from the Wall St Journal and written by a nobody.Seems to be the opposite of what the experts on here say maybe we should pooh pooh it.

it was written by this guy who was part of bringing in the bosman ruling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Louis_Dupont

[BlueinBosnia]

Does not matter that Russia is not in the eu. If they operate in the eu or in his case a uefa competition that Russia takes part in they still can if they wish take the legal route.

But UEFA is not headquartered in the EU, either. From this angle, couldn't it be viewed that UEFA competitions are non-EU matters which EU member states opt to participate in? I think UEFA tried to go down this route once before in regard to quotas from home nations, but failed wrt EU member states, but succeeded with non-EU countries (which is why Dzeko is not considered homegrown, but Nasri is).

[Alex Sapphire]

It will have to be someone else who challenges this (and Russians would be perfect).

UEFA = Headquartered in Nyon, Switzerland
Russia = in Russia
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't seem to provide the ideal circumstances in which to challenge EU law...

who's talking about challenging EU law?

Sorry, misworded. But surely, as that article is talking about EU Law and the ECJ, and both Russia and Switzerland are outside of the jurisdiction of both, it would be a bit of a farce a Russian (or any non-EU) club trying to fight FFP on the grounds of EU competition and freedom of movement of services laws? Or am I totally missing something?

not a bad point, but I think after Bosman and with the weight of evidence that UEFA is desperate to secure the pre-approval of the EU for this initiative, UEFA is clearly governed by European law (whether voluntarily or unavoidably I don't know).
It says here that only 60% of its member federations are in the EU, so clubs that are outside of the EU may choose to test the validity of European law, but I think the likelier scenario (or at least the one being discussed) is of an owner relying on EU law to show that UEFA is out of line.
I was speculating that a Russian owner (and I spose that is currently a list of one) rather than someone from the Middle east could do us all a favour as they will suffer less reputational damage (having a bad reputation already).

[Nigels Tackle]

European club football is characterized by numerous competitive imbalances: between clubs competing in UEFA competitions, between the domestic leagues of different countries, and between individual clubs in those leagues. Often the key determinant of a club's financial strength is the size of its domestic market and the commercial realities that apply within it—competing in the English Premier League will always be more lucrative than in its Scottish counterpart. As a result, the leading clubs of smaller countries such as Luxembourg or Ireland will always be at a disadvantage next to the leading clubs of bigger markets.

The break-even rule makes no allowance for the commercial disparities between individual national leagues, which means smaller clubs are hit harder, proportionately, than larger ones. Without the ability to invest in their longer-term success, smaller clubs will stay small. This is clearly anticompetitive.

ffp is simply the precursor to a european superleague or leagues....

my guess is that our owners will be very happy with that outcome

[Alex Sapphire]

European club football is characterized by numerous competitive imbalances: between clubs competing in UEFA competitions, between the domestic leagues of different countries, and between individual clubs in those leagues. Often the key determinant of a club's financial strength is the size of its domestic market and the commercial realities that apply within it—competing in the English Premier League will always be more lucrative than in its Scottish counterpart. As a result, the leading clubs of smaller countries such as Luxembourg or Ireland will always be at a disadvantage next to the leading clubs of bigger markets.

The break-even rule makes no allowance for the commercial disparities between individual national leagues, which means smaller clubs are hit harder, proportionately, than larger ones. Without the ability to invest in their longer-term success, smaller clubs will stay small. This is clearly anticompetitive.

UEFA's response to DuPont:

"UEFA is aware that there are large differences between the comparative wealth of different clubs and countries, but financial fair play does not have financial equality as its objective."

[BlueinBosnia]

I was speculating that a Russian owner (and I spose that is currently a list of one) rather than someone from the Middle east could do us all a favour as they will suffer less reputational damage (having a bad reputation already).

Ah, you were talking about owners, rather than the clubs themselves. My bad - I thought you were implying someone like Anzhi or Zenit should pick up the mantle and fight against FFP. My bad.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

There will only be a challenge if someone is sanctioned, and I reckon UEFA will pick their targets carefully.

But we know why this shit is really being brought in. Would targeting smaller clubs not defeat the purpose?

I was thinking in terms of what transgressions they will sanction, rather than clubs.

[carl_feedthegoat]

There will only be a challenge if someone is sanctioned, and I reckon UEFA will pick their targets carefully.

They cannot as it will be discrimination - the FFP will fall flat on its face in one form or other...just like the Bosman ruling did to the powers that be (Which I have mentioned before).

[Rag_hater]

European club football is characterized by numerous competitive imbalances: between clubs competing in UEFA competitions, between the domestic leagues of different countries, and between individual clubs in those leagues. Often the key determinant of a club's financial strength is the size of its domestic market and the commercial realities that apply within it—competing in the English Premier League will always be more lucrative than in its Scottish counterpart. As a result, the leading clubs of smaller countries such as Luxembourg or Ireland will always be at a disadvantage next to the leading clubs of bigger markets.

The break-even rule makes no allowance for the commercial disparities between individual national leagues, which means smaller clubs are hit harder, proportionately, than larger ones. Without the ability to invest in their longer-term success, smaller clubs will stay small. This is clearly anticompetitive.

ffp is simply the precursor to a european superleague or leagues....

my guess is that our owners will be very happy with that outcome

Think the CL is already a European Superleague but just not called that and I don't think PSG or Juve or all the small clubs around Europe would give up the chance of being champs in their own countries in the hope of winninin a league with Barça and Real in it.

[Im_Spartacus]

Well I agree with part of that, I think we would be happier to let somebody else take it on.
But let's not forget that we were quite public in our opposition to it being introduced in the Premier League.
We could easily present it as a battle for fairness in sport and for the smaller clubs with ambition.

Disagree with you there mate

What happens with European ffp is of little interest to smaller clubs

What happens in the premier league is dictated by owners self interest, not necessarily ambition. For many clubs simply being in the premier league is enough, and premier league ffp goes a long way to making that profitable by reducing the costs of participation, increasing the amount owners can trouser

I'm afraid we have very little support because the smaller clubs, including the likes of Everton who we all assume would be hardest hit by ffp stopping them finally reaching 4th place with consistency, te fact is that the owner isn't interested in competing in the CL because of the cost needed to get there. He is happy with his 6-10 position every ear and the money comes with it.

[gillie]

Well I agree with part of that, I think we would be happier to let somebody else take it on.
But let's not forget that we were quite public in our opposition to it being introduced in the Premier League.
We could easily present it as a battle for fairness in sport and for the smaller clubs with ambition.

Disagree with you there mate

What happens with European ffp is of little interest to smaller clubs

What happens in the premier league is dictated by owners self interest, not necessarily ambition. For many clubs simply being in the premier league is enough, and premier league ffp goes a long way to making that profitable by reducing the costs of participation, increasing the amount owners can trouser

I'm afraid we have very little support because the smaller clubs, including the likes of Everton who we all assume would be hardest hit by ffp stopping them finally reaching 4th place with consistency, te fact is that the owner isn't interested in competing in the CL because of the cost needed to get there. He is happy with his 6-10 position every ear and the money comes with it.

Yeah the rags and co certainly worked this one out before implementing it.

[Dameerto]

If anyone challenges it I'm fairly sure it will be PSG, I'm equally sure we are prepared to take a legal route if forced into it (even though we would rather comply or at least 'move towards compliance'), and considering we have hired two of the people who developed the system of FFP for Platini plus we have increased our legal expertise on the board I think we are more than capable of arguing our case.

[Bluez]

If anyone challenges it I'm fairly sure it will be PSG, I'm equally sure we are prepared to take a legal route if forced into it (even though we would rather comply or at least 'move towards compliance'), and considering we have hired two of the people who developed the system of FFP for Platini plus we have increased our legal expertise on the board I think we are more than capable of arguing our case.

Its got to be PSG. Not only does their 125 mil Qatar sponsorship deal, not include things like logos on shirts, but it was retrospectively back dated a year. So they gave 125 mil to cover a year when there name was mentioned nowhere. If that gets through FFP it would be a joke

[Socrates]

If anyone challenges it I'm fairly sure it will be PSG, I'm equally sure we are prepared to take a legal route if forced into it (even though we would rather comply or at least 'move towards compliance'), and considering we have hired two of the people who developed the system of FFP for Platini plus we have increased our legal expertise on the board I think we are more than capable of arguing our case.

Its got to be PSG. Not only does their 125 mil Qatar sponsorship deal, not include things like logos on shirts, but it was retrospectively back dated a year. So they gave 125 mil to cover a year when there name was mentioned nowhere. If that gets through FFP it would be a joke

Point is, if it gets through FFP then whoever just misses out on Champions League will surely challenge it? Either way I can see PSG being the catalyst.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

If anyone challenges it I'm fairly sure it will be PSG, I'm equally sure we are prepared to take a legal route if forced into it (even though we would rather comply or at least 'move towards compliance'), and considering we have hired two of the people who developed the system of FFP for Platini plus we have increased our legal expertise on the board I think we are more than capable of arguing our case.

Its got to be PSG. Not only does their 125 mil Qatar sponsorship deal, not include things like logos on shirts, but it was retrospectively back dated a year. So they gave 125 mil to cover a year when there name was mentioned nowhere. If that gets through FFP it would be a joke

Point is, if it gets through FFP then whoever just misses out on Champions League will surely challenge it? Either way I can see PSG being the catalyst.

Ooh, sneaky, I didn't think of that. I wonder what Monsieur Platini subalterne will make of that if it happens?

[Rag_hater]

If anyone challenges it I'm fairly sure it will be PSG, I'm equally sure we are prepared to take a legal route if forced into it (even though we would rather comply or at least 'move towards compliance'), and considering we have hired two of the people who developed the system of FFP for Platini plus we have increased our legal expertise on the board I think we are more than capable of arguing our case.

Its got to be PSG. Not only does their 125 mil Qatar sponsorship deal, not include things like logos on shirts, but it was retrospectively back dated a year. So they gave 125 mil to cover a year when there name was mentioned nowhere. If that gets through FFP it would be a joke

Point is, if it gets through FFP then whoever just misses out on Champions League will surely challenge it? Either way I can see PSG being the catalyst.

Ooh, sneaky, I didn't think of that. I wonder what Monsieur Platini subalterne will make of that if it happens?

If they can find a court to listen to it.

[BlueinBosnia]

Its got to be PSG. Not only does their 125 mil Qatar sponsorship deal, not include things like logos on shirts, but it was retrospectively back dated a year. So they gave 125 mil to cover a year when there name was mentioned nowhere. If that gets through FFP it would be a joke

That is madness. Incidentally, what happens to any cash a club earns, but isn't includable for FFP? Is it essentially a massive Xmas Party kitty, or would it be spent a few years down the line, or on wages, etc. of non-CL squad players?

[Wooders]

the thing about FFP is it is just going to lead to even more corruption and brown paper bagging - it's pretty ludicrous if you ask me

[avoidconfusion]

How fucking funny would it be if the EJC turns around and takes a big shit on UEFA and the FFPR .