Soriano

[Mark Garrett]

Ted, I was at Eastlands for the league game and Wigan were the better side and they deserved at least a point and quite possibly all 3. A brilliant Tevez goal got us out of jail.

That game though I read that we had just put in 2 very good performances against United and Chelsea and it was very much a case of after the Lord Mayors show.

My point about the FA Cup Final still stands though. The comparison to Chelsea with Benitez and their final does not stand up to scrutiny as the title he was given was Interim Manager, probably explains some erratic performances and results through his tenure. The Mancini situation at the time was different as it seemed quite likely he would be given another season to not only regain the title but progress to the knockout situation. The mass rumour mill that went into overdrive with all media outlets over in the 24 hours beforehand and on the morning of the game - it was quite surprising particularly in the lead-up to our biggest game of the season.

Do not want to us ever be in the situation again where our manager is standing on the touchline at Wembley with that cloud over him. The fact that City fans beforehand were quite flat and all discussion was on that situation rather than the excitement of a cup final day, a trophy, wembley to me just made the day even more of a let down. That was before the game even started.

Well it's true that we had just turned in two very good performances but how many times do we drop our standards against lesser teams ?

When I saw the way we played v Wigan, I figured that a repeat in the final would lose us the game & my hope was that usually Bob has been very good in the big cup games. They have mostly been against 'big' teams though. Losing to Wigan in the Cup Final was not the surprise some are making it out to be.

It was a surprise because as you say Mancini was always very good at getting us win big matches across his reign and also his record against Wigan was impeccable, think that was the first goal we had even conceded against them under Mancini.

Overall though this is the Soriano thread and I have had my say on him, the other Spaniard and Khaldoon. To me their chasing of Pellegrini was naive and not very street-wise considering their reputations of professionalism, they messed up the build-up to the Cup Final, they treated the sacking of Mancini poorly, the Soriano interview last week contradicts himself throughout and worryingly we seem to be heading down a Chelsea route, which is completely wrong. Also we are appointing a manager whose record is inferior to the outgoing one.

Time will tell on Pellegrini and I hope he does well, we need to act swiftly in the transfer market and Soriano and Bergistain need to redeem themselves and deliver in their respective roles. Nothing further to add.

Was it naive of Bob to be lining up a job at Monaco last season after he'd fucked it up at Arsenal? And how did the players react to that uncertainty?

End of the day we can go round and round in circles, we will have to agree to disagree. I understand your point but I completely disagree and my viewpoint will not change over who was to blame for the FA Cup Final defeat - it was largely down to three directors in my view. You disagree, that's fine.

You were there at Wembley and left with one impression. I was there at Wembley and left with a different impression, I know what I heard, saw and spoke with several other City fans during the day both pre-match and post-match for where the blame lied for that day.

[JamieMCFC]

According to Dan Taylor in the Guardian Mr. Martinez doesn't represent any player.

Begiristain was seen with Jesús Martínez, the agent representing Manuel Pellegrini, in Madrid on Monday. However Martínez also represents the Málaga midfielder Isco, who may be a summer target."I hope that he had good dinner," Mancini said. "I don't know why they met. You should ask these questions to Txiki not me. It's not important for me."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013 ... ity-malaga

http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/m ... es-everton

2nd and 3rd paragraph mate.

We could do this all day. Here is one from the BBC 7 days after the one you posted 6 down in the article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22501572

[Foreverinbluedreams]

According to Dan Taylor in the Guardian Mr. Martinez doesn't represent any player.

Begiristain was seen with Jesús Martínez, the agent representing Manuel Pellegrini, in Madrid on Monday. However Martínez also represents the Málaga midfielder Isco, who may be a summer target."I hope that he had good dinner," Mancini said. "I don't know why they met. You should ask these questions to Txiki not me. It's not important for me."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013 ... ity-malaga

http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/m ... es-everton

2nd and 3rd paragraph mate.

We could do this all day. Here is one from the BBC 7 days after the one you posted 6 down in the article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22501572

We could pal but I'd rather not, especially given the fact that Isco is represented by his father and a lawyer called Rafael Comino.

[Ted Hughes]

According to Dan Taylor in the Guardian Mr. Martinez doesn't represent any player.

Begiristain was seen with Jesús Martínez, the agent representing Manuel Pellegrini, in Madrid on Monday. However Martínez also represents the Málaga midfielder Isco, who may be a summer target."I hope that he had good dinner," Mancini said. "I don't know why they met. You should ask these questions to Txiki not me. It's not important for me."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013 ... ity-malaga

http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/m ... es-everton

2nd and 3rd paragraph mate.

Just as a matter of interest, has Txiki met any other manager's agents in public since he came to the club or indeed managers themselves, & has Mancini's agent met any representatives of other clubs, or has Mancini himself met any representatives of other clubs in public ?

[Foreverinbluedreams]

According to Dan Taylor in the Guardian Mr. Martinez doesn't represent any player.

Begiristain was seen with Jesús Martínez, the agent representing Manuel Pellegrini, in Madrid on Monday. However Martínez also represents the Málaga midfielder Isco, who may be a summer target."I hope that he had good dinner," Mancini said. "I don't know why they met. You should ask these questions to Txiki not me. It's not important for me."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013 ... ity-malaga

http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/m ... es-everton

2nd and 3rd paragraph mate.

Just as a matter of interest, has Txiki met any other manager's agents in public since he came to the club or indeed managers themselves, & has Mancini's agent met any representatives of other clubs, or has Mancini himself met any representatives of other clubs in public ?

Not that I'm aware of, I'm sure he has met others but did it in private, as I'm sure is the case for Mancini and his agent too.

Public meetings just add fuel to the media fire and undermine the manager in the case of Txiki's meeting, so best avoided.

[Ted Hughes]

According to Dan Taylor in the Guardian Mr. Martinez doesn't represent any player.

Begiristain was seen with Jesús Martínez, the agent representing Manuel Pellegrini, in Madrid on Monday. However Martínez also represents the Málaga midfielder Isco, who may be a summer target."I hope that he had good dinner," Mancini said. "I don't know why they met. You should ask these questions to Txiki not me. It's not important for me."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013 ... ity-malaga

http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/m ... es-everton

2nd and 3rd paragraph mate.

Just as a matter of interest, has Txiki met any other manager's agents in public since he came to the club or indeed managers themselves, & has Mancini's agent met any representatives of other clubs, or has Mancini himself met any representatives of other clubs in public ?

Not that I'm aware of, I'm sure he has met others but did it in private, as I'm sure is the case for Mancini and his agent too.

Public meetings just add fuel to the media fire and undermine the manager in the case of Txiki's meeting, so best avoided.

Bit of a loaded question tbf, as Mancini has met with people on several occasions, including actually travelling to Milan HQ to meet Slimeball Frogface, a few weeks before signing his 5 year City deal.

Then the season starts & he's at loggerheads with Balotelli til Christmas, then Balotelli signs for...Milan.

This kind of stuff is happening all the time. It' just that Barca have stitched us up on this particular instance.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Bit of a loaded question tbf, as Mancini has met with people on several occasions, including actually travelling to Milan HQ to meet Slimeball Frogface, a few weeks before signing his 5 year City deal.

Then the season starts & he's at loggerheads with Balotelli til Christmas, then Balotelli signs for...Milan.

This kind of stuff is happening all the time. It' just that Barca have stitched us up on this particular instance.

Exactly. Bob talking to Monaco was hardly a complete secret.

Blaming the higher management for the Cup Final defeat is absolutely ridiculous. It looks slightly desperate on the part of the people who won't hear a word said against Bob.

[john68]

Piccs,
FFS, Mancini has gone, can't you put the issue down.

It seems that there are no shades of grey in what your attitude. You absolutely hated Mancini and we got the message absolutely ages ago. We all understood that in your World everything bad was Mancini's fault. You were still blaming for his tactics in one game over 2 years after it was played and using it to hammer him.

Now it seems you are bouncing up and down with excitement about the new possible regime. It all seems so over the top and extreme.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Piccs,
FFS, Mancini has gone, can't you put the issue down.

It seems that there are no shades of grey in what your attitude. You absolutely hated Mancini and we got the message absolutely ages ago. We all understood that in your World everything bad was Mancini's fault. You were still blaming for his tactics in one game over 2 years after it was played and using it to hammer him.

Now it seems you are bouncing up and down with excitement about the new possible regime. It all seems so over the top and extreme.

Well as a matter of fact I liked Mancini's public persona.
And yes I will continue to point out the hypocrisy of posters and their vacuous arguement seeking to blame higher management for our cup final non performance.
And yes I am excited at the prospect of a new manager hopefully playing bold entertaoning football.
And just a point, that performance was a clear signal of Mancini's mindset. It was not one performance in isolation as he often reverted to negative scared tactics. It was a pointer towards what was to come under his guidance.

[john68]

See....you just can't put it down.

I give up mate....Back to the coffin...this time with the lid down...You must really have soe major issue with this...I'll leave with you til you find your next victim.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

See....you just can't put it down.

I give up mate....Back to the coffin...this time with the lid down...You must really have soe major issue with this...I'll leave with you til you find your next victim.

Blimey John. We have that many people on here who talk of remembering our history and where we have come from, you yourself did an excellent series on our title win in 68, and there is a thread dedicated to thanking Mancini in the Italian press. And yet you don't think I should discuss something so important, that happened so recently.
You are a tough taskmaster .

[john68]

Piccs,
Whilst acknowledging you post Mate, it would be pointless attempting to use rational argument with you.

I do however FULLY EXPECT you to be as one-eyed and as imbalanced in your future critiques of our new regime. It would only be right and proper for you to use EXACTLY the same consistent negative attitude to define your opinion.

...and we know that you are a fair man mate...:-)

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Piccs,
Whilst acknowledging you post Mate, it would be pointless attempting to use rational argument with you.

I do however FULLY EXPECT you to be as one-eyed and as imbalanced in your future critiques of our new regime. It would only be right and proper for you to use EXACTLY the same consistent negative attitude to define your opinion.

...and we know that you are a fair man mate...:-)

John. You forget one thing. I was right ;-)

[Im_Spartacus]

John. You forget one thing. I was right ;-)

Please don't let that get in the way of Johns attempts to belittle you, it's quite fun watching John write whilst trying to hide his bitterness (it comes though in the use of SHOUTING John) that once again he was wrong about a manager, and also wrong about how the top brass would deal with it.

We really shouldnt turn this into a 'i was right, you were wrong' issue, but at the end of the day John, some of us, capable of independent thought, took a view about the manager based on what we saw on the pitch. We might have had a hunch that things weren't right, we might have had a hunch that Mancini wasn't the right man for us - we might have had that for the wrong reasons, in fact we could have been entirely wrong, but in the end (on this occasion), it turned out that many of the perceptions we had were actually not too wide of the mark.

Just because that was the case with the last manager, doesn't mean that any of us are automatically predisposed to find fault in a new manager, but when the new manager makes mistakes, I for one will let that mistake slide a few times as part of a learning process, but if it keeps happening, I will criticise it to the extent that of it keeps on and keeps on happening, and that is holding the club back from fulfilling its potential, eventually, yes, I will turn against the manager and don't see in any way why that should considered unreasonable.

So the criteria are simple, learn from your mistakes and take the club in the right direction. If you can't, you're clearly not the manager we hoped you would be.

You no doubt will excuse the next managers shortcomings no matter how obvious, as you did with Hughes, as you did with Mancini. Not on any rational fact driven basis - but solely on the basis that he is our manager and should be supported regardless of mistakes - the sort of logic you find in a personality cult.

Each to their own mate, but the posts you are making now, have the exact same condescending 'look at me i'm clever' tone you dished out to 'rag hater' 3.5 years ago because he disagreed with your point of view, and as then, its making you come across as a bit of a cunt, as did the 'I wasnt talking to you' effort the other day because someone else had the temerity to reply to your opinions, which was one of the most cringeworthy posts I've ever seen on any forum to be honest.

I know from the time i've been on here that you're not a cunt, but fuck me you've been hard work these last few weeks.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

This is extremely juvenile. I was right na na na na na.

Just as a matter of interest Piccs and Spartacus, how long ago did you decide that Mancini wasn't up to it?

[Im_Spartacus]

This is extremely juvenile. I was right na na na na na.

Just as a matter of interest Piccs and Spartacus, how long ago did you decide that Mancini wasn't up to it?

Both piccs and I have explained many times why we felt the way we have, if you want to search for it. I'm not going to type it all again and spam onto another thread if you missed it, and i'm not going to get into a debate about the rights and wrongs of Mancini on this thread either.

My post has fuck all to do with that anyway mate, John has form for spitting his dummy out over people who have a different view to his own, and so to try and save face when he's found to be wrong, he attacks those who disagree with him, as he has done on virtually every post directed at piccs in the last 6 months. He did it over Hughes, when I called him out as trying to be an intellectual bully with his condescending attitude to another poster, he's done it over Mancini, and he's also doing the same with cuntish posts talking down to people who disagree with him over Soriano and Tricky.

Most people laugh it off a 'good old John' - and to be honest I don't think he does it intentionally, but some of the posts recently have been nasty, personal and uncalled for, and its repeating a pattern that happened when Hughes was sacked, a pattern I find particularly unpleasant.

But back on topic, if the new manager shows the same inability to learn from their mistakes, and repeats them again and again and again, I'll take the same view. If he makes mistakes and we get twatted 5.0, but shows he's learned from that, good on him. If he doesn't learn from them, are we not just stuck with the same sort of stubborn ass we have just parted company with - in which case why the fuck would we want to keep him?

I'm just glad that the club have seen that appointing a new manager shouldn't involve throwing the baby out with the bath water, and that the approach is that the club will have stability whoever the head coach happens to be at the time, allowing us to be very flexible with appointment of managers/head coaches, and build a squad that ANY manager who employs a similar football philosophy to the club, should have a decent chance of success.

If they don't, move on to the next one with a minimum of disruption - because as we have seen with Mancini, bringing success to the club doesn't necessarily prove you have all the tools to do the job, and the time eventually will come for you to move on - and its about that transition being as simple as possible in the future, not just for stability, but for FFP and the endless turnover of players that changing managers generally brings with it.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

This is extremely juvenile. I was right na na na na na.

Just as a matter of interest Piccs and Spartacus, how long ago did you decide that Mancini wasn't up to it?

Both piccs and I have explained many times why we felt the way we have, if you want to search for it. I'm not going to type it all again and spam onto another thread if you missed it, and i'm not going to get into a debate about the rights and wrongs of Mancini on this thread either.

My post has fuck all to do with that anyway mate, John has form for spitting his dummy out over people who have a different view to his own, and so to try and save face when he's found to be wrong, he attacks those who disagree with him, as he has done on virtually every post directed at piccs in the last 6 months. He did it over Hughes, when I called him out as trying to be an intellectual bully with his condescending attitude to another poster, he's done it over Mancini, and he's also doing the same with cuntish posts talking down to people who disagree with him over Soriano and Tricky.

Most people laugh it off a 'good old John' - and to be honest I don't think he does it intentionally, but some of the posts recently have been nasty, personal and uncalled for, and its repeating a pattern that happened when Hughes was sacked, a pattern I find particularly unpleasant.

But back on topic, if the new manager shows the same inability to learn from their mistakes, and repeats them again and again and again, I'll take the same view. If he makes mistakes and we get twatted 5.0, but shows he's learned from that, good on him. If he doesn't learn from them, are we not just stuck with the same sort of stubborn ass we have just parted company with - in which case why the fuck would we want to keep him?

I'm just glad that the club have seen that appointing a new manager shouldn't involve throwing the baby out with the bath water, and that the approach is that the club will have stability whoever the head coach happens to be at the time, allowing us to be very flexible with appointment of managers/head coaches, and build a squad that ANY manager who employs a similar football philosophy to the club, should have a decent chance of success.

If they don't, move on to the next one with a minimum of disruption - because as we have seen with Mancini, bringing success to the club doesn't necessarily prove you have all the tools to do the job, and the time eventually will come for you to move on - and its about that transition being as simple as possible in the future, not just for stability, but for FFP and the endless turnover of players that changing managers generally brings with it.

All that and you didn't answer my question.

[Im_Spartacus]

This is extremely juvenile. I was right na na na na na.

Just as a matter of interest Piccs and Spartacus, how long ago did you decide that Mancini wasn't up to it?

Both piccs and I have explained many times why we felt the way we have, if you want to search for it. I'm not going to type it all again and spam onto another thread if you missed it, and i'm not going to get into a debate about the rights and wrongs of Mancini on this thread either.

My post has fuck all to do with that anyway mate, John has form for spitting his dummy out over people who have a different view to his own, and so to try and save face when he's found to be wrong, he attacks those who disagree with him, as he has done on virtually every post directed at piccs in the last 6 months. He did it over Hughes, when I called him out as trying to be an intellectual bully with his condescending attitude to another poster, he's done it over Mancini, and he's also doing the same with cuntish posts talking down to people who disagree with him over Soriano and Tricky.

Most people laugh it off a 'good old John' - and to be honest I don't think he does it intentionally, but some of the posts recently have been nasty, personal and uncalled for, and its repeating a pattern that happened when Hughes was sacked, a pattern I find particularly unpleasant.

But back on topic, if the new manager shows the same inability to learn from their mistakes, and repeats them again and again and again, I'll take the same view. If he makes mistakes and we get twatted 5.0, but shows he's learned from that, good on him. If he doesn't learn from them, are we not just stuck with the same sort of stubborn ass we have just parted company with - in which case why the fuck would we want to keep him?

I'm just glad that the club have seen that appointing a new manager shouldn't involve throwing the baby out with the bath water, and that the approach is that the club will have stability whoever the head coach happens to be at the time, allowing us to be very flexible with appointment of managers/head coaches, and build a squad that ANY manager who employs a similar football philosophy to the club, should have a decent chance of success.

If they don't, move on to the next one with a minimum of disruption - because as we have seen with Mancini, bringing success to the club doesn't necessarily prove you have all the tools to do the job, and the time eventually will come for you to move on - and its about that transition being as simple as possible in the future, not just for stability, but for FFP and the endless turnover of players that changing managers generally brings with it.

All that and you didn't answer my question.

You blind?

[Foreverinbluedreams]

This is extremely juvenile. I was right na na na na na.

Just as a matter of interest Piccs and Spartacus, how long ago did you decide that Mancini wasn't up to it?

Both piccs and I have explained many times why we felt the way we have, if you want to search for it. I'm not going to type it all again and spam onto another thread if you missed it, and i'm not going to get into a debate about the rights and wrongs of Mancini on this thread either.

My post has fuck all to do with that anyway mate, John has form for spitting his dummy out over people who have a different view to his own, and so to try and save face when he's found to be wrong, he attacks those who disagree with him, as he has done on virtually every post directed at piccs in the last 6 months. He did it over Hughes, when I called him out as trying to be an intellectual bully with his condescending attitude to another poster, he's done it over Mancini, and he's also doing the same with cuntish posts talking down to people who disagree with him over Soriano and Tricky.

Most people laugh it off a 'good old John' - and to be honest I don't think he does it intentionally, but some of the posts recently have been nasty, personal and uncalled for, and its repeating a pattern that happened when Hughes was sacked, a pattern I find particularly unpleasant.

But back on topic, if the new manager shows the same inability to learn from their mistakes, and repeats them again and again and again, I'll take the same view. If he makes mistakes and we get twatted 5.0, but shows he's learned from that, good on him. If he doesn't learn from them, are we not just stuck with the same sort of stubborn ass we have just parted company with - in which case why the fuck would we want to keep him?

I'm just glad that the club have seen that appointing a new manager shouldn't involve throwing the baby out with the bath water, and that the approach is that the club will have stability whoever the head coach happens to be at the time, allowing us to be very flexible with appointment of managers/head coaches, and build a squad that ANY manager who employs a similar football philosophy to the club, should have a decent chance of success.

If they don't, move on to the next one with a minimum of disruption - because as we have seen with Mancini, bringing success to the club doesn't necessarily prove you have all the tools to do the job, and the time eventually will come for you to move on - and its about that transition being as simple as possible in the future, not just for stability, but for FFP and the endless turnover of players that changing managers generally brings with it.

All that and you didn't answer my question.

You blind?

Nope, perfect vision apart from a touch of colour blindness.

Still can't see where you answered how long ago it was that you decided Mancini wasn't up to it.

[Im_Spartacus]

Nope, perfect vision apart from a touch of colour blindness.

Still can't see where you answered how long ago it was that you decided Mancini wasn't up to it.

Which bit if the first paragraph of my post did you not understand.

The bit where I told you i'd gone over it many times, to search for it, or that I'm not spamming another thread with Mancini rubbish?

Because I thought I'd been fairly clear that you can search for the answer yourself.